The 7 very reasonable laws the Hebrew God requests of the gentiles..

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: projectvxn

well remember the thief on the cross. his only work was having faith in jesus. faith can be a work in itself. all men fall short of heaven unless they believe in jesus AND TRY daily to be as jesus like as possible. trying to do as we should ISa work of faith.

Back then they did not execute thief's as crucifixion was the maximum punishment of the state , not unless they stole the crown jewels , me thinks their is a reason that place is called Golgotha as in Scull-grave think backwards i saw a dead head sticker on a Cadillac


When Jesus is hanging out with the devil up the mountain and the devil says to him bend the knee worship me all this will be yours - well you got to own something to give it away you think a Benjaminite Jew would have caught him on that one

WELCOME TO HELL PILGRIMS

a reply to: yuppa

You can say the same about Thor, Ra or the flying speggetti monster..

You are just filling a hole with what you want.. not filling it with the most logical conclusion or following the evidence to an answer..

Religion has always lived in the dark cornoe of what we don’t understand.

The more we have advanced, the smaller that corner gets, and the more obscure the places people try and cram their gods into..

First god did everything.. now “we’ll maybe he just started the Big Bang”..


Once we understand the Big Bang completely, that goal post will move again to “well maybe he created the multiverse. Then the multiverse created the Big Bang..

a reply to: stonerwilliam

He was executed for preaching things TPTB thought could lead to rebellions to Rome..

Your right the likely didn’t execute thieves by crusifiction much. However they executed people for rebellion when’re able.

a reply to: whereislogic

Yes exactly..

Read the last 2 verses.. the Old Testament specificlly warns the Jewish people not to believe anyone claiming to change the OT laws Until....

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”


Saying there will be NO NEW COVENANT until everyone on the planet inherently knows the Hebrew god..

Guess what Christians claim jesus did???

Changed the laws and started a new covenant..

Something THAT CANNOT HAPPEN until “all the world INSTINCTIVELY knows about the hebrew god and his laws..

That is a big reason none of them buy it..

Most Christians leave out the last 2 verses and pretend “jesus was the new covenant..”

a reply to: JoshuaCox

No, again you are misled and misleading
The law still stands, just not for those who are in Christ
You have put no effort into learning anything yet sprout like you know everything

Go study theology, then get back to the thread with some knowledge
Just falling over every word you type

a reply to: JoshuaCox
The "they" in verse 34 is referring to those whom Jehovah will make a new covenant with, not "everyone on the planet". Remember, it says "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel...them...and they...and they", that's not everyone on the planet. Btw, the text could hardly be said to apply to those who are saying "Know G-d!" Or "know the LORD/Lord!" for that matter.

Israel of God: Insight, Volume 1

This expression, found only once in Scripture, refers to spiritual Israel rather than to racial descendants of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. (Ge 32:22-28)
...
The prophet Hosea foretold that God, in rejecting the nation of natural Israel in favor of this spiritual nation, which includes Gentiles, would say “to those not my people: ‘You are my people.’” (Ho 2:23; Ro 9:22-25) In due time the Kingdom of God was taken away from the nation of natural Jews and given to a spiritual nation bringing forth Kingdom fruitage. (Mt 21:43) To be sure, natural Jews were included in spiritual Israel. The apostles and others who received holy spirit at Pentecost in 33 C.E. (about 120), those added on that day (about 3,000), and those that later increased the number of the men alone to about 5,000 were all Jews and proselytes. (Ac 1:13-15; 2:41; 4:4) But even at that, they were, as Isaiah described them, “a mere remnant” saved out of that cast-off nation.—Isa 10:21, 22; Ro 9:27.

Other scriptures elaborate on this matter. With the breaking off of some “natural branches” of the figurative olive tree, there was a grafting in of “wild” non-Israelite ones, so that there was no racial or class distinction among those that “are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.” (Ro 11:17-24; Ga 3:28, 29) “Not all who spring from Israel are really ‘Israel.’” “For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit.” (Ro 9:6; 2:28, 29) Natural Israel failed to produce the required number, so God “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name” (Ac 15:14), concerning whom it was said, “You were once not a people, but are now God’s people.” (1Pe 2:10) The apostle Peter quoted what had been said to natural Israel and applied it to this spiritual Israel of God, saying it is in reality “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.”—Ex 19:5, 6; 1Pe 2:9.

