Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: Willtell

I think most people who have been observing or participating in UFOlogy since at least the late 80's, look at the whole situation as you do. The Doty dupe, will not be forgotten

However, those same people also realize, "Disclosure" as the masses see it, is not going to happen. There will be no announcement, no public address. And it will especially not come from those who have actively participated in keeping the secret for so long. No government will give power away, they work in the opposite direction.

The best we can hope for, is that they mess up, somehow, something gets out that's undeniable. Which is why I still hold onto a bit of hope with this whole situation. The playing field has changed so much since Doty, I don't think the controllers know how to adapt. They've been doing the same old schtick since the 50s.

That's why I like this thread so much, it shows how they keep stumbling. The power of the internet may bring their world tumbling down

originally posted by: pigsy2400

Also the main staypoints within ufology like Roswell for example, the cause of the incident was changed no less than three times by the government in theory public investigations.

I'm a recent supporter (after FINALLY reading the damn reports) of the USAF's explanations after they were sick of the UFO mob and deplorable antics of former Roswell military personnel lying through their teeth for a quick buck by adding secondary and even tertiary crash sites, including bodies. Their 1994 Mogul report was imperfect, but the 1998 'Case Closed' report hoovered up all the nonsense, bare-faced lies, alleged bodies (due to faulty dates that most likely DID coincide with 50s test dummies) to neatly, yes: close the case IMO.

As I often say, Brazel found the debris on 14th June 1947 (pre-Arnold), stuffed the tin foil and broken sticks under some brush until the $3000 media Reward dragged his ego to the Sheriff's office three weeks later, shamelessly lying that he'd witnessed the crash on 4th July. The silly sod should never have mentioned the 14th June find to his mates and neighbours! That's where the case should have closed immediately.

As an amusing aside and a strained attempt to keep this on-topic re "finding exotic materials", eight years after Roswell, Nigel Kneale's acclaimed 1955 BBC serial 'Quatermass II' opens with a farmer witnessing a crash and strange debris in his field, becoming rather proprietorial about it despite UK armed forces seeking out these mysterious 'pods'. A 1970 Doctor Who serial, 'Spearhead From Space', pinched that idea wholesale, presenting this amusing exchange between Braz... I mean the farmer (Seeley) and a military captain (Munro). The BBC blocks YouTube clips, so this will make do...

SERGEANT: Civilian here, sir. Wants to know how much reward for finding a thunderball.
MUNRO: What's your name?
SEELEY: Seeley, sir. Sam Seeley.
MUNRO: And where do you live, Mister Seeley?
SEELEY: Local, sir. Brook cottage.
MUNRO: All right. So, you've got something to tell us about these meteorites?
SEELEY: Me, sir?
MUNRO: You asked if there was a reward for finding one.
SEELEY: Ah, that's right.
MUNRO: So you know where to find one?
SEELEY: I never said that, sir.
MUNRO: Then why are you interested in a reward?
SEELEY: Well, well, in case I might happen come across one like.
MUNRO: Where you out the day those meteorites landed?
SEELEY: Meteorites? Don't know about that. Thunderballs I calls them.
MUNRO: So you were out?
SEELEY: I might have been. Then again, I might not.
MUNRO: Did you see any of them land? Mister Seeley, I want the truth!

Heh.

a reply to: Chronic_Blaze

Everything you said I totally agree with.

The only disclosure will happen as some real event which likely will never occur.

I don’t buy any of TDL’s stuff. I don’t believe they have real bodies of aliens. And even if they do or even showed us some “alien bodies” how do we know where they're from or what they are, and aren’t manufactured in America, or maybe farmed out today to Chinese manufacturing!

My only exotic belief regarding UFOs and “aliens” is that some are here because of nuclear energy and the power of this lost creature called the human being to destroy the earth and part of the solar system.


It’s all too surreal

a reply to: Chronic_Blaze

Cliche no it doesn't

a reply to: LeighAnne

originally posted by: mirageman
Well, well of all the forums out there and all the threads to choose from you just happen to walk into mine. With your first post as well just after another character gets the kibosh.

