police shot my friend in a peaceful town

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SatansPride

Sorry for your loss.
Running from cops in Britain is standard practice if you don't want to get nicked. Being shot is the last thing on your mind while doing a runner.
The comments I've read in this thread make me think north Korea. So so glad I don't live in Murica.

Our police don't have guns, so yeah it's pretty fair to say the last thing on your mind when running from a policeman is getting shot.
The UK is not like the US and never has been. Common sense would tell you NOT to run from a cop in the USA and if you run expecting not to be shot then that is on you, especially if you already have a criminal record.

Agreed, but isn't that the real tragedy how it is accepted as normal in the US that running from cops deserves the death penalty with a bullet in the back?
Doing a runner is standard UK practice, it's why our cops are generally not fat donut eating bastards. They need to keep fit for the chase.

I tend not to apply the norms in the UK to the US because I know how different the two countries are. It's a bit like applying Uk logic to the US regarding gun control. I don't believe in a one worldview. There are very few instances where I would say a single set of morals or principals apply. So i, don't really see this as something terribly wrong when it happens in the US. I would apportion most of the blame on the runner.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SatansPride

Sorry for your loss.
Running from cops in Britain is standard practice if you don't want to get nicked. Being shot is the last thing on your mind while doing a runner.
The comments I've read in this thread make me think north Korea. So so glad I don't live in Murica.

Our police don't have guns, so yeah it's pretty fair to say the last thing on your mind when running from a policeman is getting shot.
The UK is not like the US and never has been. Common sense would tell you NOT to run from a cop in the USA and if you run expecting not to be shot then that is on you, especially if you already have a criminal record.

Agreed, but isn't that the real tragedy how it is accepted as normal in the US that running from cops deserves the death penalty with a bullet in the back?
Doing a runner is standard UK practice, it's why our cops are generally not fat donut eating bastards. They need to keep fit for the chase.

I tend not to apply the norms in the UK to the US because I know how different the two countries are. It's a bit like applying Uk logic to the US regarding gun control. I don't believe in a one worldview. There are very few instances where I would say a single set of morals or principals apply. So i, don't really see this as something terribly wrong when it happens in the US. I would apportion most of the blame on the runner.

Maybe it's a cultural norm in the US to shoot someone in the back for merely running from cops. No suggestion in this case that anyone else was at risk of harm because he ran either.
Personally though I am glad it is not socially acceptable in the UK.
You seem like you wish it was though

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SatansPride

Sorry for your loss.
Running from cops in Britain is standard practice if you don't want to get nicked. Being shot is the last thing on your mind while doing a runner.
The comments I've read in this thread make me think north Korea. So so glad I don't live in Murica.

Our police don't have guns, so yeah it's pretty fair to say the last thing on your mind when running from a policeman is getting shot.
The UK is not like the US and never has been. Common sense would tell you NOT to run from a cop in the USA and if you run expecting not to be shot then that is on you, especially if you already have a criminal record.

Agreed, but isn't that the real tragedy how it is accepted as normal in the US that running from cops deserves the death penalty with a bullet in the back?
Doing a runner is standard UK practice, it's why our cops are generally not fat donut eating bastards. They need to keep fit for the chase.

I tend not to apply the norms in the UK to the US because I know how different the two countries are. It's a bit like applying Uk logic to the US regarding gun control. I don't believe in a one worldview. There are very few instances where I would say a single set of morals or principals apply. So i, don't really see this as something terribly wrong when it happens in the US. I would apportion most of the blame on the runner.

Maybe it's a cultural norm in the US to shoot someone in the back for merely running from cops. No suggestion in this case that anyone else was at risk of harm because he ran either.
Personally though I am glad it is not socially acceptable in the UK.
You seem like you wish it was though

It's not really about wishes. I just understand that the two countries are different.
As for harm, well yes, the non-capture of this person would put others at risk of his criminal behaviour.
It's not a case of US Cops being allowed to shoot people in the back with impunity - there is a Supreme Court ruling (I think Tennessee vs.."someone") that requires there to be a threat to the officer or others.
I would like certain criminals that are a serious threat to be shot dead if they tried to run, but like I said that's not a good idea overall for the UK as culturally it would just not be understood.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SatansPride

Sorry for your loss.
Running from cops in Britain is standard practice if you don't want to get nicked. Being shot is the last thing on your mind while doing a runner.
The comments I've read in this thread make me think north Korea. So so glad I don't live in Murica.

Our police don't have guns, so yeah it's pretty fair to say the last thing on your mind when running from a policeman is getting shot.
The UK is not like the US and never has been. Common sense would tell you NOT to run from a cop in the USA and if you run expecting not to be shot then that is on you, especially if you already have a criminal record.

