The Western version of God

The problem with the western version of God is the fallacy that he is all perfect

If God were perfect then why need religion to reform something?

What are we reforming?

Is the human the object of religious endeavor?

The answer is, not entirely.

For the world is also the common denominator of what religion is trying to control or reform. Indeed, the world is as corrupt as the human is.

Therefore, God is not perfect if we are trying to reform something inside of one of his worlds.


Buddha decided to ignore the God principle because it is irrelevant to the issue of man’s salvation( and not observable on all levels) his system requires the integrity of common sense, and a concept of a perfect being in an imperfect world is an inconsistent concept.

What the westerners did to get over this intellectual conundrum was invent a duality and call it the devil

So the question remains, what then is perfect?

It is the being of God that is indeed perfect. But the aspect of the world we live in is not perfect, neither is the pitiful being who fell into this world, known as the human being.

The reason behind this is that God is more than merely a being, he includes what we can call the Systems of God: the worlds, levels and dimensions that make up God--in which imperfection can exist.

a reply to: Willtell

Free will outside of God's is what makes us imperfect, but God allowed us to possess it anyway. He allowed us the power of choice, whether you believe it's much of one or not.

a reply to: Willtell

What if he was a cosmic entity a la the Celestials from the Marvel movies?

I see you left humanity entirely out of the equation.

Religion is what happens when you pour the pure, perfect water of faith into the rusty vessel of mankind. That is paraphrasing Francis Collins.

a reply to: Willtell

If God were perfect then why need religion to reform something?

What are we reforming?

Therefore, God is not perfect if we are trying to reform something inside of one of his worlds.

What are you talking about? Even in most forms of Western Christianity, isn't the point for Christians to live according to God's laws so they can go to Heaven? What "reforming" are you talking about specifically?

originally posted by: ketsuko
I see you left humanity entirely out of the equation.

Religion is what happens when you pour the pure, perfect water of faith into the rusty vessel of mankind. That is paraphrasing Francis Collins.

Religion is an antidote to human corruption that has become corrupt itself

The patient poisoning the medicine

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Making human nature better.

Going to heaven is a part of making human nature better

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Willtell

Free will outside of God's is what makes us imperfect, but God allowed us to possess it anyway. He allowed us the power of choice, whether you believe it's much of one or not.

Free will is an oxymoron if there ever was one

Will is NOT free or we wouldn’t be paying for our actions

a reply to: Willtell

Naw, man lol. We're free to do what we want to do on Earth (morally). However, the people who want to enter God's Kingdom are given a chance to prove it by voluntarily following God's rules. This universe is just a sandbox where each individual gets to prove his/her true nature.

Are you the kind of being that will help other creatures when they're in need? Do you enjoy harming other lifeforms? Do you treat each other fairly? Do you take care of the things given to you or do you waste them? Will you treat God's other creations with respect without being forced to, or will you destroy and exploit them for your own personal gain? Will you follow God's rules or intentionally disobey them? Anyone can say they'll do the "right" thing, but this temporary existence gives us a chance to prove it.

If you don't believe in an afterlife, then it won't make sense because this existence is "it". If you really don't believe there's anything beyond this temporary existence, then I can see why you'd think God's religions are meant to simply reform our actions in this temporary existence. But if you believe in an afterlife, you'll see that these rules are simply meant to test our true natures for the afterlife. (note: I'm talking about the point behind some forms of Christianity and Islam.)

EAT: Look at something like the 7 Sins and 7 Virtues from this perspective and they'll make more sense. Why would God allow a wrathful, arrogant, greedy sloth to live among His most prized eternal creations? They'd only cause problems & disruptions.

a reply to: Willtell

Free will is an oxymoron if there ever was one

Will is NOT free or we wouldn’t be paying for our actions

Free will only means that we are given the freedom to choose, it doesn't mean we're able to break laws that result in consequences. Whether they be God's laws, the laws of nature, or anything else that has to do with cause and effect, all decisions have consequences. If they didn't, we would have destroyed ourselves a long time ago.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The Kingdom of God is within you

The spiritual science is to get people to contact their inner Kingdom of God, not any outer material realm.

All true religion is for the cultivation of that sceince

a reply to: Willtell

According to what?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You should know

The Fall..

You are literally a kidnapped child pondering the validity of your captors authority.

The western concept of God is a genetic sickness in the mind of westerners. Their captor becomes their god. They worship corruption, always praise "success" even when they see the corruption. Westerners hate the underdog, and love taking advantage of the kind hearted. They love wheelers and dealers, hustlers and shiesters. They hate low level drug dealers for being poor, but praise and admire the like of Scarface and Walter White, both real and fictional kingpins alike. Cuz they got the money, and the power. All concept of morals vanish with obtained power. Power makes you excempt. America's favorite show is about meth dealers. Its cools once you get the power, meth dealing child killer or not.

