Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

Everyone is baffled, trust me.

When we talked, I suggested that perhaps the phenomenon could adjust
the "universal" constant, the "Higgs Constant", which is in part responsible
for "mass" to be "physically massive".

That might explain stuff like "angel hair" which fades out eventually...

but the pseudo "industrial slag" - that is anybody's guess right now.

a reply to: mirageman

I'm reminded of The Maury Island Incident since slag was reportedly collected.

And an interesting case that one. Full of intrigue.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: mirageman

I'm reminded of en.m.wikipedia.org...The Maury Island Incident since slag was reportedly collected.

And an interesting case that one. Full of intrigue.

I suppose this could all be deception... someone could be deceiving the scientists
without them knowing it.

But in this case anyway, I doubt it. in 1957 the technology did not exist to purify
magnesium like that.. or at least probably didn't.

Most of the existing technology was to purify U238 out of mixed uranium isotopic
ore.

It also doesn't follow the usual deception pattern.. "they" usually go big..
when it comes to deception.. not something this unexciting to the average
person.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: mirageman

So did I catch Vallee right in that he dated the samples he was talking about to 1947?

If so that's suggestive of 2 or 3 specific incidents maybe?

No, the samples are from the Ubatuba incident. It seems that they
were able to obtain all 3 of the known, original samples.

Kev

I am not doubting you at all. Plus earlier in the interview Jacques does mention the samples from Ubatuba (which was 1957 - Brazil?).

However I will draw your ears to listen again to what he says from this point in the interview : Clicky Link

I definitely hear 1947!! Do you?

a reply to: mirageman

Regardless of what he said, he meant 1957.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No I don't think so. The context of what he's saying also revolves around the late 1940s time line not 1957. He's also just explained about the mysterious isotopes. Anyone else hearing this or am I jumping to a conclusion here?

a reply to: mirageman

I just know that when I spoke to him about this, we were discussing
Ubatuba in 1957.

If on the youtube he also had "Roswell" in mind, I have no idea.

The guys a national treasure, doing important work.. I bug him too much
as it is.

i'm sure that if "Roswell" is involved, or 'umm... being played" we'll hear
about it soon.

Kev

Speaking of the "industrial slag," can anyone tell me what the composition of that metal is? I saw a reference to it but can't find it now.

Thanks!

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Speaking of the "industrial slag," can anyone tell me what the composition of that metal is? I saw a reference to it but can't find it now.

Thanks!

Mostly very pure magnesium, with some of the expected earthly AND "space"
isotopes missing plus a little zinc and other trace elements no doubt.
That's the big picture. i don't have exact information.. and neither do they
quite yet.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I could be very wrong but the material from Ubatuba doesn't sound like the same material Dr. Valle is describing when he states the year as 1947?

Also, the lineage of the Ubatuba materials are pretty shaky to base much "science" on.

Sure would like to know one way or another about the 1947 statement.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I could be very wrong but the material from Ubatuba doesn't sound like the same material Dr. Valle is describing when he states the year as 1947?

Also, the lineage of the Ubatuba materials are pretty shaky to base much "science" on.

Sure would like to know one way or another about the 1947 statement.

Wouldn't we all.

And I completely agree about "chain of custody issues".

Kev

a reply to: AboveBoard

So if I translate this into reading between the lines of DeLonge's books, the UAPs are "secreted" from energy into matter...

...the energy equivalent of one kilogram of mass is

89.9 petajoules
25.0 billion kilowatt-hours (≈ 25,000 GW·h)
21.5 trillion kilocalories (≈ 21 Pcal)[33]
85.2 trillion BTUs[33]
0.0852 quads
or the energy released by combustion of the following:

21 500 kilotons of TNT-equivalent energy (≈ 21 Mt)[33]
2630000000 litres or 695000000 US gallons of automotive gasoline

source


so using the energy released by the largest nuclear bomb ever detonated (50 megatons) you could in theory get just under 2.5 kg of matter, but you'd need similar conditions to the centre of a star to do it (and conditions similar to a supernova for elements heavier than iron), so probably not the easiest way to make a ufo.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Speaking of the "industrial slag," can anyone tell me what the composition of that metal is? I saw a reference to it but can't find it now.

Thanks!

In general it's a waste product left after removing the impurities from iron, copper, and other metals.

The Maury Island case was in 1947 and I did a thread on it a while back. But I didn't pay any attention to to the debris claimed to have fallen from the UFO. It all seemed to have been a hoax but it also sounded a bit like a story Jacques Vallée told in that interview. Maybe worth another look?

The Ghost Rockets over Scandinavia (and a few other European nations) in 1946/1947 also left trace evidence again dismissed as 'slag'. Nothing much of substance was really recovered. But in one case an object appeared to fall into Lake Kölmjärv and the debris was said to be "...a lightweight material, possibly a kind of magnesium alloy that would disintegrate easily". See wiki.

Some 'earthlight' type cases have been found with traces of silicon, iron, calcium and scandium. I haven't really been able to find out much more and whether there are unusual isotopes present.

The Roswell debris stories of memory metal seem way off.

But I am guessing that the technological progress we've made in the years since 1947 means we can produce a much better analysis of these materials.

Of course the bigger question is where did they come from if Dr. Vallée's original analysis is confirmed.

Absolutely fascinating stuff...can't wait til they publish! This also makes me wonder what other 'metals' the govt(s), US and others, may have recovered from various (alleged) downed craft reported over the years.

a reply to: aynock

Exactly.

