Israeli Medical Association rejects mandatory flu shots for doctors

By Judy Siegel-Itzkovich
January 17, 2018 16:42

The number of people of all ages who died from complications of the flu in the last few months was 27 – double that of last year.

Although many US hospitals require all medical personnel who are in direct contact with patients to get influenza shots every autumn, the Israel Medical Association only recommends the vaccine to its 25,000 members, while it refuses to allow those who have been vaccinated to wear a tag or pin saying so.

IMA chairman Prof. Leonid Eidelman, who is chief of anesthesiology at the Rabin Medical Center-Beilinson Campus in Petah Tikva, told The Jerusalem Post that doctors should not be forced to get the vaccination. “And even if they do voluntarily wear a pin showing they were vaccinated, it doesn’t give a good impression about those who don’t. There is a slippery slope; doctors could be forced to wear pins saying they have HIV or hepatitis C. It would never end.”

Eidelman turned down a suggestion from the Health Ministry a few years ago that those doctors who followed the recommendation be allowed to wear a pin or sign saying they were vaccinated. The ministry’s suggestion was aimed not only at informing patients whether their doctors were vaccinated, but also for doctors to serve as an example to patients that they too should go to their health fund community clinic for the annual shot. On Wednesday, he reiterated to the Post that he and the IMA were absolutely opposed to requiring medical staffers to be vaccinated and to the pin idea.
...

www.jpost.com...

Prof. Leonid Eidelman who is a chairman of the Israeli Medical Association (IMA) was also elected to be the president of the World Medical Association late last year.

This should be an example to all those people who are authoritarian at heart and want governments to force others to be vaccinated.

Prof. Eidelman also stated: he knew of "no studies showing that patients are infected with the flu by their doctors” or doctors infected by their patients.

In Israel only about 19% of the population get vaccinated, yet the amount of people who die from the flu are few and between. Last year about 13-14 people died, although in the last few months that number did double to 27. But this is something that happens in other countries as well where most of the population gets vaccinated.

No country and no government should be forcing people to get vaccinated, or to wear pins showing whether or not they were vaccinated, it should be a personal decision, and only parents should make an informed decision on whether to vaccinate their children.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

They are making a sound decision on the information they have.

With the reported 13ish people dying from flu last year, it seems like an unneeded gamble injecting what ever mass produced "medicine" in your vein. I would pass if I was a DR. too.

Mandatory flu shots for Israeli civilians.
Optional for the doctors who are injecting the masses with them?
That's literally refusing to take a dose of o.we own medicine!
Just what the docs ordered..

(Yes Israeli ministry says everyone over 6MO should get yearly flu shot! (HAARETZ)

Thats utter nonsense. Look in terms of nosocomial infections, the two biggest culprits are Doctors and Nurses. The Doctors are more at risk because most nurses have a set group of patients. Doctors may roam from unit to unit during rounds and thus are exposed to more patients.

I have to say that its a bit appalling that they do not require the MD's to be vaccinated. I'm curious about the rest of the healthcare providers are required to do so?

Its pretty much mandatory here in the US from the Housekeepers on up. How can a MD, advocate vaccinations when he or she refuses to get them themselves? I wonder how many are vaccinated?

a reply to: FredT

There are plenty of studies which have shown that people who vaccinate for flu shots can and do pass the flu to others... But i don't see people calling for "vaccinations to be stopped".

BTW, here.

Analysis finds limited evidence for HCW flu vaccination
Filed Under:
Influenza Vaccines

Lisa Schnirring | Staff Writer | CIDRAP News
| Sep 19, 2013
...
And influenza experts who commented on the analysis pointed out that, for specific outcomes such as lab-confirmed influenza, the data showed little evidence of protection for patients. They agreed, though, that immunization is a good measure to take.

The meta-analysis, by researchers from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), appeared in an early online edition of Clinical Infectious Diseases. They focused on four randomized controlled trials and four observational studies from long-term facilities or hospitals. They pooled the results and assigned grades to the quality of the evidence.
...
In addition, the science behind flu vaccination mandates has been a topic of recent debate. In November 2012, an editorial in a Canadian medical journal calling for mandatory flu shots in HCWs prompted a quick response from researchers who questioned the evidence cited in the piece.