They worship winners even though they know they cheat. Westerners worship power, almost exclusively stolen, corrupt, illegitimate power. Stealing bases, stealing the ball,capital gains stock exchanges, rigged elections pandering and manipulation, its engrained into everything they are.

But still, they hate life, hate nature, hate the creator enough to blame everything they don't like on the Most High, instead of on their captor,Satan.

a reply to: AdKiller


I can’t argue with that

a reply to: Willtell

If you're referring to what I think you are, are you implying that line isn't a metaphor? I'm asking because it seems to be a direct contradiction of John 14's first 4 or 5 passages. Then again, it's not my scripture so neither passages holds any sway over my original answers.

Actually, I don't know where you're going with any of this. I was genuinely interested at first, but if you're not going to just come out and say whatever main point you're trying to make, I'll probably leave this topic alone. It doesn't seem like you want any of our "answers" anyway.

originally posted by: Willtell
The problem with the western version of God is the fallacy that he is all perfect

If God were perfect then why need religion to reform something?

What are we reforming?

Is the human the object of religious endeavor?

The answer is, not entirely.

For the world is also the common denominator of what religion is trying to control or reform. Indeed, the world is as corrupt as the human is.

Therefore, God is not perfect if we are trying to reform something inside of one of his worlds.


Buddha decided to ignore the God principle because it is irrelevant to the issue of man’s salvation( and not observable on all levels) his system requires the integrity of common sense, and a concept of a perfect being in an imperfect world is an inconsistent concept.

What the westerners did to get over this intellectual conundrum was invent a duality and call it the devil

So the question remains, what then is perfect?

It is the being of God that is indeed perfect. But the aspect of the world we live in is not perfect, neither is the pitiful being who fell into this world, known as the human being.

The reason behind this is that God is more than merely a being, he includes what we can call the Systems of God: the worlds, levels and dimensions that make up God--in which imperfection can exist.

Hold on, you can't speak for all of us.....

originally posted by: AdKiller
The Fall..

You are literally a kidnapped child pondering the validity of your captors authority.

The western concept of God is a genetic sickness in the mind of westerners. Their captor becomes their god. They worship corruption, always praise "success" even when they see the corruption. Westerners hate the underdog, and love taking advantage of the kind hearted. They love wheelers and dealers, hustlers and shiesters. They hate low level drug dealers for being poor, but praise and admire the like of Scarface and Walter White, both real and fictional kingpins alike. Cuz they got the money, and the power. All concept of morals vanish with obtained power. Power makes you excempt. America's favorite show is about meth dealers. Its cools once you get the power, meth dealing child killer or not.

They worship winners even though they know they cheat. Westerners worship power, almost exclusively stolen, corrupt, illegitimate power. Stealing bases, stealing the ball,capital gains stock exchanges, rigged elections pandering and manipulation, its engrained into everything they are.

But still, they hate life, hate nature, hate the creator enough to blame everything they don't like on the Most High, instead of on their captor,Satan.

I loved this post, until you decided to invoke some kind of demonic entity to seemingly share the blame.

We are all existentially free, and we're also free to keep playing out experiential loops in the 3D game to our heart's content.

No God or Devil has any power over you, not unless you willingly give it to him.

And free will does not make us imperfect. We are naturally perfect. If we take the Source at its most fundamental, it is simply 'not imperfect'. That I call 'naturally perfect' and this is the general state of all Creation.

On the other hand, the Universal Soul as Creator has created a Creation that is infinitely great and thus exerts some effect on the Creator (kind of like the software changing the hardware). So, if the Creator is truly worthy of his task, we can suppose that shim has striven towards a supernaturally perfect Creation.

It is from the perspective of the Supernatural Universe of God (in his/her/its highest supernatural expression) that we are 'imperfect'.

Therefore - we are 'naturally perfect', and 'supernaturally imperfect'. But it is actually the application of our own free will that allows us to bridge the gap and evolve towards ultimate spiritual perfection and not the other way around.

So, basically, Christianity has scammed you in this regard as in every other. Free will is not a defect. It's a perfection and a bridge towards supernatural perfection.

Perfection an ideal, and is said to not exist.

Lucifer or Satan, from all that I've read on HIM before the fall, might of been perfect in God's eye. The very first creation, being, angel long before humanity( One thousand years ain't that long)...or is depicted as a man just for #s and giggles. As science would dare beleive, the Ultimate Life form.

Many creations after the angels, the sky an the earth an it, God made man an women, and yet Satan couldn't bow to them, but apparently ended up fornicating with one.

God is said not be a man, e.t, or even mortal, an is often the personification of a larger then life spirit or elements as far as the eye can see. If God is a creator, then it would be creation itself, and yet to our feasible brains, reality, as usual...sucks.