Hosea 1:10

10 “And the number of the people* [Lit., “sons.”] of Israel will be like the grains of sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ it will be said to them, ‘The sons of the living God.’

Isaiah 43:

5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you.

I will bring your offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] from the east

And gather you together from the west.

6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’

And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.

Bring my sons from afar, and my daughters from the ends of the earth,

7 Everyone who is called by my name

And whom I created for my own glory,

Whom I have formed and made.’

8 Bring out a people who are blind, though they have eyes,

And who are deaf, though they have ears.

9 Let all the nations assemble in one place,

And let the peoples be gathered together.

Who among them can tell this?

Or can they cause us to hear the first things?* [Possibly referring to the first things to come in the future.]

Let them present their witnesses to prove themselves right,

Or let them hear and say, ‘It is the truth!’”

10 “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,

“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,

So that you may know and have faith in me* [Or “and trust me.”]

And understand that I am the same One.

Before me no God was formed,

And after me there has been none.

11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

12 “I am the One who declared and saved and made known

When there was no foreign god among you.

So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God.

13 Also, I am always the same One;

And no one can snatch anything out of my hand.

When I act, who can prevent it?”

Just to be clear, "the house of Israel", the "Israel of God" or "the sons of the living God" know Jehovah, all of them, "from the least to the greatest of them". Jeremiah 31:31-34 has already come true:

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Oh, and there are many covenants discussed in the Hebrew Scriptures, best not to get them confused. Perhaps the following overview can help some people here:

COVENANT

An agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract.
...
In effect, any promise made by Jehovah is a covenant; it is certain to be carried out; it can be relied on with confidence for its fulfillment. (Heb 6:18) A covenant is in force as long as the terms of it are operative and the obligation to perform rests on one or both parties. The results or the blessings brought about by the covenant may continue, even forever.

The Edenic Promise. Jehovah God, at Genesis 3:15, stated his purpose prophetically in the garden of Eden in the presence of Adam, Eve, and the “serpent.”

As to the identity of those involved in this promise and prophecy: The vision given to the apostle John, at Revelation 12:9, informs us that the “serpent” is Satan the Devil. Evidence indicates that the “seed” of the “woman,” long looked for by righteous men, is to be identified with the “seed” of Abraham, Jesus Christ. (Ga 3:16; Mt 1:1) The “seed” was to be bruised in the heel by the serpent. Jesus Christ was put to death, a wound that proved not to be permanent, however, for God raised Jesus out of death. But the “seed” is, in turn, to bruise the serpent’s head, defeating him permanently.
...
Covenant With Noah. Jehovah God made a covenant with Noah, who represented his family, with regard to His purpose to preserve human and animal life while destroying the wicked world of that day. (Ge 6:17-21; 2Pe 3:6) ... Noah’s obediently keeping the terms of the covenant resulted in Jehovah’s preservation of human and animal life. The covenant was completely fulfilled in 2369 B.C.E., after the Flood, when men and animals were again able to live on the ground and to reproduce their kind.—Ge 8:15-17.

Covenant With Abraham. The covenant with Abraham apparently went into effect when Abram (Abraham) crossed the Euphrates on his way to Canaan. The Law covenant was made 430 years later. (Ga 3:17) ...
...God appeared to Abraham again after he had traveled into Canaan as far as Shechem and enlarged on the promise, saying, “To your seed I am going to give this land,” thereby giving an indication of the connection of this covenant with the promise in Eden, and revealing that the “seed” would take a human course, that is, would run through a human line of descent. (Ge 12:4-7) Other enlargements by Jehovah were later expressed, as recorded at Genesis 13:14-17; 15:18; 17:2-8, 19; 22:15-18.
...
The Abrahamic covenant is “a covenant to time indefinite.” Its terms require that it extend on until the destruction of all God’s enemies and the blessing of the families of the earth have been accomplished.—Ge 17:7; 1Co 15:23-26.

