Do you correlate education with intelligence??

a reply to: Plotus

Prefer Ken Kesey, Tom Wolf and Hunter S. Thompson.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

In years gone by I would have said that education played a part in intelligence. Today I believe exactly the opposite.

Intelligence = problem solving.

Todays students are little more than unimaginative test taking thought-bots. Creative thought has been taken out of curriculum and replaced by pseudo-instructional tolerance guides and directions to safe spaces. It was more than a few years ago that my brother took his daughter out of public schools and in to more expensive but infinitely better private schools. Today she is a highly respected NICU nurse that travels the country at the expense of hospitals and care centers teaching others how to improve their level of expertise in the care of severely ill infants.

The reason my brother took her out of public schools was her (then) latest curriculum which included classes like "creative spelling" and "math concepts". The goal for creative spelling was to write book reports using whatever strings of characters and punctuation the student chose, in any random order. As long as the student could orally relay the content of the report it would be considered correct. Much like math concepts where the student is presented with a simple math problem like 5+7=? If the student put down 12 or any answer greater than 12 it would be considered correct because the student understood the "concept" that when you add numbers together they get bigger. My brother asked exactly when the students were supposed to learn the correct answers and how to spell and use punctuation correctly. The teacher's response was, "They will get it eventually."

Look around. Did they get it yet?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Bah, ever hear of self taught, 'self-read' ?

More intelligent people don't need to learn from curriculum, their natural curiosity leads them where they desire to go.

If I lived in Germany in the 30s and get a degree in Nazi ideology, is that intelligent?

Smart people were leaving the country, not embedding themselves in it.

Just like smart people want to leave the US right now.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Creative thinking was banned by the schools and corporate culture nearly a century ago.

Now all creative thinking is stifled by fake leadership due to nepotism and people acquiring not skill or intent based positions but positions because they rubbed someone the right way or they got an Ivy League degree and it impresses people.

Do you correlate education with intelligence??

Yes
And Wisdom with life experience.

college doesn't educate you. It schools you. It puts you into a group think mind like a school of fish.

the education system is a 12 step program to get you to not question authority.

Intelligent people are opting out of college education in greater numbers because the degrees are too expensive in relation to what they really give you.

What we should do is return to systems like apprenticeships especially in high tech fields like programming because the field changes too fast for academia to keep up.

For example, I checked into a local community college on their drafting programs because I wanted to learn 3d modeling for 3d printing, they didn't even have any classes in 3d modeling only the usual autocad/microstation courses, and they required like 60 credit hours in courses like humanities. The internet has as much information on the humanities as all their textbooks.

I ended up using a community where people put together videos for instruction, costs me $20 a month and I don't have to travel to the campus for courses.

Bottom line is you can't give people an education, they need to want an education and now with the internet people can get educated on their own. Just takes discipline, interest and motivation. Too many people go to college thinking they'll be entitled to a good job.

Doesn't work that way unless your family is wealthy and they can put you in a position somewhere.

Intelligence is something that is demonstrated.

Wisdom is the power behind it.

Education on the matter SHOULD improve the chances of a successful intelligent action or thought.

But there's no mandatory link between the two.

a reply to: SkeptiSchism

Welcome to my world, and I have learned that the world of employment is looking for people that won't leave the job or are moldable. A college degree is a signature that someone can be trained... the merit of it is completely washed down these days. I ended up getting kicked out of high school because I was firm on indicating that I won't do homework off school hours. I passed all my tests easily, but not conforming is an educational death sentence. Some see it as a death sentence while I feel happy for not knowing why I was trusting my gut instincts for good reason when I balked on the free road to success. I could have been easily grand fathered into Annapolis Naval Academy if I conformed, but I chose free will instead. It was always an odd pill to swallow when I walked into a robotics factory as a line tech, and 6 engineers are standing around waiting for my tinkering to allow the QC robotics to pass the inventory through.

Entrepreneurship is the path I was offered in the end. I can tell you one thing... I do not hire anyone with a college degree that was paid for out of pocket and holds debt. Corporate wellness is my gig, and a smart company in this day and age should be hiring good attitudes and nurturing those traits to skills learned in the trenches.