The new CDC analysis of HCW flu vaccination is part of an overall trend toward evidence-based public health recommendations and parallels recent new scrutiny on the efficacy of the flu vaccine itself.
...
Though the investigators found a 42% drop in ILI, the impact on lab-confirmed flu—a much more specific outcome—was lower and not statistically significant.
...

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

Has anyone noticed that when someone in your house gets the flu almost everyone in your house also gets the flu?

New Canadian studies suggest seasonal flu shot increased H1N1 risk


Filed Under: H1N1 2009 Pandemic Influenza; Influenza Vaccines

By: Maryn McKenna | Apr 06, 2010

Apr 6, 2010 (CIDRAP News) –
...
In a lengthy article published today in Public Library of Science Medicine (PLoSMed), researchers detail the results of four supplementary studies that were launched after an April 2009 school outbreak provided the first signal of an association between seasonal flu shots and pandemic flu illness. The studies, which took in about 2,700 people, found overall that the likelihood of needing medical attention for pandemic flu was 1.4 to 2.5 times greater among people who were vaccinated the previous fall.
...
The Canadian researchers add, however, that their results may signal a heretofore-undetected biological mechanism of interaction, one that could occur again in the rare instance of a pandemic strain arising after a flu season has already begun. The 2009 pandemic strain surfaced in the last weeks of the 2008-09 flu season, months after vaccines for that season had been administered.

"Our results may seem counterintuitive, but they cannot be dismissed on the basis that no biological mechanism can plausibly explain them," the Canadian researchers write. "If these observations do reflect a real biological effect . . . they raise important questions that warrant further scientific observation."
...

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

Flu can kill. Especially the old and the sick. Clinicians have a responsibility that they do not unwitting spread disease that can kill within healthcare environments.

In the UK flu vaccinations are free to anyone who wants one, including healthcare staff. Many clinicians see it as their professional duty to ensure they are not part of the problem, but there are no mandatory vaccinations. Around 50% of NHS staff get the flu jab.

Do mandatory vaccinations in the States exist due to the high level of ignorance as to what a vaccination actually is, and what it does? Probably. I make that judgement because of the comments that are often made on ATS about vaccinations in general. However, another more compelling reason will be the problematic legal situation and the fear of being sued by patients who get flu, but if you can show your staff are vaccinated then you're covered. USA healthcare is just managing their own exposure to risk.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Has anyone noticed that when someone in your house gets the flu almost everyone in your house also gets the flu?

Yep, hence vaccination is important to prevent infecting others.

New Canadian studies suggest seasonal flu shot increased H1N1 risk
New Canadian studies suggest seasonal flu shot increased H1N1 risk.

Let me help you and post the paragraphs you so conveniently forgot. From your link:

But the authors warn that, since all four studies were observational, even careful design cannot rule out the possibility that some undetected methodologic bias affected the results. That caution is echoed in a companion editorial, written by US researchers unconnected to the Canadian study, who cite the contradictory results of six other studies conducted in Mexico, Australia, and the United States at the same time as the Canadian ones. Four of those studies found no association between seasonal flu vaccination and pandemic flu illness, while the two done in Mexico paradoxically found that seasonal flu shots may have had a protective effect.

So there you go, your own link says there is no evidence between immunisation and flu pandemic.

The influenza vaccine is not as effective as other vaccines, because of the high mutation ability of the flu virus. However, it still prevents more than 2 million cases and more than 37000 deaths in Europe every year. This despite effectiveness being measured as moderate and vaccination coverage not reaching the ideal 75% target (on elderly). Evidence (more recent than your links):

Annual public health and economic benefits of seasonal influenza vaccination: a European estimate- August 2014




a reply to: paraphi
Spot on! I am a geriatric nurse and I have the flu vaccine every Autumn, not because I fear getting ill as I still am (relatively) young and healthy, but to protect the elderly and those with chronic medical conditions, as complications could be fatal for them.

