A Conversation With My Daughter

My daughter and I came up with the following philosophy:

Your truth at this very moment is only your truth from your perspective. But the underlying reality of any situation, in that perspective, is where truth is held to a higher definition. The esteemed definition of truth is subjective to each individual, and to society as a whole. A lot of times, the individuals definition of truth directly contradicts societies definition.

Which led to a pretty interesting conversation....

Daughter: "Everything is subjective, but also nothing is subjective."
Me: "Isn't that subjective?"
Daughter: "No."
Me: "But.."
Daughter: "And yes. yes and no."
Me: "When is it not?"
Daughter: "Always, and never."
Me: "..??!"
Daughter: "Did i break your brain?"
Me: "Say that again."
......

Add to it or take from it, however you will from your perspective (which is shaped by your underlying reality. Which is not subjective, but also is).

a reply to: 3daysgone

Reality is objective. Experience of that reality is subjective. That's the only way that reality and Truth is subjective is in that experience is subjective.

Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: 3daysgone

Reality is objective. Experience of that reality is subjective. That's the only way that reality and Truth is subjective is in that experience is subjective.

Jaden

Yet Objective can be subjective from a different perspective.

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: 3daysgone

Reality is objective. Experience of that reality is subjective. That's the only way that reality and Truth is subjective is in that experience is subjective.

Jaden

Yet Objective can be subjective from a different perspective.

Are you being objectively subjective right now or is that just subjective?

Smart kid. Majoring in philosophy?

a reply to: 3daysgone


She is right. She broke your brain

originally posted by: VashTheStampede

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: 3daysgone

Reality is objective. Experience of that reality is subjective. That's the only way that reality and Truth is subjective is in that experience is subjective.

Jaden

Yet Objective can be subjective from a different perspective.

Are you being objectively subjective right now or is that just subjective?

The question itself is objectively subjective from our different perspectives, because of each of our underlying reality.

originally posted by: Justso
Smart kid. Majoring in philosophy?

No actually, to my chagrin. She will be majoring in Psychology, specializing in Psycho-Analysis.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: 3daysgone


She is right. She broke your brain

It was already cracked from many previous conversations with her.

Ask an acorn about truth and it will show you an oak - where it came from and where it is going. Ask an oak tree about truth and it will show you an acorn - where it came from and where it is going. Ask a squirrel about truth and it will show you the destruction of the acorn and the denial of the oak - both of which it depends on for its truth.

Truth is neither beautiful nor true. It is a cruel and unforgiving mistress who tempts with immortality and punishes with frail and fleeting life. The only real truth is being.

Is it objectively true that there is no objective truth?

Relativism is the philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid and that all truth is relative to the individual. But, if we look further, we see that this proposition is not logical. In fact, it is self refuting.

"All truth is relative."

• If the statement "All truth is relative" is true, then this would be a truth. If it is a truth, that means the statement "All truth is relative" is not relative. Therefore, not all truths are relative (since you claim your truth is not relative) and the statement that "All truth is relative" is false.

"There are no absolute truths. "

• The statement "There are no absolute truths" is an absolute statement which is supposed to be true. Therefore it is an absolute truth and "There are no absolute truths" is false.

• If there are no absolute truths, then you cannot believe anything absolutely at all, including that there are no absolute truths. Therefore, nothing could be really true for you - including relativism.

"What is true for you is not true for me. "

• If what is true for me is that relativism is false, then is it true that relativism is false?
• If you say no, then what is true for me is not true and relativism is false.
• If you say yes, then relativism is false.

"No one can know anything for sure. "

• If that is true, then we can know that we cannot know anything for sure which is self defeating.

"That is your reality, not mine. "

• Is my reality really real?
• If my reality is different than yours, how can my reality contradict your reality?
• If yours and mine are equally real, how can two opposite realities that exclude each other really exist at the same time?

"We all perceive what we want . "

• How do you know that statement is true?
• If we all perceive what we want, then what are you wanting to perceive?

Refuting Relativism

a reply to: Murgatroid

Is it objectively true that there is no objective truth?

Which makes it subjective.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

That is a great perspective, which demonstrates the underlying reality of nature. It is subjective.

I used to like really screwing with the daughters minds when they brought up stuff like that. I am capable of taking stuff like that many layers deep and twisting it around on them. Gee, no wonder they do not play that game with me anymore.

It is a game, they try to twist you up and get you confused so you make a mistake.

a reply to: rickymouse

Sounds just like this argument between two persons about Christianity:

Immediately, he replied, "That's what I mean. You're wrong because you judge me. Whatever anyone believes is true." You can guess how we answered him: "Be tolerant. Don't say we're wrong. Stop judging us. Whatever we believe is true." Realizing he had been self-contradictory, he tried to recover, saying, "Well, it's true for you, but not for me." Sadly, he only dug his hole deeper. We replied, "Our truth for us is that you don't have truth. So that must be true, because it's our truth. So you're still wrong."

Frustrated, he said, "No, you don't understand. If it's true for you, it only applies to you, not to anyone else. It's true for you, but not for me." We couldn't resist one more round: "It may be true for you that our truth is only true for us, but our truth is that what is true for us is also true for you, so you lose, because that's our truth, and you can't apply your truth to us because that's your truth!" He finally threw up his hands and admitted that his system was getting nowhere.

Responding to New Age Relativism

a reply to: 3daysgone

No offense, but your conversation with your daughter is flat out nonsensical. That's the kind of thing stoners say without really thinking about what they're saying.

"Everything is subjective..."
I think, therefore I am. Is that a subjective statement?
"...but also nothing is subjective..."
Chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla ice cream. Undeniably subjective.

You ask her whether or not that statement is subjective, and her response is yes and no, always and never. This response contradicts itself, because always subjective is never objective and vise versa. Just because something sounds "deep" doesn't really make it so when logic is applied.

It reminds me of that poem,
One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys got up to fight...

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: Justso
Smart kid. Majoring in philosophy?

No actually, to my chagrin. She will be majoring in Psychology, specializing in Psycho-Analysis.

How old is she again?

Also, things just "are", you can look at them from different perspectives but that doesn't change anything, things just are on their own. No matter what point of view you want, wish or are directed to have, they will continue to exist even if you don't even know about it or understand the how or why

a reply to: 3daysgone


It's always been my philosophy, just read my signature line that hasn't changed in years.

Reality is a perfect melody in which we try to tune our perspective to. Reality is a truth that all can choose to understand any way that they want- but perspective does not change reality, or make reality. I can not choose for the apple to fall up, And have it obey me, and just because I choose for the Apple to fall down, it does not mean that I have done anything but agree with reality.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
My daughter and I came up with the following philosophy:

Your truth at this very moment is only your truth from your perspective. But the underlying reality of any situation, in that perspective, is where truth is held to a higher definition. The esteemed definition of truth is subjective to each individual, and to society as a whole. A lot of times, the individuals definition of truth directly contradicts societies definition.

Which led to a pretty interesting conversation....

Daughter: "Everything is subjective, but also nothing is subjective."
Me: "Isn't that subjective?"
Daughter: "No."
Me: "But.."
Daughter: "And yes. yes and no."
Me: "When is it not?"
Daughter: "Always, and never."
Me: "..??!"
Daughter: "Did i break your brain?"
Me: "Say that again."
......

Add to it or take from it, however you will from your perspective (which is shaped by your underlying reality. Which is not subjective, but also is).

You two may be teetering on the edge of 'thoughts create reality' and 'reality create thoughts', reality or non-reality ever changing depending on whether or not one or more (consensus objectivity) is observing reality or not.