Agreed, but isn't that the real tragedy how it is accepted as normal in the US that running from cops deserves the death penalty with a bullet in the back?
Doing a runner is standard UK practice, it's why our cops are generally not fat donut eating bastards. They need to keep fit for the chase.

I tend not to apply the norms in the UK to the US because I know how different the two countries are. It's a bit like applying Uk logic to the US regarding gun control. I don't believe in a one worldview. There are very few instances where I would say a single set of morals or principals apply. So i, don't really see this as something terribly wrong when it happens in the US. I would apportion most of the blame on the runner.

Maybe it's a cultural norm in the US to shoot someone in the back for merely running from cops. No suggestion in this case that anyone else was at risk of harm because he ran either.
Personally though I am glad it is not socially acceptable in the UK.
You seem like you wish it was though

It's not really about wishes. I just understand that the two countries are different.
As for harm, well yes, the non-capture of this person would put others at risk of his criminal behaviour.
It's not a case of US Cops being allowed to shoot people in the back with impunity - there is a Supreme Court ruling (I think Tennessee vs.."someone") that requires there to be a threat to the officer or others.
I would like certain criminals that are a serious threat to be shot dead if they tried to run, but like I said that's not a good idea overall for the UK as culturally it would just not be understood.

Ah I get ya.
Rapists and paedophiles I wouldn't shed a tear being shot in the back while running away, but a low level heroin dealer not so much.
I like that our cops only have sticks in the main, and we can call them pricks when they are being pricks without fear of death just a good roughing up at worst.
I totally understand that the US does it's own thing and rightly so but please forgive me I've seen posts from you where you seem desperate to suck up to the US for deals post Brexit, but if the price for those deals is US culture and a lifting of the ban on their poisoned food then I would vote differently.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well, we need the US right now. I don't think we'll have to adopt their gun laws to secure a trade deal!
I quite agree that we should not jump out of the EU frying pan into a US oven, but we should be able to secure a deal without giving up anywhere near as much as membership of the EU demanded. Whilst we are very different from the US in so many ways, I still feel that as a people we have more in common, ideologically, with them than our neighbours in Europe.

a reply to: UKTruth

I agree, but I don't want their authoritarian submissive existence or their poisoned GM food ever. The US is not the land of the free in anyway compared to my version of free in Cornwall.
Shot by cops?! You really have to try hard to get shot by cops here and even then you'll get multiple warnings before they do.
# that # in the US, I definitely prefer how cops roll here and there's no trade deal in the world would change my stance on that.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Your version of "free in Cornwall" includes people not knowing what would happen to them in the eyes of the law if they were to use their licensed firearms to protect themselves against a terrorist attack.

A Devon and Cornwall "Police and Crime Commissioner," Alison Hernandez, didn't know how to answer that question last year when asked by a caller on a radio show.

The presenter again said he could not believe the chief constable would entertain the idea of the public defending themselves with firearms.

Hernandez replied: “I’m sure he wouldn’t want to entertain it but these are times that are challenging and I would like to have an official response on that myself.”

Within hours of the interview Devon and Cornwall police had issued a strong warning that citizens should not arm themselves if there was a terrorist attack.

The Guardian

So, this may be the "free" under which you want to live, but I prefer to appreciate living in a country where it's not only perfectly acceptable to defend one's self with a firearm from a potentially deadly attack, but acceptable in the eyes of both the police and the judicial system.

Our police are armed because they interact with a public who has a right to be armed as well--the amount of force must be balanced by the police, if not exceeded. If not, you get what you describe, where people routinely run from police with little fear of repercussion. I'm glad that you enjoy living in those circumstances, but that blatant lack of authority is laughable to most people in America (and, no, the vast majority of America doesn't fear our police, we just respect them).

Like UKTruth has noted, you don't have to like American culture and the reality that our police (and civilians, often enough) carry firearms, but you certainly should at least put a bit of critical thought behind why that situation might exist before simply pretending to see across the pond from a moral high ground.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I wasn't speaking from any moral high ground though.
You may like a situation where you can't call out a cop who is being a prick for fear of being shot, or risk being shot in the back while running away, but it isn't a situation I would like.

So yeh in that sense I feel way more free than you guys every time I read threads about police brutality and killings.
...can even cross the street wherever I feel it's safe...no nanny police state making that decision for me.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I wasn't speaking from any moral high ground though.
You may like a situation where you can't call out a cop who is being a prick for fear of being shot, or risk being shot in the back while running away, but it isn't a situation I would like.

So yeh in that sense I feel way more free than you guys every time I read threads about police brutality and killings.
...can even cross the street wherever I feel it's safe...no nanny police state making that decision for me.