I know people refuse to take it because its effectiveness is uncertain and it varies year by year, and also because we have forgotten how certain diseases used to kill (and maim) hundreds of thousands, so many have become complacent and ignorant.

a reply to: Agartha

Regularly taking vitamin C helps not only avoid the flu, but it fights it as well. Not to mention that vitamin C doesn't have the adjuvant found in vaccines such as thimerosal which still are used in multi-dose vaccines in the U.S. Meanwhile thimerosal has been banned in countries in Europe and Canada. Yet in the U.S. multi-dose vaccines still use thimerosal, a know toxic which causes many neurological disorders.

Not to mention, if the president of the World Medical Association says that doctors should not be mandated to be vaccinated and that he has not seen any evidence that would justify having doctors vaccinated for the flu, then the same applies to regular people.

Too many people have become complacent and ignorant to these facts...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Agartha

Regularly taking vitamin C helps not only avoid the flu, but it fights it as well.

Please post evidence to back up your claim. Thanks.

Not to mention that vitamin C doesn't have the adjuvant found in vaccines such as thimerosal which still are used in multi-dose vaccines in the U.S. Meanwhile thimerosal has been banned in countries in Europe and Canada. Yet in the U.S. multi-dose vaccines still use thimerosal, a know toxic which causes many neurological disorders.

There is no evidence whatsoever of thimerosal causing any problems at all, let alone neurological diseases. It's not banned in Europe, it's been removed due to the controversy caused by people who wrongly believe thimerosal is methylmercury. O

Not to mention, if the president of the World Medical Association says that doctors should not be mandated to be vaccinated and that he has not seen any evidence that would justify having doctors vaccinated for the flu, then the same applies to regular people.

I disagree with many things being compulsory. I agree with how things are done in the UK where immunization is not forced, but where people make informed choices and decide by themselves. Luckily education is good here hence vaccination rates are high because people understand their safety and effectiveness.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Good for them...employers should not be able to forcibly inject you with something as a means to your employment, especially if that is a policy that gets changed after you accepted employment with them.

Great so now if a person wants to avoid being vaccinated by big pharma they have to go to medical school.

originally posted by: Agartha

Please post evidence to back up your claim. Thanks.

So you are a nurse and you don't know that vitamin C is one of the best immune system-enhancing vitamins?

Next thing you are going to tell us is that you don't know that vitamins helps us in general fend off various diseases, and they reduce the risk of getting diseases as well...

BTW, you do need a high dose of vitamin C when you start feeling the effects of a flu/cold. I have used vitamin C a lot and seen the results myself.

If i feel the effects of a cold/flu coming that is mild I would normally use about 2,000 mg of vitamin C a day, when i feel the effects of the flu/cold are stronger I go to up to around 5,000-6,000 mg a day.

J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.
Gorton HC, Jarvis K.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
...
SUBJECTS:

A total of 463 students ranging in age from 18 to 32 years made up the control group. A total of 252 students ranging in age from 18 to 30 years made up the experimental or test group.
METHOD:

Investigators tracked the number of reports of cold and flu symptoms among the 1991 test population of the facility compared with the reports of like symptoms among the 1990 control population. Those in the control population reporting symptoms were treated with pain relievers and decongestants, whereas those in the test population reporting symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily thereafter. Those not reporting symptoms in the test group were also administered 1000-mg doses 3 times daily.
RESULTS:

Overall, reported flu and cold symptoms in the test group decreased 85% compared with the control group after the administration of megadose Vitamin C.

CONCLUSION:

Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Heck.

J Pharm Pharmacol. 2016 Mar;68(3):406-20. doi: 10.1111/jphp.12529. Epub 2016 Feb 21.
Red ginseng and vitamin C increase immune cell activity and decrease lung inflammation induced by influenza A virus/H1N1 infection.
Kim H1,2, Jang M1, Kim Y1, Choi J1, Jeon J1, Kim J3, Hwang YI1, Kang JS1,2, Lee WJ1.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:

Because red ginseng and vitamin C have immunomodulatory function and anti-viral effect, we investigated whether red ginseng and vitamin C synergistically regulate immune cell function and suppress viral infection.
...
CONCLUSIONS:

Administration of red ginseng and vitamin C enhanced the activation of immune cells like T and NK cells, and repressed the progress of viral lytic cycle. It also reduced lung inflammation caused by viral infection, which consequently increased the survival rate.

