Am I Literallly A Stupid Fool... Or Am I Just Unaware.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

www.gotquestions.org...

Ur of the Chaldees was an ancient city that flourished until about 300 BC. The great ziggurat of Ur was built by Ur-Nammu around 2100 BC and was dedicated to Nanna, the moon god. The moon was worshiped as the power that controlled the heavens and the life cycle on earth. To the Chaldeans, the phases of the moon represented the natural cycle of birth, growth, decay, and death and also set the measurement of their yearly calendar. Among the pantheon of Mesopotamian gods, Nanna was supreme, because he was the source of fertility for crops, herds, and families. Prayers and offerings were offered to the moon to invoke its blessing. When God called Abraham (then called Abram) in Genesis 12:1, He told Abraham to leave his country, his kindred, and his father’s house. Everything familiar was to be left behind, and that included his religion. We do not know what Abraham knew about the true God at that point, but it is likely that he had received some instruction from his father, as each generation passed down their history to the next. As a worshiper of other gods, Abraham must have been surprised to receive a direct revelation from Yahweh. The moon god and other deities were distant objects of worship, and they did not personally interact with men.

There are old written hymns to many deities from old Sumer:

archive.org...

Read that and you will get an excellent idea of the region Abraham came out of. Noah was Terah's and Abraham's ancestor from that region. Noah, nor any of those preceeding Abraham made no covenant with Yaheweh, were not asked to circumcise themselves and were not asked to only worship one God - Yahweh. They did not resemble anything Hebrew. That is why I said Abraham is the first Hebrew. Terah and Noah are ancestors of the Hebrews, their roots in Ur (mesopotamia, Sumer, Babylon). This is the interjection where the Hebrew God created for Himself a people, the jealous God we know in the Old Covenant (Testament). That came from Abraham. It may well be that Yahweh comes from Abram's El.

en.wikipedia.org...(deity)

"El" is everywhere in the Hebrew: Elohom, IsraEL, my Christian name and my surname "MichaEL EL**"

Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion[3] and the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period.[4]

If I was an ET Creator and had to deal with these crazy primates who are very violent and are not intellectually quite formed yet I would enter the scene as a feared Warrior God that had punished the people with a storm before and who people were in awe of through legendary reputation. I have seen this trait in Yahweh, all through the Old Covenant and in the New; He acts in human current affairs as a "player" and demonstrates his omnipotence. As a Christian I am very well able to deal with the fact that He entered the scene with Abraham, manifesting as a deity Abraham could identify with and the rest of the story followed from there. Did not He appear as the "unknown God" when Paul went to bring the Good News to the Greeks as he sought to make more descendants for Abraham?

lwcchurch.org...

Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said 'Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.'" Acts 17:22-25

If you check out Noah and Gilgamesh you will see the coincidences are too great to be ignored. They both are shown to be from the same location. I think the whole flood plain of those regions flooded big time and wiped nearly everything out. I think that a legend grew up around a clansman and his people because he was bright, managed to survivive it by being your typically Hebrew "frugal" and took precautions. I also believe the ET Creator had His Hand upon this chap as He had big plans for his descendants. The actual legend in the Bible is the Hebrew remembrance of that, the version that became the one which the Scribes wrote down. it would have originated as a song/poem (like Homer), as is the "Epic of Gilgamesh". A Hebrew song, another version of Gigamesh and very much a folk tale in terms of exaggeration and "bigging up". Does not Homer do the same about the heroes? They are both religious songs originally; hymns! Some of the oldest writing we know of are HYMNS!

en.wikipedia.org...

www.icr.org...

time.com...

Before Noah: Myths of the Flood Are Far Older Than the Bible

There, I have furnished you with some good places to start research. I have put the time and effort in to this. That is why i do not like it when people do not respect me; when they say that I have written something that I have no written. That is not fair. It is low grade sabotage and an ignorant practise.

