Current Immigration standards versus Merit Based Immigration System

originally posted by: matafuchs
I think we should stop all immigration for two years. we have to look in our own backyard and not have to worry about our borders.

Unless you halt all tourism that wont work.


And a complete immigration ban would wreck the medical and science fields as they rely on international talent.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Theprodicalson
a reply to: DBCowboy

Why should the USA accept the dregs of the world?

The only exception i see is if the USA has actively ruined that country (iraq), other than that the USA should be entitled to only let the best and brightest in.

Rationally, you are correct.

But there is a humanitarian element that we really shouldn't ignore.

Should we?

Usa cant fix the world.

And its got plenty of its own citizens living in 3rd world conditions.

Cant see how its just to try and fix other countrys problems when you have people in places like detriot living in slums without drinkable water.

a reply to: Admitted

Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton famously debate this topic.

It's the only topic they could ever agree upon.

a reply to: Theprodicalson

"International talent" aka cheap Indian guys that they can pay a penny on the dollar for.

I don't think we're allowing enough immigrants in south of the border. This is why so many "illegals" are crossing the border to find work. I support more security on our border, but they need to allow people across the Mexican border to more easily come here legally and work. What does merit have to do with it? If they're healthy they can probably work. That's the only requirement. And unlike many coddled americans, they'll do hard messy work for long hours most days of the week. Undocumented commonly work in agriculture and fisheries, and probably other. Our economy needs those people. We're being dishonest about a lot of things. Corruption, bureaucracy and bloat infected the system.

And this:
www.washingtonpost.com - Alabama tried a Donald Trump-style immigration law. It failed in a big way....

It's true automation is a threat to low skill jobs, but I don't think it'll happen immediately. As always, it takes time to implement. Over the next 75 years some jobs will be automated, some will be added, but overall I think our labor force participation rate will shrink and our number of students will increase. Things WILL change, like lifestyle changes to cut costs, but not immediately. I think our fears and popular imagination exaggerates the pacing. Because it happens slower, it gives us hte ability to adapt. It's never easy though.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Theprodicalson

"International talent" aka cheap Indian guys that they can pay a penny on the dollar for.

No, a surgeon, doctor, scientist or technician who has a very particular skill thats needed.


Working once in pharmaceuticals we regularly had to bring people over for a year or two on contracts to either fix a problem or train us in a new and noval technique.

Most big companies are international with R&D split between say the USA, Ireland, UK and Germany. If one team has a break through, one person needs to come over to other sites.


Then you have renowned surgeons who travel alot, training other surgeons in new techniques ect

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Admitted

Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton famously debate this topic.

It's the only topic they could ever agree upon.

Yeah, and they're gone and here we are.

Aside from the fact that every country is a sh*thole in some way or another...
A sh*thole country doesn’t equal sh*thole citizens.

And any type of societal value or “merit” is not always recognised prior to assimilation either.

Da Vanci likely wouldn’t have had the qualifications to enter one of the modern day “merit based” nations...
But with hindsight of his capabilities not a single one of them would reject him either.

I wouldn’t entirely rule out “merit” exceptions, for specific fields.
Rocket science, advanced medicine etc.

To blanket it across all possible occupations is not really conducive long term though.
Because soon you’ll only be letting in a tiny amount of people from a very minimal selection of specialities and the economy goes bye-bye.


How about a balance?
That seems to be most the successful approach in all walks of life.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

And didn't we get all sorts of "goodness" from those german scientists? Smart guys...they had all the best reasons for citizenship.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Personally, I'm ambivalent. I can see both sides of the issue. But I may change my mind.

It's actually the children and grand children of the immigrants that end up contributing the most.

Look at Donald Trump. He's a descendant of immigrants. But, he's not first generation.

It takes awhile to adapt and fit in to the new nation, and to make the most significant contribution several hurdles have to be overcome, which usually take a generation or two.

So, the initial immigrant isn't as critical as you might think.

a reply to: toysforadults

And yet, plenty of foreign workers come here on H1-B visas with foreign degrees and work in skilled jobs all the time. So there is clearly a double standard at play.

Is it that American corps don't recognize the value of foreign educations or that they simply don't want to pay American wages to workers from the US foreign born or no if they can get an H1-B instead?

My great grandparents came here to avoid Nazification. Gypsies werent well liked in Hungary. They would never have made it through a merit based system. But they assimilated as fast as they could. None of their children ended up knowing Hungarian or the ways of the gypsies. I didnt know we even were gypsies until recently....my grandfather never told us.

Im interested in the debate myself....i see both sides of the discussion.

The power of the internet means there is no need for travel. You can collaborate anywhere in the world. No talent would be lost there is plenty here in the US.

My pause is not out of fear or anger or racism or hate. It is about love. Look. There are those who come to this country, with a promise of something bigger who wind up homeless or without work and then they become a burden to the already taxed system. It is happening for real right now in Florida with the Puerto Ricans who have 'immigrated' legally. We cannot handle it but you still have all of these politicians from the Mayors to the Governor of both regions to the House members telling them to come we can help you but there is not enough help. It was not planned correctly but there are roughly 200k new resident here and the vast majority are settling just outside of Orlando. The homeless problem was already out of control. Crime. Hospitals. Schools. Already stretched beyond limits. It is not about not wanting to help but having the resources. When the photo ops are done there are still families on the streets far away from home with nothing.

All that legal path to immigration is far outweighed by the illegal path. Large Agro and Livestock corporations hire illegal immigrants all the time.

Token arrests are made so as not to affect production. Both the gubment and corporate heads of state looking the other way.

Gotta keep up appearances...

a reply to: DBCowboy

Don't you know?
Judging someone by the content of their character is... RACIST!!!

originally posted by: Theprodicalson

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Theprodicalson

"International talent" aka cheap Indian guys that they can pay a penny on the dollar for.

No, a surgeon, doctor, scientist or technician who has a very particular skill thats needed.


Working once in pharmaceuticals we regularly had to bring people over for a year or two on contracts to either fix a problem or train us in a new and noval technique.

Most big companies are international with R&D split between say the USA, Ireland, UK and Germany. If one team has a break through, one person needs to come over to other sites.


Then you have renowned surgeons who travel alot, training other surgeons in new techniques ect

Well, there ya go, MERIT based.

originally posted by: JAY1980
a reply to: DBCowboy

Don't you know?
Judging someone by the content of their character is... RACIST!!!

It could be.

Depends on how you interpret character.

Like, is it the way they speak?

a reply to: AMPTAH

What do you think MLK thought it meant?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AMPTAH

What do you think MLK thought it meant?

None of the folks we are discussing today really qualify.....