© 2016 Royal Pharmaceutical Society, Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:675149. doi: 10.1155/2015/675149. Epub 2015 Feb 1.
A new mechanism of vitamin C effects on A/FM/1/47(H1N1) virus-induced pneumonia in restraint-stressed mice.
Cai Y1, Li YF1, Tang LP1, Tsoi B1, Chen M1, Chen H1, Chen XM1, Tan RR1, Kurihara H1, He RR1.
Author information
Abstract

It is well known that vitamin C could protect against influenza infection, but little is known about the mechanisms. This study aimed to investigate the influence and possible mechanisms of vitamin C on pneumonia induced by influenza virus in stressed mice. Results showed that restraint stress significantly increased the mortality and the severity of pneumonia in mice caused by A/FM/1/47(H1N1) virus infection, which was attenuated by oral administration of vitamin C (125 and 250 mg/kg). Moreover, vitamin C administration significantly decreased expression of susceptibility genes, including mitochondrial antiviral signaling (MAVS) and interferon regulatory factor 3 (IRF3), and increased expression of NF-κB. These work in conjunction to induce type I interferons (IFNs) and elicit innate antiviral response as key factors in RIG-I-mediated signal transduction pathway. The above effects of vitamin C were further found to relate with inhibition of excess CORT synthesis by regulating steroid hydroxylating enzymes in adrenal gland. In conclusion, the protective effects of vitamin C on influenza virus-caused pneumonia might be related to its inhibition of CORT synthesis, which reduces the susceptibility to influenza viral infection in restraint-stressed mice. These findings provide a new mechanism for the effects of vitamin C on influenza virus-induced pneumonia in restraint-stressed mice.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Nutrition. 2010 Jan;26(1):128-32. doi: 10.1016/j.nut.2009.09.015.
Combined inhalational and oral supplementation of ascorbic acid may prevent influenza pandemic emergency: a hypothesis.
Banerjee D1, Kaul D.
Author information
1
Department of Experimental Medicine and Biotechnology, Postgraduate Institute of Medical Education and Research (PGIMER), Chandigarh, India. [email protected]

Abstract

Occurrence of influenza pandemics is a worldwide phenomenon and a significant cause of mortality and morbidity throughout the globe. It is due to mutations in the influenza virus genetic material creating antigenic drift of pathogenic viral proteins resulting in emergence of new influenza virus strains. Therefore, the vaccines available for prevention of influenza offer no protection against influenza pandemics caused by new virus strains. Moreover, the existing drugs used to combat influenza may be ineffective to treat influenza pandemics due to the emergence of drug resistance in the pandemic virus strain. Therefore, a working strategy must be developed to combat influenza pandemics. In this review we have addressed this problem and reviewed the published studies on ascorbic acid in the common cold and influenza and laboratory studies on the effect of ascorbic acid on influenza virus. We have also correlated the clinical and laboratory studies and developed a hypothesis to prevent influenza pandemics.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I could post more if you want to, but the above should show you how wrong you are. BTW, the dose of Vitamin C does matter. A lot of research has been made on "lower doses" of vitamin C, and those research studies have been used as "evidence it doesn't help", but studies on higher doses of vitamin C show the opposite result, that it does indeed help reduce the duration, and intensity of the flu/cold.

originally posted by: Agartha
...
There is no evidence whatsoever of thimerosal causing any problems at all, let alone neurological diseases. It's not banned in Europe, it's been removed due to the controversy caused by people who wrongly believe thimerosal is methylmercury. O
...

Well, it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about because there are plenty of studies which show the opposite of what you claim.

First of all...

