European "Battlegroups"

8.12 EU-Verteidigungsminister: "MILITARY CAPABILITY COMMITMENT"- Konferenz am 22.11.2004 in Brüssel - Erklärungen zu:


I. DECLARATION ON EUROPEAN MILITARY CAPABILITIES
II. EU BATTLEGROUP COMMITMENTS
III. EUROPEAN CAPABILITY ACTION PLAN (ECAP) EVALUATION
IV. GLOBAL APPROACH ON DEPLOYABILITY


Brüssel, 22 November 2004

Vorbemerkung der Redaktion:


Quelle: 1. Bundesministerium der Verteidigung, Homepage; 2. Europäische Union, Homepage, Stand: 23.11.2004

www.sicherheitspolitik.bundeswehr.de...








whats your opinion on that topic?

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Well, this EU battlegroup has potential but why limit it to a Euro-Battlegroup design why not go global with it:


Should the UN be Militarized

This is a idea that came up in ATS chat from talk about the new EU battlegroups:


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eg terrorist militia attack a city in Eastern Europe, the German/Norwegian battlegroup responds, supported by the UK/French Battlegroup

note: its best not to quote so much, quote the first part then provide a link to the rest. Also its best to state your opinion when asking other people what theirs is.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by UK Wizard]

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Well, this EU battlegroup has potential but why limit it to a Euro-Battlegroup design why not go global with it:

maybe cuz its about getting a military for the european union?

just think of each US State would have an own military, really uneffictive, why should it be here like that then?

the battlegroups shall be the base for an european military.


the UN Forces like you describe them are a different topic, but I see nothing wrong with them, maybe you make an own topic for this!

Originally posted by Wodan
maybe cuz its about getting a military for the european union?

And why does the EU need its own military?

just think of each US State would have an own military, really uneffictive, why should it be here like that then?

Last time i checked the EU was made of countries and not states

Originally posted by UK Wizard
And why does the EU need its own military?

Because they want to consolidate their militaries into a single effective force, thereby eliminating redunancies and increasing their strength and efficiency at a very affordable cost. Think of it this way- what if America had several independent militaries using 3 or more different kinds of main battle tank. That would be really expensive because none of the three models is being made at full production and that increases the unit cost.

So, if the EU consolidates its military and standardizes its hardware it will reduce costs. It will also maximize cooperation across borders. For example, if France and Belgium had been in close cooperation in WWII the Germans couldn't have just walked around the Maginot Line. The Europeans want to make sure that in the distant future some madman can't do the equivalent to their continent.

just think of each US State would have an own military, really uneffictive, why should it be here like that then?

Last time i checked the EU was made of countries and not states

Forgive my arrogance, but the EU is made of countries the size of US states.
Seriously, they are integrating- the EU will one day be a single country, and they will be better off for it. They have to keep taking the next step. Free trade, one currency, one military, one foreign policy, eventually one identity and one nation.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by The Vagabond]

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by UK Wizard
And why does the EU need its own military?

Because they want to consolidate their militaries into a single effective force, thereby eliminating redunancies and increasing their strength and efficiency at a very affordable cost. Think of it this way- what if America had several independent militaries using 3 or more different kinds of main battle tank. That would be really expensive because none of the three models is being made at full production and that increases the unit cost.

So, if the EU consolidates its military and standardizes its hardware it will reduce costs. It will also maximize cooperation across borders. For example, if France and Belgium had been in close cooperation in WWII the Germans couldn't have just walked around the Maginot Line. The Europeans want to make sure that in the distant future some madman can't do the equivalent to their continent.

just think of each US State would have an own military, really uneffictive, why should it be here like that then?

Last time i checked the EU was made of countries and not states

Forgive my arrogance, but the EU is made of countries the size of US states.

Seriously, they are integrating- the EU will one day be a single country, and they will be better off for it. They have to keep taking the next step. Free trade, one currency, one military, one foreign policy, eventually one identity and one nation.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by The Vagabond]

I agree, in my opinion, it should be more federal than the USA, more like Germany or even Swizerland or Belgium, different cultures and languages should be kept, we have to be also our own european nation, and not like the USA, and as it seems we also dont want to be like them:

EU motto is: In varietate concordia (united in the diversity)
US motto is: E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One)

EU wants to keep the different really nice and old cultures and languages,
USA made itself to one almost homogenous nation, still federal but the differences arent that big...

Also if they work as one nation, you could have each doing its own bit. For example, you could have one nation who focuses on the building of a strong Navy and the technology to go with it, while another focuses on air, so on and so fourth.

You could also mix the existing technology and training and make a much stronger and more capable armed forced.

This in turn would make it 'cheaper' for each country and in turn boost their armed forces encase of an attack from any outside nation.

Attention! When posting someone else's work, post only a paragraph and then a link.

When quoting, quote only what is necessary. If your quote is longer than your remark, you are looking for a formal warning!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Attention! When posting someone else's work, post only a paragraph and then a link.

