the accomplishments of creation " science "

originally posted by: Phantom423

He thinks everyone is crazy except him and the Creationist crowd.

No I look at empirical data and question the current dogma based on what I see.

I offered to have the sample analyzed in one of our labs, but for some strange reason, he turned me down!

We would want it analyzed by a third party so there would be no bias. You would not share the results when they show that dinosaurs are less than 40,000 years old.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Phantom423

Not really our problem. I (as you do) have access to labs. I'd make sure all data is released

All carbon dating results for dinosaur bones give a result of less than 40,000 years old. If you can find one carbon dating result for dinosaurs that detected no levels of C-14 then you may have an argument. But as of now, all C-14 data shows they are younger than 40,000 years old. The burden of proof is now on you to falsify - simply calling the young C-14 dinosaur dates fraudulent because it doesn't match with your belief is not how science works.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423

He thinks everyone is crazy except him and the Creationist crowd.

No I look at empirical data and question the current dogma based on what I see.

I offered to have the sample analyzed in one of our labs, but for some strange reason, he turned me down!

We would want it analyzed by a third party so there would be no bias. You would not share the results when they show that dinosaurs are less than 40,000 years old.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Phantom423

Not really our problem. I (as you do) have access to labs. I'd make sure all data is released

All carbon dating results for dinosaur bones give a result of less than 40,000 years old. If you can find one carbon dating result for dinosaurs that detected no levels of C-14 then you may have an argument. But as of now, all C-14 data shows they are younger than 40,000 years old. The burden of proof is now on you to falsify - simply calling the young C-14 dinosaur dates fraudulent because it doesn't match with your belief is not how science works.

That's the same crap you said last time around.

All carbon dating results for dinosaur bones give a result of less than 40,000 years old.

If Miller and your crowd was so intent on proving that C14 was in that sample or any other sample, all they had to do was repeat the experiment in a different lab. There's no shortage of dinosaur bones.

But the sample disappeared, Miller disappeared, the guy in California settled his case but never repeated his experiment.

This demonstrates that the entire operation was an intentional fraud.

If you have a sample (which mysteriously disappeared last time), why don't you send it to several labs of your own choice? We know the answer to that, of course.

Ahh ALL results give less then 40K years? Try that again. Show me some irrefutable evidence of this. You know, some fossils dated, that have a chain of possession.

originally posted by: Phantom423

If Miller and your crowd was so intent on proving that C14 was in that sample or any other sample, all they had to do was repeat the experiment in a different lab. There's no shortage of dinosaur bones.

But the sample disappeared, Miller disappeared, the guy in California settled his case but never repeated his experiment.

Miller was one of the many scientists who found these results. Here is a German scientist presenting some C-14 dinosaur data:



You are the one paranoid if you think all of these scientists and the results from Georgia and Arizona's AMS lab are fraudulent. Be a real scientist and falsify it. Don't just wish it away with your biases.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423

If Miller and your crowd was so intent on proving that C14 was in that sample or any other sample, all they had to do was repeat the experiment in a different lab. There's no shortage of dinosaur bones.

But the sample disappeared, Miller disappeared, the guy in California settled his case but never repeated his experiment.

Miller was one of the many scientists who found these results. Here is a German scientist presenting some C-14 dinosaur data:

You are the one paranoid if you think all of these scientists and the results from Georgia and Arizona's AMS lab are fraudulent. Be a real scientist and falsify it. Don't just wish it away with your biases.

Falsify it? You must be smoking some strong stuff. Without a sample, nothing can be done. If these results were valid, there would be dozens of papers verifying the results.

Get over it already - you have nothing.

originally posted by: Phantom423

Falsify it? You must be smoking some strong stuff. Without a sample, nothing can be done. If these results were valid, there would be dozens of papers verifying the results.

Get over it already - you have nothing.

There are countless dinosaur bones on exhibit and in the field. Any of them would work to negate or support the existing data. Yet so far ALL data supports a young date for dinosaurs

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423

Falsify it? You must be smoking some strong stuff. Without a sample, nothing can be done. If these results were valid, there would be dozens of papers verifying the results.

Get over it already - you have nothing.