In discussing the Abrahamic and the Law covenants, Paul stated the principle that “there is no mediator where only one person is concerned,” and then he added that “God is only one.” (Ga 3:20; see MEDIATOR.) Jehovah made the covenant with Abraham unilaterally. It was in reality a promise, and Jehovah set forth no conditions that Abraham must meet in order for the promise to be fulfilled. (Ga 3:18) Thus, no mediator was needed. On the other hand, the Law covenant was bilateral. It was made between Jehovah and the nation of Israel, with Moses as mediator. The Israelites agreed to the terms of the covenant, making a sacred promise to obey the Law. (Ex 24:3-8) This latter covenant did not invalidate the Abrahamic covenant.—Ga 3:17, 19.

Covenant of Circumcision. The covenant of circumcision was made in 1919 B.C.E., when Abraham was 99 years old. ... God recognized circumcision until the ending of the Law covenant, in 33 C.E. (Ro 2:25-28; 1Co 7:19; Ac 15) Even though physical circumcision was carried on under the Law, Jehovah repeatedly showed that he was more concerned with its symbolic significance, counseling Israel to ‘circumcise the foreskin of their hearts.’—De 10:16; Le 26:41; Jer 9:26; Ac 7:51.

Law Covenant. The Law covenant between Jehovah and the nation of natural Israel was made in the third month after their leaving Egypt, in 1513 B.C.E. (Ex 19:1) It was a national covenant. One born a natural Israelite was, by birth, in the Law covenant and was thus in this special relationship with Jehovah. The Law was in the form of a code, arranged in an orderly way, its statutes grouped together.
...
The terms of the Law covenant were that if the Israelites kept the covenant they would be a people for the name of Jehovah, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, with His blessing (Ex 19:5, 6; De 28:1-14); if they violated the covenant, they would be cursed. (De 28:15-68) Its purposes were: to make transgressions manifest (Ga 3:19); to lead the Jews to Christ (Ga 3:24); to serve for a shadow of the good things to come (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17); to protect the Jews from false, pagan religion and preserve the true worship of Jehovah; to protect the line of the seed of promise. Added to the covenant with Abraham (Ga 3:17-19), it organized the natural seed-nation of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob.

The Law covenant extended benefits to others not of natural Israel, for they could become proselytes, getting circumcised, and could receive many of the Law’s benefits.—Ex 12:48, 49.

How did the Law covenant become “obsolete”?

However, the Law covenant became in a sense “obsolete” when God announced by means of the prophet Jeremiah that there would be a new covenant. (Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:13) In 33 C.E. the Law covenant was canceled on the basis of Christ’s death on the torture stake (Col 2:14), the new covenant replacing it.—Heb 7:12; 9:15; Ac 2:1-4.

Covenant With the Tribe of Levi. ...

Covenant With Israel at Moab. ...

Covenant With King David. ...

Covenant to Be a Priest Like Melchizedek. This covenant is expressed at Psalm 110:4, and the writer of the Bible book of Hebrews applies it to Christ at Hebrews 7:1-3, 15-17. It is a covenant made by Jehovah with Jesus Christ alone. Jesus apparently referred to it when making a covenant for a kingdom with his followers. (Lu 22:29) By Jehovah’s oath Jesus Christ, the heavenly Son of God, would be a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was king and priest of God on earth. Jesus Christ would hold both offices of King and High Priest, not on earth, but in heaven. He was installed permanently into office after his ascension to heaven. (Heb 6:20; 7:26, 28; 8:1) The covenant is forever in operation, since Jesus will act under Jehovah’s direction as King and High Priest forever.—Heb 7:3.

New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) ...

The parties to the new covenant are Jehovah, on one side, and “the Israel of God,” the spirit-begotten ones in union with Christ, making up his congregation or body, on the other side. (Heb 8:10; 12:22-24; Ga 6:15, 16; 3:26-28; Ro 2:28, 29) .. Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the new covenant (Heb 8:6; 9:15) and is the primary Seed of Abraham. (Ga 3:16)

a reply to: whereislogic
For a bit more details regarding the Edenic promise, the "seed", the covenant with Abraham regarding that seed and any other covenant related to that subject:

Or all 4 parts:

Why do we die? Why did Jesus Die? PART ONE

a reply to: Raggedyman

Um ... I have just spent the last week or so watching .. IDK about 10 hours (conservatively) of debates between Christian scholars and Orthodox Rabbis..