People have to write whole books about these subjects. It is very hard to impart this in an environment where fakery of all kinds appear, where everyone lashes at you out of ignorance. At least I have put the effort in to reading this and I ALWAYS make sure I have witnesses to my argument in terms of all the links I use. It is not just me thinking it.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
If so... how is that possible if we accept they all descend from Noah? And his genetic make up?

In the end, we're all descendents from Adam&Eve, including Noah. That doesn't make Noah nor Adam&Eve Jews or Hebrews. Abraham was the first to be referred to as "the Hebrew" (Gen.14:13).

Jews

Definition: As commonly used today, the term refers to people of Hebrew descent and others who have been converted to Judaism. The Bible also draws attention to the fact that there are Christians who are Jews spiritually and who make up “the Israel of God.”

Source: Jews: Reasoning

The first correct and most relevant comment or response in this thread is from DISRAELI. Akragon is wrong when he said:

Noah wasn't a Jew... though he was Hebrew

The bolded part is wrong.

Hebrew

A designation first used for Abram (Abraham), distinguishing him from his Amorite neighbors. It was used thereafter to refer to Abraham’s descendants through his grandson Jacob as well as to their language.

Source: Hebrew: Glossary

The designation “Hebrew” is first used for Abram, distinguishing him thereby from his Amorite neighbors. (Ge 14:13) Thereafter, in virtually every case of its use, the term “Hebrew(s)” continues to be employed as a contrasting or distinguishing designation—the one speaking is of a non-Israelite nation (Ge 39:13, 14, 17; 41:12; Ex 1:16; 1Sa 4:6, 9), or is an Israelite addressing a foreigner (Ge 40:15; Ex 1:19; 2:7; Jon 1:9), or foreigners are mentioned (Ge 43:32; Ex 1:15; 2:11-13; 1Sa 13:3-7).
...
The Law also distinguished “Hebrew” slaves from those of other races or nationalities (Ex 21:2; De 15:12), and in referring to this, the book of Jeremiah (in the seventh century B.C.E.) shows the term “Hebrew” to be then the equivalent of “Jew.”—Jer 34:8, 9, 13, 14.

In later periods Greek and Roman writers regularly called the Israelites either “Hebrews” or “Jews,” not “Israelites.”
...

Source: Hebrew, I: Insight, Volume 1

So coming back to the OP:

If we accept the story, we must also accept that every living person is a descendent of Noah.
There is no way to argue against that.

So how did the non-Jew become a thing, when the sole source of genetics, originated from a Jew.

We may be all descendents of Noah, but we are not all descendents of Abraham, the Hebrew. So yes, there are people who are not Hebrews, or Jews. Allthough the Bible also draws attention to the fact that there are Christians who are Jews spiritually and who make up “the Israel of God.”

Your question is answered very simply: it never happened. The story of Noah and the flood is a retelling of the Epic of Gilgamesh. It, like many other stories from earlier religions and cultures, was taken and incorporated into a new religion (Christianity) that served to glorify a small group of people.
Epic of Gilgamesh flood section

a reply to: Revolution9

Your response was so confusing and rude to the op. It read like something out of "Ghostbusters." Is that where you got all your info?

Thank you, Troolz for your understandable and succinct answer.

The obvious answer is that the story of Noah is made up, or that it was inspired by a great regional flood. I see that another poster has mentioned that it was inspired by a similar story from another culture. I wouldn't take the story of Noah as truth if I were you, I'm serious here. Maybe there is some peer pressure for you to believe this myth?

At any rate, this is a good question. I've never thought of it before. I'm glad that another poster pointed out that Hebrews are descended from Abraham, but that still doesn't answer why there are different ethnic groups. I wouldn't expect it to answer that question, either. I'm interested in the posts in this thread to learn more about the Bible.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: LABTECH767

The one hang up I have is that saying that ethnic Jews (Hebrews if you prefer) started with Abraham, Jacob or Juda (as is the variety of responses being inconclusive), this is essentially accepting a deviation away from the genetic make up that spawned them in the first place, and their ancestors, going all the way back to Noah...

