All Things Hip Hop/Rap Discussion Thread

Hi, so glad you stopped in and I hope you can stay to read, comment on, or add to our own ATS hip hop discussion. I've noticed we have quite a few hip hop heads on the boards here with lots of knowledge to share on one of my favorite topics, so I'm sure we can generate some great discussions on here. Let's try!
Rap/hip hop now has 40 years of history, and some really interesting characters have graced the stage, as well as some amazing success stories, some unexpected friendships and rivals, and a lot of controversy. That said, I hope to handle these topics with respect to the truth, and also to the rappers who can no longer speak for themselves.
And, above all, let's HAVE FUN!
Feel free to add anything you'd like to existing topics, or to talk about your own topics here.

To start, I have two somewhat controversial (but interesting) topics to put out there. The first I want to talk about not because I believe it (in fact, pretty sure I found a picture to refute the premise) but because there is something really intriguing about it.

Let me say that I am almost always objective/impassive when it comes to the rap artists- I am in no way trying to throw shade anywhere and really love both Tupac and Biggie's work. (Now Puff Daddy and Shug Night- different stories. Hate those two scums with a passion.)

Now for the question:

Did Biggie end up with Tupac's stolen jewlery?


Huh. Of course not, right?
BUT why did Biggie sport jewlery that looked almost identical to Pac's (this is right in the middle of their beef, too), and what's with the cryptic references to jewlery in both Tupac's "Life of an Outlaw" and Biggie's "Beef"?
First off, let's talk about Pac's gold cross. There are plenty of pictures of him wearing it, and I'm pretty sure you'd recognize it on him.
Here's a few pictures of Tupac wearing the chain.



Here's a close up of two rings Pac almost always wore (I found record that ONE ring was stolen from Pac on the night he was held up at Quad Studio, not two, fyi):


Now let's check out Biggie, flaunting an almost identical cross and rings at the VMAs (Sept 1995) and later again at the Billboard Music Awards in December of the same year.




(scratches head) Why would Biggie wear jewlery so similar to Pac's? Coincidence? (Well it DEFINITELY could be) Or is he sending a message to Pac?

Check out these lyrics to Biggie's brutal song "Beef"

This instant, rappers too persistent
Quick to spit Biggie name on #, make my name taste
Like ass when you speak it, see me in the street
Your jewelry? You can keep it, that be our little secret

Pac also made a cryptic reference to jewlery in "Life of an Outlaw"

Look at me laugh at my competition's flashin' my jewelry

The timeline would also add up-- Tupac was robbed on November 30, 1994, and was quick to come out implicating Biggie and Stretch (murdered on the year anniversary of Pac's robbery in a seemingly completely unrelated incident) and Biggie never wore a cross or rings similar to Pac's until after the robbery.

Here's the refutation- all in one simple picture- but I also have one more question afterwards so don't go away yet!
Pac shows up to court, sensationally as usual, in the days following his robbery wearing... his gold cross. lol.

So that cross Biggie was sporting was clearly NOT Pac's.
BUT... what if the ring was? Could Biggie have bought a duplicate chain and ring in addition to the real ring which was stolen just to send Pac a message?
I know it's far fetched but it would explain a lot about the beef, at least Pac's part in it.

I would be very interested in your take on that theory!

If you don't care to comment on that one, how about this for a fun topic:

Did Dre borrow/steal some of his dopest tracks?

Let me say that I love Dre. I grew up listening to him and Snoop, and can still remember when "Let Me Ride" hit the airwaves with that California G-Funk sound. I think he is talented regardless of his ethics. That said, I'd also like to give a little credit to where credit is due.

Let's start with the inventors of the G-Funk sound, Above The Law. Check out this song by Above the Law, which was (according to Wiki)

recorded in 1991 into 1992 but was held back due to legal issues eith Epic And Dr. Dre's Departure from Ruthless Records. It was released on February 2, 1993 via Ruthless Records. The album peaked at number 6 on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums and number 37 on the US Billboard 200. Rolling Stone gave the album 4.5 stars of 5.

now compare that with Dre's Nuthin' But a G Thang (1992)

Cold 187um is the rapper credited with creating the G Funk sound (named that by Tupac, believe it or not). Dre took it and made something great with it, nothing wrong there, but if he straight copped a song then that is shady.