No idea what's going on - as usual - but how many characters on ATS (and elsewhere) has this particular character had? Is it a never-ending spiral?

It's not even subtle.

originally posted by Willtell

My only exotic belief regarding UFOs and “aliens” is that some are here because of nuclear energy and the power of this lost creature called the human being to destroy the earth and part of the solar system.

But what about the sightings that date back centuries - not just the 1890s flap - related in their own terms and interpretations of the time?

I sincerely believe that if there is something here, it has been here a long, long time and a resident of our planet in ways that are probably incomprehensible. Oddly, that was UFO-Daddy Kenneth Arnold's ultimate conclusion by the 1970s as we all start to board the 'Vallee Quantum Tours' bus on a destination to somewhere we'll never comprehend anyway.


That's my only semi-belief, and not just because I re-watched that 'Twin Peaks' clip - ie no need for MM to post it yet again!

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I know alot have written off Vallee and my take on him may surprise some others on here, but don't think we should discount him completely.

He has some interesting thoughts on the subject, he has admittedly abandoned some of hus original ideas behind himself, but when you get past some of the stuff.......well it's just interesting to see things from his perspective, especially considering his background and hobbies...

a reply to: pigsy2400

Vallee is the best researcher the field has ever had. Regardless of the path his views took, he always used science to study the phenomenon

ConfusedBrit, his research never ruled out the history of the phenomenon in humanity's past either. That's another key reason as to why UFOs are so fascinating in the present.


Back to the TTSA Train; ALL ABOARD!: Zondo's got a new blog post up today:
medium.com...@luis_elizondo/why-social-stigma-about-unexplained-phenomena-holds-humanity-back-e0171cfc3e6a

weird the link won't work. type medium.com then this: /@luis_elizondo/why-social-stigma-about-unexplained-phenomena-holds-humanity-back-e0171cfc3e6a

Why Social Stigma About Unexplained Phenomena Holds Humanity Back

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

But what about the sightings that date back centuries - not just the 1890s flap - related in their own terms and interpretations of the time?

I don’t know, maybe some of the AA theory has some merit.

But today it seems to be a plethora of sightings some kind of cosmic operation going on.

But today it seems to be a plethora of sightings some kind of cosmic operation going on.

Occam’s razor applies and these massive sightings coming after the WWII nuclear bomb is no coincidence, IMO.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I know alot have written off Vallee and my take on him may surprise some others on here, but don't think we should discount him completely.

I'm relatively new to the topic in the 21st century (certainly as far as online discussions are concerned and any forms of consensus therein), having only dug deeper online since the AATIP revelations last December and lurking on ATS until joining some 3 weeks ago.

For tidiness in such a wild field, my brain cell tends to tackle just one or two cases at a time, but going in deep. Eg Skinwalker, Rendlesham.

I have no idea why Vallee has been generally discounted - can you or Chronic_Blaze give me a brief lowdown? Only if you feel like it!

It's good to learn.

originally posted by: Willtell

Occam’s razor applies and these massive sightings coming after the WWII nuclear bomb is no coincidence, IMO.

One aim I have is to dig VERY deeply into the period 1900 to 1946, pre-Arnold /Roswell, going further back than just Foo Fighters and the 1942 L.A. Panic etc.

Perhaps curious corners of that History can provide intriguing answers to the neverending puzzle... Perhaps not. Worth a punt, though.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I don't think Vallee has been discounted like you say. Many people, I think anyway, got upset over his shift from an extraterrestrial hypothesis to an inter-dimensional hypothesis.

Vallee's research as a whole still holds up. It's the best we have in many cases, as here travelled to reports himself (sometimes years after the events) interviewed witnesses firsthand, and even paid out of his own pocket to test materials recovered, even paying to build his own lab. He followed the scientific method during his investigations, that itself is enough to hold him in high regard.