There are countless dinosaur bones on exhibit and in the field. Any of them would work to negate or support the existing data. Yet so far ALL data supports a young date for dinosaurs

If there's so many samples available, why doesn't anyone repeat the experiment? And what data? There is none except for Miller and Anderson. Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples. That's science.

originally posted by: Phantom423
Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples.

It's blurry but at the 6:10 mark in the presentation I posted there is a list of 21 dinosaur samples that were tested for C-14 content, all of which were under 40,000 years old.

This is like in WWII when the nazis knew they had no hope to perpetuate their totalitarian ideology, but still went on pretending like they had the power until the bitter end. Don't cling to a sinking ship.

a reply to: cooperton

I looked at the video and it's too blurry to be useful for any of your claims. Too bad there isn't a link to the presentation itself.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

I looked at the video and it's too blurry to be useful for any of your claims. Too bad there isn't a link to the presentation itself.

That same chart is also at this link, it is the first chart on the page.

a reply to: cooperton

a very useful link! Thank you. It disappoints me that the board responsible for that convention neglected to investigate those findings. It also disappoints me that the research team didn't contact secondary facilities to try and produce identical readings for the sake of posterity. It might have been useful to bring well known faces into the presentation to reinforce the credibility of such shocking data. Who doesn't want their name on that kind of breakthrough?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
Who doesn't want their name on that kind of breakthrough?

Anyone who is too afraid to lose their job. If this data is true, then all those employed in research regarding evolution are out of a job and, even worse, proven wrong

It is going to take a lot to overcome the old biases. People have dedicated their entire lives to this theory, they won't let it go easily. You would think that the consistent discovery of soft tissue in dinosaur bones would be enough indication though...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
Who doesn't want their name on that kind of breakthrough?

Anyone who is too afraid to lose their job. If this data is true, then all those employed in research regarding evolution are out of a job and, even worse, proven wrong

It is going to take a lot to overcome the old biases. People have dedicated their entire lives to this theory, they won't let it go easily. You would think that the consistent discovery of soft tissue in dinosaur bones would be enough indication though...

You have a funny idea of how breakthroughs in research are handled. They wouldn't lose their jobs, they would be updated and taught a better way to do it. In this case, if one little team could turn carbon dating on its head, they wouldn't have been the first or the last. This is the only example you have shared of anyone questioning the official carbon dating record, in an age where it's all too easy to leak any number of journals documenting revolutionary carbon dating test results. These specific fossils were reportedly classified as Mesozoic in origin, who did the testing to determine that result?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples.

It's blurry but at the 6:10 mark in the presentation I posted there is a list of 21 dinosaur samples that were tested for C-14 content, all of which were under 40,000 years old.

This is like in WWII when the nazis knew they had no hope to perpetuate their totalitarian ideology, but still went on pretending like they had the power until the bitter end. Don't cling to a sinking ship.

Not sure what presentation you're talking about. Please post it again. Also, please give the name of the lab(s) that did the analysis. Thanks

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples.

It's blurry but at the 6:10 mark in the presentation I posted there is a list of 21 dinosaur samples that were tested for C-14 content, all of which were under 40,000 years old.

This is like in WWII when the nazis knew they had no hope to perpetuate their totalitarian ideology, but still went on pretending like they had the power until the bitter end. Don't cling to a sinking ship.

I think you're referring to the Seiler conference link. I looked at that. Couldn't find any published data or information about where his lab is. He apparently is a Catholic anti-evolutionist. That's all I could find out about him. The video shows a few data slides, but no links to the actual data.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples.

It's blurry but at the 6:10 mark in the presentation I posted there is a list of 21 dinosaur samples that were tested for C-14 content, all of which were under 40,000 years old.

And which one of those is a peer reviewed research paper? Oh wait, none of them are.

This is like in WWII when the nazis knew they had no hope to perpetuate their totalitarian ideology, but still went on pretending like they had the power until the bitter end. Don't cling to a sinking ship.

No, it's like people lying and making stuff up to support an ideology. It's funny that you mention Nazi Germany, because Hitler himself was a creationist. Sorry but you have to have results and repeated tests in science.

The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc.