And obviously both sides are breaking out their best arguments and evidence.. with counter arguments and rebuttals.

Also that is after a childhood raised as southern baptist. With half my family never missing a day of church.

Yet again you include no counterpoint...

“Nah uh” is not a counterpoint..

a reply to: whereislogic

WHERE DOES IT SAY ANY OF THAT???

According to your/Christian interpretation “them” means “just the Christians”..

Where does it say it will change to a spiritual kingdom?!?!!



It doesn’t...... To the Jews the “them” means everyone not a Jew , AND SPECIFICALLY SAYS PEOPLE WILL NOT NEED TO BE TAUGHT!!!


TO JEWS it means the World. It meant the world in ancient times and to them it means the world today. The Jews do not think God would be weird enough scatter his desires for the Jewish people scattered across the Bible.. where you have to take a little from here, and a little from there.. decide this sentence doesn’t actually believe what it says, it has a deeper meaning you have to infer...


I mean god forbid , he just came out and said it first person unambiguously;

“You will fall out of favor, so I will come to earth in the form of my son (figure that out lol.. my brain almost broke thinking about coming to earth as your on son?!?!) to cleanse your sins with a new covenant that will require you to change all the laws I specifically tell you never to break like 600+ times earlier!”

( I was typing then reading your posts back and forth, but I just realized it says “all of you that I made for my glory . All I formed out of clay...


That sounds like everyone to me..)


It DEFINITELY DOESNT SAY “ALL WHO BELIEVE IN ME AND MY SON BEING THE SAME PERSON”..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

OT says who it is for. hebrews/jews. the NT covenant didnt change the law for them. NT covenant brings all others into the fold by giving them a way to heaven through Jesus. how hard is that to get?

a reply to: yuppa


Where does it say all of that???

You have to take a snippet from here, and a snippet from there.. all out of context according to every Jew ever..

Then you just have to assume it means Christians, because it sure doesn’t mention them specifically, or say “the followers of my son, who is also me”..


Plus where is the part where people don’t have to be taught???

There is no religion people are born knowing...



Also, Then why do christian churches except genetic Jews and converts???

Shouldn’t they be turning them away toward a messianic Jewish sect??

Or maybe back to Judaism till the return??

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic
According to your/Christian interpretation “them” means “just the Christians”..

...


It doesn’t...... To the Jews the “them” means everyone not a Jew , AND SPECIFICALLY SAYS PEOPLE WILL NOT NEED TO BE TAUGHT!!!


TO JEWS it means the World. It meant the world in ancient times and to them it means the world today.
...

From my basic reading comprehension, without interpretation, I conclude that the "them" bolded in your sentence above is referring to the earlier "JEWS" mentioned in the previous sentence. Let's have another look at Jeremiah 31:33,34:

33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”

From my basic reading comprehension, I immediately notice that the "them" and "they" mentioned is referring to "the house of Israel" mentioned in the first sentence. It requires no interpretation. I don't even have to know what or who "the house of Israel" is exactly referring to, to realize this is not referring to the entire world or "everyone not a Jew". Neither does it say "PEOPLE WILL NOT NEED TO BE TAUGHT!!!" (in general). It simply says "they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” (one specific subject). And the "them" or "they" doesn't suddenly change from verse 33 to verse 34, still talking about "the house of Israel". Interpreting that as "everyone not a Jew" is a rather far-fetched or even contradictory interpretation.