If you’re interested, I created a thread detailing the races and ethnicities of mankind according to the Bible and writings of Josephus:

Noahic Curse: "Japheth dwells in the tents of Shem"

According to Abrahamic-Monotheistic traditions, Noah is not only the patriarch of the Jews, but is actually the patriarch of all the world’s people.

Noah’s three sons, Japheth, Shem, and Ham, went on to diverge into many different ethnicities and races.

Japheth is believed to have fathered the Indo-European People,... Ham is believed to have fathered the Africa People,... and Shem is believed to have fathered all of the various Semitic People.



If you have a difficult time understanding the genetic and cultural divergence from Noah,..... just look at it this way:

• The People of the Balkans separated and diverged into many rival groups, some of which include the Bosnians, Serbians, Croatians, Albanians, and Bulgarians.

• The People of India separated and diverged into several rival groups, including modern India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

• Many modern day Palestinians are actually Jews who converted to Christianity, Islam, or Druzism.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Hazardous1408

Genesis 15:7. And He said to him, "I am the LORD who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it.
...
Genesis 17King James Version (KJV) 17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

The King James Version—How It Became Popular: Awake!—2011

...Over the centuries, many have believed that the King James Version is the only “true” Bible. In 1870, work on a full revision of it started in England. Later a minor American revision of the resulting English Revised Version was published as the American Standard Version.* In a more recent revision, in 1982, the preface to the Revised Authorised Version says that effort was made “to maintain that lyrical quality which is so highly regarded in the Authorised Version” of 1611.

*: [Box/Picture on page 23]

THE AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION

In 1901 the American Standard Version was published. It was based on the text of the King James Version. Its preface states: “We are not insensible to the justly lauded beauty and vigor of the style of the Authorized [King James] Version.” Yet, the American Standard Version made a significant adjustment.

The preface explains this: “The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.”

It is not that the divine name, Jehovah, does not appear at all in the King James Version. It does appear in four places, namely Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; and Isaiah 26:4. The American Standard Version of 1901, however, restored the name to some 7,000 of its rightful places in the Bible.

I find it interesting seeing you quoting from the KJV in which the name "Jehovah" does appear with that particular spelling in English, yet preferring to say Yahweh instead when talking about him. Anyway, this information was so I could share what God's word really and truthfully says at Genesis 15:7 and 17:1, for example, quoting from the ASV:

7 And he said unto him, I am Jehovah that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

17:1

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

"Jehovah appeared to Abram", not the god who has been called by the name "El" by extrabiblical sources. Your terminology "Abram's El" is very confusing when you said:

It may well be that Yahweh comes from Abram's El.

Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31; see NW appendix, p. 1567.

At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).

Canaanite Deities. Extrabiblical sources indicate that the god El was considered to be the creator and sovereign. Although El seems to have been somewhat remote from earthly affairs, he is repeatedly shown as being approached by the other deities with requests. El is depicted as a rebellious son that dethroned and castrated his own father, and also as a bloody tyrant, a murderer, and an adulterer. In the Ras Shamra texts El is referred to as “father bull” and is represented as having gray hair and a gray beard. His consort was Asherah, who is referred to as the progenitress of the gods, whereas El is placed in the role of progenitor of the gods.

While opinions vary, some identify the temple of Dagan as the temple of El. Roland de Vaux, a French scholar and professor at the Jerusalem School of Biblical Studies, suggested that Dagan—the Dagon of Judges 16:23 and 1 Samuel 5:1-5—is the proper name of El. The Encyclopedia of Religion comments that possibly “Dagan was in some sense identified with or assimilated to [El].”

Sources: God: Insight, Volume 1; Gods and Goddesses; Ugarit—Ancient City in the Shadow of Baal

So who were you talking about when talking about "Abram's El"? The god who has been called by the name "El" by extrabiblical sources or Abram's God (as in you were talking half English, half Hebrew)? Cause Jehovah didn't come from Abram's God, Jehovah is Abram's God, or the God of Abraham(, Isaac and Jacob; a familiar phrase often used in the bible). Jehovah is also "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Eph. 1:3).