Mercury Exposure and Children’s Health
Stephan Bose-O’Reilly, MD, MPH,a Kathleen M. McCarty, ScD, MPH,b Nadine Steckling, BSc,a and Beate Lettmeier, PhD
a Institute of Public Health, Medical Decision Making and Health Technology Assessment, Department of Public Health, Information Systems and Health Technology Assessment, UMIT—University for Health Sciences, Medical Informatics and Technology, Hall i.T, Austria
b Yale School of Public Health, Yale University, New Haven, CT.
...

Abstract.

Acute or chronic mercury exposure can cause adverse effects during any period of development. Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure. Ideally, neither children nor adults should have any mercury in their bodies because it provides no physiological benefit. Prenatal and postnatal mercury exposures occur frequently in many different ways. Pediatricians, nurses, and other health care providers should understand the scope of mercury exposures and health problems among children and be prepared to handle mercury exposures in medical practice. Prevention is the key to reducing mercury poisoning. Mercury exists in different chemical forms: elemental (or metallic), inorganic, and organic (methylmercury and ethyl mercury). Mercury exposure can cause acute and chronic intoxication at low levels of exposure. Mercury is neuro-, nephro-, and immunotoxic.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In case you didn't know this.

Thiomersal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thiomersal (INN), or thimerosal (USAN, JAN), is an organomercury compound. This compound is a well established antiseptic and antifungal agent.
...
Structure

Thiomersal features mercury(II) with a coordination number 2, i.e. two ligands are attached to Hg, the thiolate and the ethyl group. The carboxylate group confers solubility in water. Like other two-coordinate Hg(II) compounds, the coordination geometry of Hg is linear, with a 180° S-Hg-C angle. Typically, organomercury thiolate compounds are prepared from organomercury chlorides.[1]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Thimerosal-Derived Ethylmercury Is a Mitochondrial Toxin in Human Astrocytes: Possible Role of Fenton Chemistry in the Oxidation and Breakage of mtDNA
Martyn A. Sharpe, * Andrew D. Livingston, and David S. Baskin
Department of Neurosurgery, The Methodist Hospital, 6565 Fannin Street, Houston, TX 77030, USA
*Martyn A. Sharpe: Email: gro.shmt@eprahsam
Academic Editor: Y. James Kang

Abstract

Thimerosal generates ethylmercury in aqueous solution and is widely used as preservative. We have investigated the toxicology of Thimerosal in normal human astrocytes, paying particular attention to mitochondrial function and the generation of specific oxidants. We find that ethylmercury not only inhibits mitochondrial respiration leading to a drop in the steady state membrane potential, but also concurrent with these phenomena increases the formation of superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, and Fenton/Haber-Weiss generated hydroxyl radical. These oxidants increase the levels of cellular aldehyde/ketones. Additionally, we find a five-fold increase in the levels of oxidant damaged mitochondrial DNA bases and increases in the levels of mtDNA nicks and blunt-ended breaks. Highly damaged mitochondria are characterized by having very low membrane potentials, increased superoxide/hydrogen peroxide production, and extensively damaged mtDNA and proteins. These mitochondria appear to have undergone a permeability transition, an observation supported by the five-fold increase in Caspase-3 activity observed after Thimerosal treatment.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Arch Toxicol. 1985 Sep;57(4):260-7.

The comparative toxicology of ethyl- and methylmercury.

Magos L, Brown AW, Sparrow S, Bailey E, Snowden RT, Skipp WR.

Abstract

Neurotoxicity and renotoxicity were compared in rats given by gastric gavage five daily doses of 8.0 mg Hg/kg methyl- or ethylmercuric chloride or 9.6 mg Hg/kg ethylmercuric chloride. Three or 10 days after the last treatment day rats treated with either 8.0 or 9.6 mg Hg/kg ethylmercury had higher total or organic mercury concentrations in blood and lower concentrations in kidneys and brain than methylmercury-treated rats. In each of these tissues the inorganic mercury concentration was higher after ethyl- than after methylmercury. Weight loss relative to the expected body weight and renal damage was higher in ethylmercury-treated rats than in rats given equimolar doses of methylmercury.
These effects became more severe when the dose of ethylmercury was increased by 20%. Thus in renotoxicity the renal concentration of inorganic mercury seems to be more important than the concentration of organic or total mercury. In methylmercury-treated rats damage and inorganic mercury deposits were restricted to the P2 region of the proximal tubules, while in ethylmercury-treated rats the distribution of mercury and damage was more widespread. There was little difference in the neurotoxicities of methylmercury and ethylmercury when effects on the dorsal root ganglia or coordination disorders were compared. Based on both criteria, an equimolar dose of ethylmercury was less neurotoxic than methylmercury, but a 20% increase in the dose of ethylmercury was enough to raise the sum of coordination disorder scores slightly and ganglion damage significantly above those in methylmercury-treated rats.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Administration of Thimerosal to Infant Rats Increases Overflow of Glutamate and Aspartate in the Prefrontal Cortex: Protective Role of Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate

Thimerosal neurotoxicity is associated with glutathione depletion: protection with glutathione precursors.

(continued below)

Mercury Exposure and Children’s Health
Stephan Bose-O’Reilly, MD, MPH,a Kathleen M. McCarty, ScD, MPH,b Nadine Steckling, BSc,a and Beate Lettmeier, PhD
a Institute of Public Health, Medical Decision Making and Health Technology Assessment, Department of Public Health, Information Systems and Health Technology Assessment, UMIT—University for Health Sciences, Medical Informatics and Technology, Hall i.T, Austria
b Yale School of Public Health, Yale University, New Haven, CT.
...


Abstract.


Acute or chronic mercury exposure can cause adverse effects during any period of development. Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure. Ideally, neither children nor adults should have any mercury in their bodies because it provides no physiological benefit. Prenatal and postnatal mercury exposures occur frequently in many different ways. Pediatricians, nurses, and other health care providers should understand the scope of mercury exposures and health problems among children and be prepared to handle mercury exposures in medical practice. Prevention is the key to reducing mercury poisoning. Mercury exists in different chemical forms: elemental (or metallic), inorganic, and organic (methylmercury and ethyl mercury). Mercury exposure can cause acute and chronic intoxication at low levels of exposure. Mercury is neuro-, nephro-, and immunotoxic.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Coincidentally, studies that were done on animals, including monkeys, which were subjected to vaccination have shown accumulation of inorganic mercury in the brain and other organs with the ethyl-mercury group of monkeys having higher concentrations of inorganic mercury than the methylmercury groups.

I am not going to repost all the abstract again, but will post specific parts of such abstract. This particular abstract is about the accumulation of mercury from thimerosal vaccine on the brain of monkeys.

Thimerosal and Animal Brains: New Data for Assessing Human Ethylmercury Risk

Julia R. Barrett

Additional article information
...
Because of the lack of pharmacokinetic and toxicity data for ethylmercury, methylmercury has been used as a reference for ethylmercury toxicity based on the assumption that the two compounds share similar toxicokinetic profiles. However, a new animal study shows that methylmercury is an inadequate reference for ethylmercury due to significant differences in tissue distribution, clearance rates, and ratios of organic to inorganic mercury in the brain [EHP 113:1015–1021].

During their first two years, children in the United States may receive more than 20 routine vaccinations. The rise in childhood autism has sparked concerns that thimerosal-derived ethylmercury may be at least partly to blame for some of these cases—concerns that are largely driven by awareness of methylmercury’s neurotoxicity.
...
In the current study, researchers assigned 41 newborn monkeys to one of three exposure groups. Seventeen of the monkeys were injected with vaccines spiked with thimerosal for a total mercury dose of 20 micrograms per kilogram (μg/kg) at ages 0, 7, 14, and 21 days, mimicking the typical schedule of vaccines for human infants. At the same ages, another 17 monkeys received 20 μg/kg methylmercury by stomach tube to mimic typical methylmercury exposure. A third group of 7 monkeys served as unexposed controls.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

But i digress. I could post dozens and dozens of peer-reviewed research papers that say the opposite of what you claim about thimerosal, aluminum or other adjuvant used in vaccines. But then that would derail the thread. If you want to discuss this I made a thread about it. Below is a link to that thread.