The topic of "spiritual Israel" is discussed throughout the bible (both the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures), there's not much point in discussing such a 'beyond the surface'-type of theological subject if the above points about "them" and "they" already escapes you. The biggest clue in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is that Jehovah will write his law in their hearts as opposed to the Mosaic Law which was for natural Israel written on paper and stone. This in turn relates to the following topic:

“Not all who spring from Israel are really ‘Israel.’” “For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit.” (Ro 9:6; 2:28, 29) And the earlier mentioned:

Covenant of Circumcision. ...God recognized circumcision until the ending of the Law covenant, in 33 C.E. (Ro 2:25-28; 1Co 7:19; Ac 15) Even though physical circumcision was carried on under the Law, Jehovah repeatedly showed that he was more concerned with its symbolic significance, counseling Israel to ‘circumcise the foreskin of their hearts.’—De 10:16; Le 26:41; Jer 9:26; Ac 7:51.

For those who want to look into further evidence for a spiritual Israel in the bible:

Spiritual Israel: Index 1986-2016

a reply to: whereislogic

The Hebrew god is already the god of the Jews.. they are already his people.. the first covenant says that. So he can’t be putting the knowledge of himself into them for the first time..

God says he will be including some new people..



It is not me who doesn’t share your interpretation..

It is every Jew in history..



Why did most of the deciples remain Jews??

Why didn’t they convert???

According to the Hebrews it is because they never thought he was Devine and Paul added all that later..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jews wandered the desert for a long time because they refuse to see whats in front of them. So why should we do as they wish us to do?

Jesus was the only smart one apparently.

a reply to: whereislogic

Your in no position to be in these sorts of discussion when you quote from your organization that was heavily influence like the Mormons by Freemasonry;