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Hazardous1408

"El" is everywhere in the Hebrew: Elohom, IsraEL, my Christian name and my surname "MichaEL EL**"

None of which has anything to do with the Canaanite God who has been called by the name El by extrabiblical sources.

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·himʹ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1)
...
At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as ʼelo·himʹ, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8.

Source: God: Insight, Volume 1

(Isʹra·el) [Contender (Perseverer) With God; or, God Contends].

Source: Israel: Insight, Volume 1

The meaning for "Michael" was already given before. The "el" part means "God" in those names. Which still has nothing to do with the Canaanite God who has been called by the name El by extrabiblical sources. Which you seemed to connect by quoting something from wikipedia about this Canaanite God right after mentioning those 2 names: Israel and Michael.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Excerpts from Noahic Curse: "Japheth dwells in the tents of Shem"


Summary of Noah's Sons

The three sons of Noah were named Shem, Ham, and Japheth:

(“Shem, Ham, and Japheth” by J. James Tissot)


• Shem's children and descendants (Semites) spread throughout Western Asia. Shem has been linked to the Hebrews, Israelites, Jews, Arabs, and Bactrians.

• Ham's children and descendants (Hamites) set root in the Levant, Egypt, and Africa.

• Japheth's children and descendants (Japhetites) established nations throughout Anatolia, the Caucasus, the Balkans, and Europe. Japhetites have been linked to the Proto-Indo-European and Indo-European peoples.



Summary of Shem's Sons

The descendants of Shem are known as Semites. The children and descendants of Shem spread throughout the Fertile Crescent, Arabia, and Bactria. The five sons of Shem were classically associated with specific peoples and nations.

Elam was known as the patriarch of the Elamites. The land of Elam was adjacently-east of Mesopotamia, and stretched into southern Persia.

Asshur was the founder of the Assyrian people. The land of the Assyrians lay directly north of Babylonia.

Arpachshad is known as the progenitor of Chaldea and Ur.

Lud is associated with the Mediterranean nation of Lydia.

Aram is the father of the Syrian Aramaeans, whose land lay between the lands of Lud and Asshur.

These, and all of their descendants, are the Semites.



Hebrew Branch of the "House of Shem"

Arpachshad, of Ur, had a son named Salah.
Salah had a son named Eber.

Eber is the Patriarch of all Hebrew people (B'nei Eber), for the word "Hebrew" is derived from his name. He had two sons, the first is Peleg, and the second is Joktan.

Joktan had 13 sons. These sons led two major migrations out of Chaldea. Some of the siblings migrated south along the eastern coast Arabia, and then turned westward toward Africa. These migrating children of Joktan went on to become the forefathers of the ancient "Pure Arabs" (Qahtanian Arabs [Qahtan/Joktan]) of Southern Arabia and Yemen, and the Hebrew-Semites of Ethiopia and the Horn of Africa. The other siblings migrated east into Bactria and India.

Peleg, eldest son of Eber, had a son named Reu.
Reu was the father of Serug.
Serug was the father of Nahor.
Nahor was the father of Terah.
Terah was the father of 3 sons named Abram (Abraham), Nahor II, and Haran.

Haran was the father of the infamous Lot, who escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot had two daughters, who went on the become the mothers of Moab and Ammon, thus being the Matriarchs of the Moabites and Ammonites.

Abram (Abraham), son of Terah, lead the entire "House of Terah," out of the land of Chaldea, and traveled toward the Land of Canaan. Haran died in Ur before the migration, however, his children accompanied the migrating family. The family settled in Haran (Paddan Aram / Aram Naharaim). The patriarch of the family, Terah, and his son Nahor II, lived in this region for the rest of their lives. After spending some years in Haran, Abraham travelled with the rest of his house-hold to Canaan, where they settled and dwelt all the days of Abraham.



Abraham's House

Abraham had 8 sons named Ishmael, Isaac, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah.

Ishmael, first-born of Abraham, had 12 sons and went on to become the Patriarch of the Ishmaelite Arabs. The 12 sons of Ishmael settled in northern Arabia and became known as "Arabized Arabs," (Adnanite Arabs [Adnan]) later dominating the entire Arab world. Islam's Prophet Muhammad is said to have been descended from Ishmael, through the Tribe of Quraysh.