The Real Next Level BS of the Vaccine Controversy.

Anyway, this thread is about the President of the World Medical Association stating that doctors shouldn't be mandated to vaccinate, and imo neither should regular people if they make an informed decision. Not to mention that there are some vaccines which do not contain such adjuvants as thimerasol, such as the single doses of flu vaccine.

With this type of information parents could decide to ask doctors to give their children and themselves single dose flu vaccines which do not contain thimerosal.

That is called "making an informed decision".

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Just goes to prove they know whats in them.

a reply to: Azureblue

It also goes to prove they don't follow their oaths, because they care more about protecting themselves than the public.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That's very interesting because the last flu shot I got was in 2008 and I still got the flu - bad. A month after that I was in the hospital with a blob in my spinal cord. It was the only year I got the shot and I have a hard time believing they weren't related.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
BTW, you do need a high dose of vitamin C when you start feeling the effects of a flu/cold. I have used vitamin C a lot and seen the results myself.

Taking vit C when you have caught a cold and are starting to present the symptoms has no effect whatsoever. It's your immune system does the work. Taking vit C as a precaution to catching a cold does not work unless you are under physical stress. That's the beauty of peer reviewed scientific studies. They bust the myths. But, I guess if you believe then there is placebo.

To the topic in hand. The science of vaccinations and particularly the use of extraordinarily minute quantities of chemicals (etc) is an industry of half understood claims, myths and downright hoaxes. This is especially true of the use of mercury-based preservatives e.g. thiomersal. Simply quoting studies will go over most people's heads unless you are qualified to understand the narrative. Shortening the post by summarising (in layman's terms) is always helpful

Anyway. If in doubt check the ingredients of the vaccination like from this source

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
It was the only year I got the shot and I have a hard time believing they weren't related.

This is why scientific conclusions are drawn from sample sizes larger than 1.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
So you are a nurse and you don't know that vitamin C is one of the best immune system-enhancing vitamins?

LOL things escalate quickly with you! Me asking you for evidence does not mean I don't know anything about a subject, it means I want to know what you know about it and where you get the information from.

Like another member have said, there is no clear evidence that vitamin C helps prevent or reduce colds . However, as it is another Big Pharma cheap product available to everybody, they should do more therapeutic clinical trials. In the meantime here are two articles you may want to red:

Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold

Vitamin C for preventing and treating pneumonia

Now, let's check the links you posted:

The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.

This study is from 1990 and not clear at all. It's so old I can't find the data to analyze. This is not evidence.

Red ginseng and vitamin C increase immune cell activity and decrease lung inflammation induced by influenza A virus/H1N1 infection.

This was done on cells in a petri dish and mice. What works in a petri dish and in mice does not necessarily mean it works with humans, unless you can show so with clinical trials. So, sorry, but this is not evidence.

A new mechanism of vitamin C effects on A/FM/1/47(H1N1) virus-induced pneumonia in restraint-stressed mice.

Only mice again.

Combined inhalational and oral supplementation of ascorbic acid may prevent influenza pandemic emergency: a hypothesis.

This is not a study, it's just a proposed strategy but I cannot access their data and the evidence they provide without paying. Once again sorry but this is not evidence, only the abstract means nothing, you cannot analyze proof this way.

Regarding the article about Thimerosal: it explains clearly that there are two types of mercury, methylmercury and ethylmercury, Thimerosal being the second one. Your link is all about the dangers of methylmercury, which is not added in vaccines. Your link actually states the following:

Unlike methylmercury, ethyl mercury does not accumulate in the fatty tissues of the body and is actively excreted via the gut

It also says:

Concerns were raised in 1999 about the cumulative amount of mercury in infant immunization schedules. Beginning in 1930, thiomersal, which contains 49.6% ethyl mercury, was added in some multidose vaccines for preservation.

In 2006, the WHO Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety concluded that there were no reasons to change current immunization practices

The use of thimerosal will continue to be controversial until people will become more educated in science and understand the physiological pathway of ethylmercury. So I still stand by my statement.

Thank you for the link to your other thread, I will check it out next week when I'm off and have more time.