Jehovah's Witnesses : An Adventist cult The Watchtower Society assumes that its history started with Charles Taze Russell who studied the Bible and discovered numerous biblical truths such as the “prediction of 1914”. On the other hand, they voluntarily forget to mention that their actual history started long before, not with Russell, but with the Baptist preacher William Miller. In 1818 Miller calculated the return of Christ to be 1843. This calculation was based on the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 : "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed," If you apply the principle of one-day equals one year, this brings you to 2300 years starting with the reconstruction of Jerusalem by the Persian Artaxerxes 1 in 457 BC. Thus 2300 minus 457 years bring us to 1843. Much later, Miller states "My principles in brief, are, that Jesus Christ will come again to this earth, cleanse, purify, and take possession of the same, with all the saints, sometime between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844”. Nothing having happened March 21st 1844, a new date was calculated: April 18th 1844. Again nothing. Consequently another new date was projected: October 22nd 1844. Again nothing happened. This latter was coined as “The Great Disappointment” Miller died in 1849 having never seen the return of Christ, but was still convinced of his imminent return. It is estimated that he had between 50 000 and 500 000 followers. A number of followers concluded that the 1844 date in fact was correct, but that it coincided with the coming of Christ in his sanctuary and the beginning of the Judgment Hour. The following are a few of the sects born from this: “The Advent Church, The Seventh-Day Adventists, The Bible Students (Russellites) and of course The Jehovah’s Witnesses. Charles Taze Russell was born from a Presbyterian family. His father was an elite Freemason. Russell joined a Congregational Church but was troubled by the churches teachings of hell, which led him to be skeptical about the church in his early adolescence. By the age of 18 (1869) he participated in a reunion by the Second Adventists, held by Jonas Wendell. What he heard resurrected his faith in the Bible. The Adventists believed that the soul is put to rest after death awaiting resurrection. Therefore, no Hell. Russell studied the Bible and was greatly influenced by many Adventists such as George Storrs, Jonas Wendell, George Stetson and Nelson Barbour. Many of Russell’s doctrines came from the Adventists of the first hour including William Miller’s predictions because of his calculations of date for the return of Christ. One of the major Adventist influences on Russell was Nelson Barbour whom published the magazine “The Midnight Cry” (later named “Herald of the Morning”). Barbour thought Christ would return in a visible manner in 1874. Since nothing happened in 1874, Barbour thought that Christ did actually come, but remained invisible. In 1876, when Charles Taze Russell received a copy of Herald of the Morning, he believed the invisible return of Christ of 1874. He accepted more of the chronologies of events established by Barbour including the calculations of the ‘Gentile Times”. Russell wrote an article about the Gentile Times in the periodic Bible Examiner by George Storrs. Nelson Barbour and Charles Taze Russell joined for the publication of the Adventist magazine Herald of the morning, where Russell became the assistant editor. In Barbour’s chronology, he says that 6000 years since the creation of Adam ended in 1873 and that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874. The harvest would happen between 1874 and 1914 the end of “The Gentile Times”. The Watchtower pretends that the year 1914 was determined by the following calculations: 2520 years minus 606 years B.C.; the assumed date of the fall of Jerusalem (actually known as 587 or 586 before Jesus Christ (BC)). When Russell separated from Barbour to found his own magazine, The Zion’s Watchtower in 1879, he brought these Adventist doctrines with him. Among them he took the ransom doctrine, heaven on earth, critics on the traditional churches, the soul sleep after death and the memorial celebrated once a year by George Storrs. The dates calculated for the return of Christ, the denial of the immortality of the soul and hell, do not come from Jehovah’s Witnesses as they would like us to believe, they actually originate from the Adventists. This leads us to see that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a religion per say but an Adventist cult. Sources : www.premier1.net... en.wikipedia.org...(preacher) Freemason influences : www.info-sectes.org... www.jesus-is-savior.com... Video in 6 parts on Freemason influences (french) : 1-www.youtube.com... 2-www.youtube.com... 3-www.youtube.com... 4-www.youtube.com... 5-www.youtube.com... 6-www.youtube.com... Home Multimedia Books Contact Links Accueil français Jehovah's Witnesses EXPOSED! Compiled and Edited by David J. Stewart Is the Jehovah's Witnesses cult based upon the occult of Freemasonry? Was Charles Taze Russell a 33rd Degree Freemason as was Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon cult? Carefully notice the Masonic cross at the upper left corner of the photo below... The Masonic cross used by the Masonic Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell and the Watch Tower Bible and Track Society in the Greatest Masonic Center Cemetery. The picture below is the same scene as above, but without the zoom. Notice the illuminati pyramid. This is next to where Charles Taze Russell is buried. Below: Notice the Masonic cross in this Freemasonry meeting hall. William Miller Nelson Barbour Charles Taze Russell Charles Taze Russell Origins Doctrinal changes The false prophecy of 1914 : 607 or 587? Debate : evolution or creation Subliminal images Human rights violations Pedophilia News Miscellaneous Watchtower and U.N. : 10 years relationship! Refusal of blood transfusions Forum Close-up of pyramid with cross and crown emblem, and "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" carved in stone. "Risen with Christ" carved in stone on another side of the pyramid. Cross and crown emblem is on all four sides. Below : the pyramid with Russell's headstone in background. www.watchthetower.net... Below is a close-up of the inscription on the pyramid above. Is there a link to Freemasonry? Above is the headstone above Russell's grave. Note that he was viewed as the seventh, or "Laodician Messenger" to the Churches (Revelation 3:14) Below : Watchtower's pyramid memorial, with cross and crown emblem and capstone. Note Russell's headstone