Your apprenticeship idea is spot on... and the apprentices that are worthy in the end should be made owners of the company they work for. Employee owned businesses that use education as job training at the company's expense while on company time is advised for businesses that want to live through the AI age.

I am not even putting my kids through school... they are just going to grow up around a healthy business, and learn from teachers hired by the company. The children learning will be attached to the HR network offered to all employee and family members. I promote learning rather than education...

"Education" is but 'software', "Intelligence" is the 'hardware'.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

. A strong curriculum aids that natural curiosity. With out that natural curiosity that curriculum becomes programming.

Institutionalized curriculum is brainwashing.

You seem to agree somewhat. Brainwashing, programming, indoctrination. You seem focused on the potential negative side of institutional education. I recognize that aspect though I still hold to the bennificial aspects if undertaken by a person with intelligence. A non intelligent person certainly would be ore prone to suffering those negative aspects.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
As I type this, the top thread is by "theantediluvian" this thread has may parts, but the part I found interesting it talks about high education vs low education states. How many people really believe that a college degree is a sign of intelligence?

In America, basically anyone can go to college. There are so many degrees that anyone with any intelligence level can obtain.

So do you believe people with a college degrees are smarter then people without college degrees?
Do you believe people with college educations make better neighbors then people without a college degree?

This type of claim is the same type of claim that says people are bright, smart and clever if they are born at a certain time of the hour, day, week, month or year, or conversely, the opposite.

Things are just not like that because all humans are at varying stages of their evolution and they all set themselves various tasks and lessons to learn in this world before they are even born.

If we decide to learn what its like to be disabled in this life then at some point in this life we will become disabled and so with many other things.

I like most others are from struggle town but who knows, I may have been wealthy, or bright, smart and clever in a previous life. Conversly, those who are wealthy now might never be wealthy again for many, many lives to come.

The only difference education makes to a person is the knowledge and skills they aquire as a result of the eductation. Dont forget life is an education in itself. The University of Life Epxereince is the greatest unitversity their is. Its been around for centuries and will still be around in for centuries to come.

You're born with intelligence.
Education brings knowledge.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

So here's a conundrum, what happens if a person is highly educated yet lacks common sense ?

My answer is they are highly educated fools, these people have a high IQ which is all well and good but it's not a sign of intelligence .

One of the most intelligent persons I have known lost her family as a child and lived pretty much anywhere she could find shelter from the elements since she was a young child.
She spent a lot of time in libraries.
No more than a second grade education.
She is extraordinarily well read with street smarts that can't be topped.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You left out conditioning. Like boot camp then military service, a higher education "degree'' is preparation for plugging into workaday ethic till your used up and spent-- I mean retired.

Just one programming aspect for life in the Matrix. Sure not everyone falls into this 'trap', but the process is designed to produce as many good serfs, minions, stooges as possible.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
As I type this, the top thread is by "theantediluvian" this thread has may parts, but the part I found interesting it talks about high education vs low education states. How many people really believe that a college degree is a sign of intelligence?

In America, basically anyone can go to college. There are so many degrees that anyone with any intelligence level can obtain.

So do you believe people with a college degrees are smarter then people without college degrees?
Do you believe people with college educations make better neighbors then people without a college degree?

Institutionalized education today is simply another form of social engineering. Those who control the lesson plan for today, ultimately control the dissimenation of information.

The cost of higher education has only increased over the past 50 years. Universities have slowly morphed into expensive condominiums with premium amenities where ‘rape culture,’ and liberal science prepare the students to conform to mainstream society.

The ability to inform yourself is not something you can teach a person, nor is it bound by any monetary value. It is, however, intrinsically valuable to one’s own evolution and survival, thus making it priceless.

A better discussion to have would be:

How do we define intelligence?

&

Can intelligence be measured empirically?

Or even:

Is there any objective quality to intelligence, or is it merely an abstract construct we infer through perception?

Talk amoungst yourselves.

A college education with a degree is a measure of whether an individual can start something and take it through to completion. The grade point average measures how much quality is put into something.

Just because someone has a college degree doesn't mean they have to know everything as soon as they walk through the door. Most have general knowledge, specific knowledge if they have experience, and know the fundamentals, which garners creativity. That is why they score the management roles.

Non-educated workers tend to learn their jobs through repetition and have difficulty moving to different disciplines in an organization.