This isn't the only time Dre has been accused of taking others' intellectual property. If you're interested in reading more, here's an article referencing Dre's hit "The Next Episode"
thecampusvibe.wordpress.com...
and another with Snoop defending Dre:
boxden.com...

What's your take on the controversy?

Thanks for reading and I'm really hoping this will be a fun, interesting, and informative thread. Feel free to post good music, comment, or intruduce your own hip hop questions or theories!

a reply to: zosimov

We need some East Coast in here, Chuck D and Flava specifically...

I prefer the message in their song over the 'beefs'.

They enlightened my mind...

a reply to: intrptr

I really do too.

Thank you for stressing that point. Above all, especially Pac (sometimes Biggie- Sky's the Limit, Juicy) these two talented rappers had a strong and positive message to send and admittedly their "beef" overshadowed all that.

I guess it's the Roman in us that is drawn to the colosseum.

BUT I do think this incident was absolutely a turning point (that in conjunction with his incarceration right on the heels of this robbery) in Tupacs life, which I guess the spirit in which I bring up the question.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Way to start the party off right!

a reply to: zosimov

I don't understand how anybody can listen to most of this music. The lyrics are so degrading to women. I couldn't look my teenage daughter in the eye if I listened to these guys.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Maybe check out Dear Momma by Tupac or You Never Know by Immortal Technique among many, many others who used their lyrics to elevate women before you cast your vote. Not all lyrics are the same (also rock music has some horribly degrading music to women as well, don't you agree?)



ETA: I see you did say "most" and well I can see your point, but can say it never bothered me as a woman and never interfered with my own esteem.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I don't understand how anybody can listen to most of this music. The lyrics are so degrading to women. I couldn't look my teenage daughter in the eye if I listened to these guys.

Guess you don't listen to Jazz, Blues or Rock as I can give you plenty of lyrics, some dating back to the 20's, which will make some of this stuff look tame.

Look up Lucille Bogan's Shave 'Em Dry for a start.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't think I want to look that one up lol.

a reply to: zosimov


Check them out, it really gives you an idea when people say 'it was different back then' how NOT different it was. People have been singing about sex and getting laid since people have been singing.

Yeah I understand there is older music that deals with women and sex.
But you gotta admit that it's a bit different than singing about bitch's and ho's.

That seems to be a staple of hip hop.

a reply to: Bluntone22


Read the lyrics I just suggested and tell me if that woman singing them has self esteem issues.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I would say that yes, she definitely has some self esteem issues.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I think you bring up excellent points about the industry, and actually one I'd like to discuss in detail later (the "secret meeting" that changed hip hop).
One thing I can say is that there are some very talented artists who used their voices for positive change, right there in the rap industry.
Plus.. it's only Locker Room talk... amirite!

Kidding. But it does seem people are very very quick to excuse certain "degrading" behaviors while condemning others. I too am guilty.

a reply to: Bluntone22


Why? She's comfortable with her sexuality and is able to make a ribald song dealing with sex so I would think people who have self esteem issues wouldn't be taking artistic chances like this.

a reply to: zosimov

Don't get me wrong, I think many rappers are very talented. And caty perry is no better.
I'm just old fashioned and think that a women is more than a sex toy.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Good for you, and keep raising your daughters with that wonderful perspective.
Your girls are lucky to have a dad like you.

a reply to: zosimov

Little things that helped me understand the 'sub' culture. Not always plain in the lyrics. Tupac takes time to explain one of these to a white journalist...
Another 'explanation' for white folk in here...

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: zosimov

I don't understand how anybody can listen to most of this music. The lyrics are so degrading to women. I couldn't look my teenage daughter in the eye if I listened to these guys.

Funny, your comment made me think back to being an adolescent listening to rap, and the impact it had on me being a female (whether I had issues with the message in the songs) and this song suddenly popped into my head as having resonated really strongly, lol. It's great, you should check it out. "Who you callin a b**ch?"

a reply to: intrptr

That Too $hort song is so good. I heard it again recently and the lyrics blew me away. Thanks for posting!