That's not to say everything Vallee says is gospel however. He has been fooled by known liars and tricksters in the past. Unfortunately, I think time caught up with him, and I believe he has left the field to focus on his personal life. It's a shame the field didn't advance enough during his time to bring him (and us) answers. Always, just more questions.

EDIT- If you're new to UFOlogy, reading Jaques original trilogy is a great start to the history of it all

a reply to: Chronic_Blaze

Thanks for the info, much appreciated - the irony being that the IDH is what appeals to me the most!

I guess I must be in a small club - alternatively called 'The GUT Club'.

Small clubs are good, and usually less noisy, although I've witnessed how The GUT's own brilliant IDH-related threads on ATS have suffered disturbing degrees of attempted sabotage and derailment. Very odd.


PS: I'm 'sort of' new to Modern ufology, having read a few books in the 1980s and 90s (inspired by my wife's own "frightening" Black Triangle experience), and only 'Hunt For The Skinwalker' since 2000, which featured various IDH hypotheses.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Personally, knowing the various types of craft spotted by witnesses, I think its entirely possibly that there is more than one answer. Maybe some craft come from one place, other craft from somewhere else. Its not like every UFO ever spotted looks the same. A nod to Jaques would be Coleres, Brazil in '77, there were many different types of craft spotted there.

Both hypotheses have their own merits, but I think it's more likely a combination of both, not one or the other

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: Willtell

Occam’s razor applies and these massive sightings coming after the WWII nuclear bomb is no coincidence, IMO.

One aim I have is to dig VERY deeply into the period 1900 to 1946, pre-Arnold /Roswell, going further back than just Foo Fighters and the 1942 L.A. Panic etc.

Perhaps curious corners of that History can provide intriguing answers to the neverending puzzle... Perhaps not. Worth a punt, though.

Maybe, but it seems the phenomenon is being controlled outside of our knowledge, therefore, how can we ever reach certainty about it.

The basic problem is that no government or conventional scientific organization with access to supercomputers and other high-tech capabilities don’t want to study the issue for many reasons I’m sure.

For example, it would be easy for a computer to gauge and collect all the data of all the known sightings and then make some intelligent deductions

Also, analyze data that can tell us many things about sighting patterns. But nobody wants to do that.

That’s something TTSA should be doing rather than going after all this BS about warp drives.


The very methodology of the lone researcher going around like Indiana Jones is probably bogus.


In order to really have any legitimate information, modern scientific capabilities should be applied not these books written by researchers who really have no capacity to find anything out.

I tell you, it seems to be all a distraction.

I think Vallee is probably as close as anyone with his theories about UFO's. His interdimensional view of this makes more sense that any ET hypothesis to me, and he recognizes the high strangeness in many encounters that you wouldn't likely see if it were a simple nuts and bolts craft from another planet.

I wonder if Skinwalker Ranch played a part in his beliefs -- I believe (not sure if he does) that the ranch activity and UFOs in general are the same phenomena

originally posted by: Willtell


For example, it would be easy for a computer to gauge and collect all the data of all the known sightings and then make some intelligent deductions

Also, analyze data that can tell us many things about sighting patterns. But nobody wants to do that.

That’s something TTSA should be doing rather than going after all this BS about warp drives.

Wise words, mate.

One aspect of NIDS, often overlooked, that promotes said approach was their excellent, exhaustive research into Black Triangle sightings over a specific period.

Which of course ties into my wife's experience.


PS: I keep urging her to write up her sighting in full detail for ATS, but despite the fear she felt from the massive object (witnessed with a friend), she doesn't want to discuss it further.

However, she accepts it was unearthly, "most probably alien", and gets on with her life, leaving me blurting "But but but..." I'm amazed how some just blithely accept the ETH as real and that's THAT, with a "so what?" addendum while the rest of us here twist and turn and endlessly hypothesise.

I'm kinda jealous when all I have in my personal bag is a (admittedly not pleasant) poltergeist experience, witnessed with her at my In-laws' Cornwall home over 20 years ago (albeit in a house previously packed with HS events, including UFOs overhead.)