Single-Payer CRISIS - Britain National Health Service Cancels FIFTY-THOUSAND Operations!.

Very sad developments with the United Kingdom's NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE..

Every hospital in the country has been ordered to cancel all non-urgent surgery until at least February in an unprecedented step by NHS officials. The instructions on Tuesday night - which will see result in around 50,000 operations being axed - followed claims by senior doctors that patients were being treated in “third world” conditions, as hospital chief executives warned of the worst winter crisis for three decades.

MORE AT: townhall.com...

It's tragic that so many people will have to live in pain and distress for AT LEAST 30 days longer than they should. For those of you who have been sick or injured, just a few days of waiting seems like an eternity, doesn't it?

This melting-down of Britain's National Health Service should be an eye-opener for everyone in America who wants government run "Single-Payer" healthcare for all.

For a government run single-payer system to work here, it must be funded properly. Americans must be willing to endure significant tax increases.

And, decisions will need to be made on accessibility by people who are not U.S. citizens. Refugees and people in Britain Illegally, are granted free medical care in the National Health Service system. Needless to say, this adds a lot of additional cost.
Ref: www.fph.org.uk...

-CareWeMust

a reply to: carewemust

So, British Politicians manage to stuff up their system and it becomes the fault of a single payer system.

Australia has a great system, not perfect, but much better than the US model. It is a National Health system and it works.

Don't blame the UK system, blame the Politicians.

The problem with the US system is that it is based on a single purity of GREED!

P

Another factor- a bad flu winter with a lot of patients.

a reply to: carewemust

Is the # of operations due to the aging population?

a reply to: carewemust

Purposefully defunded by successive governments due to pressure from vested interests, including members of govts themselves.

The spin here is BS as expected.

You have, since 1997 had one government running semi privatisation of the NHS through PFI deals, folowed by a tory government that slashed funding and instituted several extra layers of beurocracy and a population that has increased y around 10 million through migration...Its no wonder the NHS is struggling.

I still wouldnt swap it for soemthing that would leave me and my kids slaves to debt forever incase of medical emergencies though.

Right now I can go to any doctor I want and pay for the services I need. In England you are screwed due to Government involvement. I love the freedom I have to choose who I want to see and get done what my doctor and I decide is best for me.

a reply to: Metallicus

Thats great that you are happy with how it is in your country.

It isnt quite as apocalyptic over here as you are being led to believe. No one who gets run over or has a heart attack or any one of a number of things happen to them will find themselves dying without proper medical care.


Telling Brits to give up the NHS is about as pointless as telling Texans to hang up their guns.

a reply to: SprocketUK

If you do not have insurance here in the US it is as apocalyptic as you hear. The price for an injury/illness/medication can and does bankrupt thousand and thousands of Americans a year. Some go bankrupt with insurance.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SprocketUK

If you do not have insurance here in the US it is as apocalyptic as you hear. The price for an injury/illness/medication can and does bankrupt thousand and thousands of Americans a year. Some go bankrupt with insurance.

Is it true that you cant get rid of that debt even after bankruptcy? Like it is always there waiting for you to get some money again in the same way student loans are?

a reply to: pheonix358

How bad would it have to get for you to admit that socialism doesn't work?

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: carewemust

So, British Politicians manage to stuff up their system and it becomes the fault of a single payer system.

Australia has a great system, not perfect, but much better than the US model. It is a National Health system and it works.

Don't blame the UK system, blame the Politicians.

The problem with the US system is that it is based on a single purity of GREED!

P

You know ... your excuse sounds a lot like socialism is great but we just haven't found the right people to run it.

That's a popular excuse for when it fails like it always does.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I can say that medical bills do bankrupt people, but the resulting payments to the hospitals and dr's i don't know. There is a large # of people who cannot afford the ever increasing cost of medications, and the laws have made it illegal to order them from Canada. Canada somehow gets pharma much cheaper.

Obama Care just kicked the can down the road, our political system is rigged by lobby groups to continue this piss poor system that is no better than any other but cost at a minimum 2 times the next highest.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

Is the # of operations due to the aging population?

More a population that smokes and doesn't get exercise. Then you get all sorts of problems like heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, limb amputations. High energy prices and a cold Winter brings on case of flu (=pneumonia = bacterial infection of the lungs), because people can't afford to heat their homes. Cold damp air is the perfect breeding ground for that kind of infection. We end up having people found dead in their homes after months because they froze to death.

The NHS has been used as political football for decades. Both political parties have attempted to impose their agendas on it.