-Hitler; Mein Kampf

Now where have I heard that argument before? Pretty much every creationist video ever made. Hovind, Ham, they all say that. They got that ideology straight from Hitler. It's funny because creationists have been paraphrasing that statement for the last 20-30 years, and probably don't even realize it comes from one of the most racist genocidal dictators in history. You see Hitler believed in micro evolution but not macro evolution and banned/burned Darwin's books. He was very much a creationist. He even said that any deviations from that were a "sin against the eternal creator".

originally posted by: Barcs

The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc.-Hitler; Mein Kampf

Yet there has never been empirical repeatable evidence that a fox can become something other than a fox, a goose something other than a goose, a tiger something other than a tiger. Just because Hitler said it doesn't make it evil.

originally posted by: Phantom423
please give the name of the lab(s) that did the analysis. Thanks

I have given you the links to the Arizona and Georgia AMS lab results regarding dinosaur bones. The scientific community's response is the same as yours - ignore it. Don't make this a battle of theists vs atheists, who vs cares, etc.

This is a general approach towards truth. You can listen to the unwarranted defamation against these brave scientists who are raising up against the dogma, but just consider that the mainstream theoretical framework may be wrong.

Best of luck in all your future endeavors, I will be taking a break from ATS.

originally posted by: cooperton
Yet there has never been empirical repeatable evidence that a fox can become something other than a fox, a goose something other than a goose, a tiger something other than a tiger. Just because Hitler said it doesn't make it evil.

Yes it does, because Hitler was using it to support his ideology that Aryans were the supreme race, hand designed and chosen by god. That led to the genocide of millions of people. Sorry I just stumbled upon that passage the other day, and couldn't believe it because creationists argue constantly that Hitler's ideology was based on Darwin when it's the exact opposite. Too funny. Once I get more research together I'm going to make a thread about it that shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hitler was an evolution denier and creationist.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Barcs

The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc.-Hitler; Mein Kampf

Yet there has never been empirical repeatable evidence that a fox can become something other than a fox, a goose something other than a goose, a tiger something other than a tiger. Just because Hitler said it doesn't make it evil.

originally posted by: Phantom423
please give the name of the lab(s) that did the analysis. Thanks

I have given you the links to the Arizona and Georgia AMS lab results regarding dinosaur bones. The scientific community's response is the same as yours - ignore it. Don't make this a battle of theists vs atheists, who vs cares, etc.

This is a general approach towards truth. You can listen to the unwarranted defamation against these brave scientists who are raising up against the dogma, but just consider that the mainstream theoretical framework may be wrong.

Best of luck in all your future endeavors, I will be taking a break from ATS.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You didn't give me the data. You gave me the results. Very different. The data is an account of how the experiment was performed with the supporting data from the instrumentation. If the data was so extraordinary and refuted everything we know about the age of the dinosaurs, someone would have repeated the experiment with other samples. They didn't because the reports were questionable, the samples disappeared and neither Miller nor Anderson made themselves available to discuss their findings. All their results were only reported in anti-evolutionist journals and websites.

Once again, if you have a sample, I'd be happy to send it to several independent labs to have it analyzed. The fact that everything mysteriously disappeared after these reports would make anyone suspicious. I don't know why you don't understand that. These are not difficult analyses. They are standard spectroscopic procedures which can be compared to the originals.

The ball was always in your court. You had the opportunity to have the samples analyzed. This is SOP (standard operating procedure) for any experiment which yields contradictory results.

If you ever change your mind, let me know. Noinden also offered his laboratory facilities.

Have a good vacation.

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
Come back when you have the results of a dozen samples.

It's blurry but at the 6:10 mark in the presentation I posted there is a list of 21 dinosaur samples that were tested for C-14 content, all of which were under 40,000 years old.

This is like in WWII when the nazis knew they had no hope to perpetuate their totalitarian ideology, but still went on pretending like they had the power until the bitter end. Don't cling to a sinking ship.

I think you're referring to the Seiler conference link. I looked at that. Couldn't find any published data or information about where his lab is. He apparently is a Catholic anti-evolutionist. That's all I could find out about him. The video shows a few data slides, but no links to the actual data.

cooperton posted a link to me, but it only shows the results from one particular lab that your research suggests has gone underground or disassembled entirely. no one has reproduced their test results since that conference.