in background. THE GREAT PYRAMID OF GIZEH - JEHOVAH'S STONE WITNESS - www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk... In 1864 Charles Piazzi Smyth a scientist and explorer spent four months with his wife measuring and recording the pyramids on Egypt’s Giza plateau. The result was the most accurate survey of the Great pyramid up until that date. Smyth was the first person to link the pyramid to Pleiades and conclude that the structure had some prophetic meaning by linking it to the Old and New Testaments. Smyth published these ideas in the book “Our Inheritance”. Shortly after the Smyth’s book was published a gentlemen by the name of Robert Menzies took Smyth’s idea even further by suggesting that the measurements of the internal passages of the great pyramid replicated the chronology of divine history, using an inch for a year rule. Word was now out on the street that the builders of the great pyramid had predicted the second coming of Christ and that what the bible said in words the pyramid said in stone. In June 1876 Smyth published an article in the “Bible Examiner”, which was run by George Storrs, an Adventist, in Brooklyn New York A few years later George Storr ran a series of articles written by himself on the great pyramid and its prophetic importance in the “herald of Life” and “Coming Kingdom”. Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Watchtower, was greatly influenced by George Storrs writings and gained a lot of bible understanding from his teachings. Russell picks up the theories on the great pyramid and makes the first positive connection between the Bible and the pyramid. The connection he made was with the use of the following verses from Isaiah 19:19-20 "19 In that day there will prove to be an altar to Jehovah in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to Jehovah beside its boundary. 20 And it must prove to be for a sign and for a witness to Jehovah of armies in the land of Egypt;" Russell argued that although the passage in Isaiah never uses the word pyramid it can only refer only to Khufu’s monument in Giza. Russell wrote the following. “The Pyramid is by no means an addition to the written revelation: that revelation is complete and perfect, and needs no addition. But it is strong corroborative witness to god’s plan; and few students can carefully examine it, marking the harmony of its testimony with that of the written Word, without feeling impressed that its construction was planned and directed by the same divine wisdom, and that it is the pillar of witness referred to by the prophet in the above quotation [in Isaiah] Russell tied in the measurements of the internal passage ways of the great pyramid firstly with the predicted date of 1874 for the second coming of Christ and then his revised date of 1914. Somehow the pyramid grew 40 years in the period between. Russell also adopted the importance of Pleiades from Smyth’s original connection back in 1864. In 1928 the Watchtower abandoned pyramidology and declared, even though they been preaching that it had been built by Jehovah the year previously, that the Great Pyramid was really inspired by Satan and it was in fact Satan’s bible and no Jehovah’s Thy Kingdom Come (© 1891) (1904 edition — Millennial Dawn, vol 3) p.342 "So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1874 years AD. equals 3416 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the Bible testimony on this subject..." Thy Kingdom Come (copyright 1891) (1910 edition -- Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3) p.342 "So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject..." Thy Kingdom Come (SIS vIII) 1891 (1903 edition), p.313 : "The Testimony of God's Stone Witness and Prophet, the Great Pyramid in Egypt" "...the Great Pyramid... seems in a remarkable manner to teach, in harmony with all the prophets, an outline of the plan of God, past, present, and future..." The Divine Plan of the Ages [Studies in the Scriptures vol I] 1886 (1908 edition) p.86 "Jesus, the perfect one, has been highly exalted, and now we present ourselves to him that we may be formed and shaped according to his example, and that we may be built up as a building of God. In an ordinary building there is no chief corner-stone; but in our building there is one chief corner-stone, the "top-stone,"..." The Divine Plan of the Ages [Studies in the Scriptures vol I] 1886 (1908 edition), FOLD OUT CHART Russell measuring the pyramids. PYRAMIDOLOGY Below: Notice the Freemasonry cross, the Knights Templar symbol. Was C.T. Russell a Knights Templar? More pictures of Charles Taze Russell founder of the Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses) during his trip in Egypt, visiting the great pyramid. It appears that Russell visited the great pyramid twice, it is after his second trip that his teachings started and that the winged sun disk symbol was used for the International Bible Students. Not only that disk is used by the rosicrucians but also by the kabbalists who depicts Jehovah with that disk. The relationship of Russell with occultism don't stop there, the name of the organization and their main publication is what the occultists call the magic universe, the «watchtowers».

www.watchtowerlies.com...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

it was the thief's that i was referring to on the cross not the rebel rabbi

I don't think anybody gets that joke , the thief's represent the knowledge stolen !

i know a good one about Darwin and a woolly mammoth under his carpet people don't get either

a reply to: yuppa

Or Paul was a fraud who fabricated the whole thing and piggy backed on Judaism to lend it credibility..

It’s funny “god “ felt the need to make it a requirement you pay your taxes...

How convenient for those collecting them...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

How very inquisition of you lol....

If they don’t agree with your personal interpretation then they are definitely the devil , right??


No matter how many they “had” to burn, it was all for jesus, right???

Right??? Guys???

:p

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: yuppa

Or Paul was a fraud who fabricated the whole thing and piggy backed on Judaism to lend it credibility..

It’s funny “god “ felt the need to make it a requirement you pay your taxes...

How convenient for those collecting them...

God did not make tiething a requirement. he said if you can give...give. but we do have to follow local laws. any proof paul did this? i mean real proof. ever think the jews lied like they did to convict jesus?
even if he said so the 3 things jesus said to do are all we need to do.