The conservatives closed down mental health care homes because the Victorian properties with high ceilings in leafy green areas made the property speculators excited about the potential for redevelopment. This was called "care in the community", leading to people on the streets being stabbed and killed by those with schizophrenia or paranoia.

They closed down local community care hospitals for the elderly (a halfway stage between a care home and A&E). That's led to bed-blocking, where patients end up on corridors and in ambulances because there are no beds available.
If the councils don't have the money or time to grit roads and pavements, that leads to more slips and falls.

Some services like cleaning were privatized, with the idea that would save money. Nurses can make more money working for supply agencies than working for the NHS directly. That's costing money.

Labour introduced PFI hospitals. The idea was that some private sector businesses could be used to run services like hospital shops and car parking. The profits would be shared between councils and the hospital, but somehow ended up more in the private sector. Car parking brings in more revenue (£150 million) that National Car Parks, due to the charging of doctors, nurses and patients for long term stays.

GP's refuse to work out of hours. mainly due to safety issues in streets and neighborhoods at night. Nurses have taken on many of the duties that GP's used to do; injections, blood pressure measurements, blood samples because of the extra workload.

With one or both parents working, that means that they can only visit the doctor in the evening, so they go to A&E instead. Even with areas with no immigration, I've seen whole waiting rooms on a Saturday evening filled with parents and children - no-one with bleeding wounds, broken bones or burns. Just a plush carpet, wooden chairs, and a ticket machine.

a reply to: SprocketUK

No one dies due to lack of proper care here so long as they seek it, and many who cannot pay are never followed up on. That's one reason why care gets expensive for the rest of us. We end up subsidizing them, but adding a government run system where a hospital's books are managed by an expensive, expansive, and remote government bureaucracy does not fix it.

We see that in our VA system which has fabulous scandals over how it treats its patients all the time ... as bad or worse than anything we hear about the NHS. There is no reason at all to assume that making all of health care operate the same way would improve those already horrible conditions, only expand them to all the rest of us.

a reply to: seasonal

I am not Michael Moore's biggest fan by a long stretch, but I remember he did a film about healthcare that showed how even people with insurance can be denied treatment. It was also quite eye opening to see all the Yanks going to Cuba for treatment in their hospitals

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: carewemust

So, British Politicians manage to stuff up their system and it becomes the fault of a single payer system.

Australia has a great system, not perfect, but much better than the US model. It is a National Health system and it works.

Don't blame the UK system, blame the Politicians.

The problem with the US system is that it is based on a single purity of GREED!

P

You know ... your excuse sounds a lot like socialism is great but we just haven't found the right people to run it.

That's a popular excuse for when it fails like it always does.

Look around, (croni) capitalism is on NHS's heels are far as being unusable and unaffordable. Keep in mind the US system is 2X the cost of NHS.

originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: carewemust

So, British Politicians manage to stuff up their system and it becomes the fault of a single payer system.

Australia has a great system, not perfect, but much better than the US model. It is a National Health system and it works.

Don't blame the UK system, blame the Politicians.

The problem with the US system is that it is based on a single purity of GREED!

P

You know ... your excuse sounds a lot like socialism is great but we just haven't found the right people to run it.

That's a popular excuse for when it fails like it always does.

Look around, (croni) capitalism is on NHS's heels are far as being unusable and unaffordable. Keep in mind the US system is 2X the cost of NHS.

Yes, only 2X! What a shame that is! Imagine ... if we put the government in charge of all of it, that could be 4X or even 10X or more! Think of all the money those blood-sucking parasites in the bureaucracy are missing out on.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SprocketUK

No one dies due to lack of proper care here so long as they seek it

Your infant mortality rate (which is worse than the UK, France, Germany, Austraila, Canada and many other countries with pinko, commie healthcare would seem to be at odds with the above statement, mate.

Anyway, its your country, I wouldnt want to tell you you guys have to do it our way (same as your gun laws, they suit you, not so much us in the UK).

For all its faults (and there are many) There is no way in hell I would want to swap what I have for an American style system.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Is it true that you cant get rid of that debt even after bankruptcy? Like it is always there waiting for you to get some money again in the same way student loans are?

No, that is absolutely not true. Any and all medical debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. They are treated as any other uninsured debt in that process. The only debts which cannot be discharged purely through bankruptcy are child support owed, court ordered restitution/fines for breaking the law, wrongful death legal settlements, and some tax debts. Income tax and student loans are also very difficult to discharge, but depending on circumstances, both can also be fully discharged by the presiding bankruptcy court.