An ironic comment coming from somebody that lives in what was just found to be the second most nanny-state country in Europe.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Lol I chose it carefully for the irony.
Being arrested is the least scary thing in Britain and you really have to be bad to go to prison.
Does the land of the free still have the highest incarceration rate in the world or are you second place to North Korea or something?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

What's that have to do with the nanny state? Particularly when one acknowledges the incarceration rate is driven primarily by the "war on drugs" and that most of the drugs illegal here are illegal in the UK. Weed is responsible for what...two-thirds of drug crimes in the UK? You folks put people in prison for weed, just like we do.

You folks literally coined the term, and like your nanny state.

a reply to: Shamrock6
Lol again, nobody goes to prison here for personal possession, and you can grow up to 9 plants fully in the knowledge that it will be a crap fine paid off in affordable instalments.
We're allowed to have casinos and bet on sports etc.
We can feed homeless people without fear of arrest.
I could go on, but yep your 'nanny' is an enforcer, the evil twin nanny of Britain's

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SlapMonkey

You may like a situation where you can't call out a cop who is being a prick for fear of being shot, or risk being shot in the back while running away, but it isn't a situation I would like.

Well, I HAVE called out police for acting like dicks before, and nothing negative came of it--I still left with warnings concerning what I was doing instead of citations.

I'm not a little b***h, so I don't run from police, I accept consequences of what I do--personal integrity and all.

So yeh in that sense I feel way more free than you guys every time I read threads about police brutality and killings.

Okie dokie, because it's all about feelings based on sensationalized stories that most people interpret incorrectly because they're ignorant to the law...

As far as your comments to Shamrock6 about incarceration rates and drug laws, we just need to stop telling adults what they can and cannot put into their own bodies. I agree that we have many, many laws in the US that have no victims and should be abolished, but that's a different argument for another day.

But, again, as long as you feel free, that's what matters.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Lol again, nobody goes to prison here for personal possession, and you can grow up to 9 plants fully in the knowledge that it will be a crap fine paid off in affordable instalments.

Still illegal, isn't it?

We're allowed to have casinos and bet on sports etc.

So can we.

We can feed homeless people without fear of arrest.

So can we. Hell, even cops get in on that

I could go on, but yep your 'nanny' is an enforcer, the evil twin nanny of Britain's

You could, but it's rather pointless since whatever you come up with is likely either something you gleaned from the news (which is rarely a snapshot of reality) or has something equally absurd in the UK.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Nope I find most of it posted by US members on ATS and reading sources from the threads.
I'll dip out of this though as going round in circles is pointless. I already said earlier I'm happy for the US to do whatever it likes, just I wouldn't want to live there for the reasons I've stated.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
You are as entitled to your opinion as I am, I just consider it reasonable to assume that a nation roughly 5 times the population of mine should have 5 times the vids of police brutality on YouTube.
Strange how the ratio of police brutality UK/US is massively different. But no, move along, nothing to see here lol

...we do have new fangled video recording mobile telephones here as well

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

Strange how the ratio of police brutality UK/US is massively different.

The reason behind that has already been discussed many times on ATS, and also I noted it in this thread in a response to you. If you fail to understand it, that's not on me.

But by all means, revel in your opinion. I'll try to correct things that you get wrong, but if you don't want to accept it, that's fine.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
Oh apologies I must have missed it. Seeing as ATS doesn't have a notification system and there are a few pages to go back through, may I ask you to bring me up to speed why the overwhelming majority of police brutality on YouTube is in the US compared to the UK or indeed most of Europe?
Thanks in advance

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

It was more in response to your complaints about our police carrying firearms versus yours carrying "sticks."

But to be fair, it's a trend that's been happening over the course of the past five years or so, where it's awesome in the eyes of some people to be the first and loudest to "report" on police shootings and what they perceive to be brutality, so it's plastered all over the place.

As far as statistics are concerned, though, unjustified police shootings and use of force committed in the US is less than one percent of one percent of the interactions that US citizens have with our police forces. But it's a highly emotional issue, so it gets blown out of proportion.

Like I also noted in this thread, though--not enough people willing to opine on the issue fully comprehend the laws and SOPs of police forces in the US, and they often misinterpret many justifiable uses of lethal force or just force in general as being "murder" or "police brutality."

In short, though, the fact that our police have firearms and yours (for the most part) do not is why you see more of our police videos versus yours. Relatively speaking, your police brutality videos are boring--and like you noted, lots of people run away from the police, so there isn't even an encounter to record

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Lmao I agree our UK police "brutality" vids are boring, but minus the guns your police brutality vids are shocking.
The ratio of beatings UK/US on youtube should reflect the a similar ratio of the populations with no other factors involved.
You and I both know the reason real UK brutality vids are hard to find is not because we can and do run away to escape.