Unless we are don't know some very basic things about physics yet,
and that is pretty much certain.

We don't know what 95% of the Universe is even made of yet.

"we" live in the 5%.

What lives in the 95% ?

(so-called dark energy and dark matter)

a reply to: mirageman

The misnomer here, is that so-called UFO slag is supposedly "mighty pure".
It's almost like the good part was discarded and the bad part retained.

Kev

Regarding Vallee, the Ubatuba Crash Material and Isotopes.

In the aviation forum is a sometimes observable phenomena known as crazy bassplyr speculation time. below I present some crazy bassplyr speculation for you to peruse.

my take on the material from ubatuba is this.

magnesium has been long known and extensively used as a primary material used for superconductors because it's cheap, easy to get and easy to work with.

there's a thing called isotope effect in superconductors.

From what i understand, which is not a lot, is that superconduction requires phonon "vibrations" (not photon) between the charge carriers (electron Cooper pairs) to transmit the electrical conductivity with no resistance.

There are optimal frequencies for the phonons that are harmonic to the charge carriers and allow for superconduction to occur at warmer temperatures instead of super cool temperatures like normal.

Different isotopes numbers (species) of the types elements that make up the superconductor material have varying degrees of efficiency in transmitting those vibrations. Some are closer in accord and are more suitable to use if you are trying to make a more efficient room temperature operating superconductor or rise the temperature range in which the superconductor will actually superconduct.

this Isotope Effect is even being looked at in studies to increase the depth the superconducting effect penetrates into a material being used to superconduct. (superconduction usually occurs closer to the surface of the material. ) making it so that more of the material actually superconducts would be a big boon. You'd be able to get the same superconduction effect with less material, saving weight, cost and manufacturing time.

One could speculate that the material from the ubatuba wreck is a superconductor with synthetic magnesium isotopes of various species (isotope number) to better take advantage of the Isotopic Effect in superconductors. Maybe throw in a few different species of magnesium isotopes to cover a wider range of temperature or experiment with better superconducting efficiency.

In the late 40s to early 50s a huge surge in superconductor science and research occured.

One of the main theories on superconduction is called Bardeen-Cooper-Schrieffer theory. (BCS Theory) it was considered incomplete as it doesn't explain everything especially high temperature superconduction. However things like Isotope Effect are believed to have filled in some of the holes in the theory.

You say the crash happened in 1957. Bardeen and Cooper came out with their BEC theory in April of 1957. A few months later something utilizing a superconductor (in my opinion) happens to crash in October.

BEC theory is basically the conjugation of various superconducting papers and research going back (in the public sector) to 1948.
Wouldn't you know it. Ubatuba is near Sao Palo, pretty close to Argentinas border. And, we all have heard about the rumors of Nazi scientists going to Argentina for asylum and continuing their experiments. Everybody knows experiments like the Nazi bell utilized mercury. Mercury happens to be the first thing scientists discovered could superconduct, which was in 1911. Its almost as if the Germans were trying to crack the superconduction thing ten years earlier than the rest of the world.

In 1947 something crashed in new mexico, most likely military, that was being covered up desperately. A few years earlier the usa was salivating and succeeding at the idea of getting all the german scientists to come work on military aerospace projects in the USA. Around the same time of that 1947 crash in the same vicinity were many of those same german scientists doing work for the USA. Was the USA privy to Germany's experiments into superconduction decades earlier and were working hard to crack that nut too. If so, I'm sure they'd want to cover up their experiments into superconduction with wacky stories so that their adversaries didn't catch on.

In 1987 room temperature superconduction was discovered, which Isotope Effect is believed to be one of the mechanisms behind the process. You know the old saying military science is 10, 20, 50 years ahead of the public sector.

I dunno. Things sorta seem to fall in place.

I theorize that ubatuba material is human made, and intended to be used in something that would like to utilize superconduction at temperatures above freezing. no alienz involved.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I was looking into part of what you are posting about, that's why I asked JV a question about
the Isotope assay. (I was thinking about whether the nuclear spin was congruent between
the presenting isotopes). That got me reading about super conduction.

I'm always thinking that you postulate science being at a level about 50 years ahead of
what it actually is... that our tech level is actually less, not more than people wildly
postulate it is.

That in fact, the bogus talk about black projects and supertech is all part of the same
cover.. as "ufos".

Now there IS some interesting tech out there.. and some "interesting woo" out there..
but I find both to be vastly exaggerated.

Kev

Oh might as well ask you...

the (supposed) 10,000+ newspaper reports about phantom airships... toilets and kitchen
appliances falling out of the air and landing on people's cows in the late 1800's and early
1900's .. that was regular tech too?

PPS: all that said.. not a bad theory you posit.

Kev

the Maury island slag incident.

as everybody who reads the aviation forum here knows. plasma if not very precisely controlled when it comes in contact with an aircraft's skin can turn said skin into confetti.

crazy bassplyr time again.

what if the skin of the craft from the Maury island incident was utilizing plasma...for....reasons. what if something malfunctioned and the plasma made uncontrolled contact with the vehicles skin and started to wreak all sorts of havoc on said skin. maybe the material of the skin had imperfections (perhaps during its manufacturing ) and began to ablate raining chunks of slagg down.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Oh I'm 99% convinced that it's plasma vortex effects that's behind this slag.
But that's when I stop looking into my crystal ball. (metaphor)
I can't take it further than that.