Isaac, Abraham's second son, was father to the twins Esau and Jacob (Israel). Esau became the forefather of the Edomites, while Jacob became the Patriarch of the Israelites.

Abraham's 6 remaining sons; Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah, migrated south, and began to settle and integrate with the "Pure-Arabs" and African Hebrew-Semites descended from Joktan. They were later acculturated into the body of “Pure” and “Ismaelite” Arabs.
(”Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum” (The Sealed Nectar) by Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri)

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The Tower of Babel pre and post is where we get the creation of the different groups . Out of the multitude of groups God chooses Abraham to create a new people (the jews) but even in this story you have Abraham's cousin Lot .

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Noah happened before the Law was passed down. IMO, the Law is what makes one Jewish. Abraham was the first real Jewish patriarch where the Covenant began and the promises began with his son.

The big schism between Jew and Arab began with Abraham's sons Ishmael and Isaac. If you're looking for the current source of the modern troubles, start looking there.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Hazardous1408

The Tower of Babel pre and post is where we get the creation of the different groups . Out of the multitude of groups God chooses Abraham to create a new people (the jews) but even in this story you have Abraham's cousin Lot .

Heh! There's always one in every family.

Speaking of Jews, remember the USS Liberty incident!

As-selamu Alaykum
Shalom Aleichem
Greetings
Howdy-

As You've seen in this thread, folks will be backing their cup of religion™ The old Ford™ v. Chevy™ debate. I'll crawl out on that proverbial limb and opine that their religion™ is boss??

To get what Noah was about, better look at Gilgamesh and then You can see where TheQuorum™ kneaded and massaged the Gilgamesh Flood Tale to fit their agenda, to fit their 'ism' to feed their DOGma..

Then You can see where, according to these same Men, (just Men, nothing "Holy" about them) scrolled out how God would choose a whole section of folks over other of His creations THUS setting up an opposition until the end of time, and to read snippets from these folks they KNOW when that time is, but per their 'rule book' even God doesn't know, but they do...


Hey whatever gets You through the night, but don't go typing about it being 'truth' (TRUTH is something that doesn't change e.g. Old Teste vs. New Teste; ...)

Also keep in mind that TheQuorum™ scrolled out said book some 210+ years after the main character was 'in body'. So it would be like 'The Secret' game where a secret is spread amongst a group and then after a period of time they see how the story changes, it would be like that but multiply it by infinity...

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Personally I think you are playing semantics...

The fact is plenty of Jews refer to themselves as Ethnic Jews...
Which as far as I’m aware is no different than using the term Hebrew.

Or do Hebrews & Ethnic Jews differ genetically...

Ivanka Trump is not a Hebrew or Jew genetically.
She is officially recognized by the Rabbinate of Jerusalem as a Jew.
When she becomes a grandmother, her grandchildren will be ethnic Jews.
If these grandchildren decide to not be religious Jews, they will still be ethnic Jews.

See how semantics and "ethnicity" trump genetics!
So it has been for millennia. The "pure blood" people have accepted refreshing genetic diversity at some times and rejected it at others. Compare it to changing immigration policy.

Genesis 9:27May God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem;

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

So how is it that we have reached a point where there is global acceptance of non-Jews (again, race wise)...
If we accept the story, we must also accept that every living person is a descendent of Noah.
There is no way to argue against that.

So how did the non-Jew become a thing, when the sole source of genetics, originated from a Jew.

It's a very good question.

There's a deliberate "confusion" concerning the term "Jew", and who really belongs to that classification.

Jesus refers to this same issue, about who the real Jews are.

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. -- KJV, Revelation 2:9

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. -- KJV, Revelation 3:9

So, this is one of the "mysteries" of God.

We are not supposed to know who are Jews, and who are Non-Jews. Until the end times, when all is revealed.

Many of those who "claim" they are Jews, will end up worshiping at the feet of the Christians.