When quoting, quote only what is necessary. If your quote is longer than your remark, you are looking for a formal warning!

why do you cut the other quote and the link below of it, totally away, bring it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now there is a quote of one thing, and a link to another, why do you do those things????

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Wodan]

Aw, did I make a boo-boo in repairing your violations? Sorry. Go to your history and bring it back.

If you don't violate, I don't have to edit. If I don't have to edit, I can read and enjoy the place, too.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Aw, did I make a boo-boo in repairing your violations? Sorry. Go to your history and bring it back.

If you don't violate, I don't have to edit. If I don't have to edit, I can read and enjoy the place, too.

but you wanted to make it right way, its even not wanted here, to give one quote, and a link to another page as source, so you byself violted rules here!

You know, I can fix it. It is very simple. I'll make the entire post go away. Would that be helpful? Or would you rather simply go to your history, bring the link back up and copy/paste it unto the post? It's up to you, pal.

Do not complain about the handcuffs chaffing you when the cops bust you for violating! It sound whiny and does absolutely no good.
You're better off staying out of their way, or keeping a box of doughnuts handy for a bribe!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You know, I can fix it. It is very simple. I'll make the entire post go away. Would that be helpful? Or would you rather simply go to your history, bring the link back up and copy/paste it unto the post? It's up to you, pal.

of course, erase it, so what, by this offtopic discussion the thread is already destroyed, I wanted to inform people bout whats going on in europe, and wanted to see their opinions, but so what, its much more important which kind of toilett paper they use in bloc f of Area51...

Do not complain about the handcuffs chaffing you when the cops bust you for violating! It sound whiny and does absolutely no good.
You're better off staying out of their way, or keeping a box of doughnuts handy for a bribe!

unbeleaveable arrogance

instead of asking for editing it byself, or instead of doing that correctly, if you do such things, just saying that stuff....


really not nice, as you are super mod, you can do all those things, the question is if that all is right, or not, I am personally am pissed by that

why you dont ban me?

typical americans.... tsk

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Should the UN be Militarized

I don't understand, doesn't it already have a military, just not a standing army and no permanent command? Isn't this battlegroup idea similar, except that the supreme command is coordinated thru an EU council?

Jesus Wodan, where are you going ot get bickering with the mods, seriously? Believe me, I've been there, it feels a tad insulting to get warned and it pisses me off too, but have the common sense to forget that it ever happened and just restate your point in a more appropriate manner. I don't even remember which mod it was that gave me my last warning, and I'm glad.

Basically the EU feels left out, everyone else has a military so they want one.

Who exactly would be incontrol of the EU battlegroups? EU or countries?
What would they be used for?
*there not bashing question, I'm just wondering.

Forgive my arrogance, but the EU is made of countries the size of US states.

and?

Seriously, they are integrating- the EU will one day be a single country, and they will be better off for it. They have to keep taking the next step. Free trade, one currency, one military, one foreign policy, eventually one identity and one nation.

The thing is many of us aren't happy about the fact the EU is destinted to become one country, why should be have one currency, one military and one foreign policy.
The people of Britain voted quite a while ago while to join, I think it fair we get another vote been as the EU is developing into issues such as military.

I still say a UN battlegroups would be better:
Link


edit/note: cool it down a bit Wodan, mr super-mod was only doing his job.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by UK Wizard]

Better for once to be a bit selfish, its talk about military and if it has in future effect on EU countrys military structures and sizes to goal more centered as one united force (not in decades), its better be at hands of EU not UN and by so it should work only for EU's good not to be some charity organization. But as first it stands EU's peace keeping force that work in same manner as NATO forces, so they engage in military conflicts, unlike UN that carry guns but comes after dust has settled. And its true that EU invidual countrys are so small that as combined they can make their voices heard better, as you look rising powers like India, China for example, no invidual EU country can be compared with em.

To be honest, these 'Countries the size of States' would hold a better economy, ability for military power, etc, than most of the world - if they join together.

It makes sense to me, that the 'European Block' joines forces. Having one Army, controlled by a set group of leading members. E.G: Britain, France and Germany + whoever else gives a large number of soldiers/money.

This way, they can better defend themselves encase of any 'threat' from these new nations. It's no longer a U.S. vs Russia, enviroment. You have China, India and Brazil all growing as well. So it makes sense, for these nations to join as 'one' in military, economy, etc, but keep their own individual societies. Although, this seems to be going as well.

In my opinion, they need the battle groups to stay a 'power' after all, you can't really work diplomacy, without military power - you just get bullied otherwise.

But, if this happens I do have a slight worry a lot of the 'Middle East' will join together, as is already happening. After all, America and Britain have annoyed a lot of these countries and keep doing so. ( As does the rest of Europe.)

Yeah, careful what you do here or Amuk will call you a nazi. Watch out for the thought police.