Our Debt Doesn't Exist

originally posted by: bulwarkz

That was answered 100 years ago in Ukraine.
It is known as the Hollodomor.

The money system failed Russia but it was the NKVD secret police who stole the crops and seed of Ukrainian farms leading to the deaths of tens of millions. If no one can protect their property rights your monetary system doesn't matter. The Holodomor was result of not supporting the Bolshevik government.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus


The cost of homes, like everything else, are mostly driven by simple supply and demand economics.

Like a lot of other things in our economy, is has more to do with being managed than supply and demand side economics.
What would happen if the poor and homeless were able to build cheap housing out of whatever they can find like they do in Mexico and other poor countries?

It would drive prices down because of less demand, and also because the shacks would degrade property values and it would also decrease property taxes.

So who benefits?
The land lord rentier class, the state and wealthier home owners.
If you believe in Free Markets, Supply and Demand, then lets get the government out of the picture and let people build as they please.

If a homeless person so much as sets up a tent, it gets bull dozed down by the police and they are told to move along.
We would already look like the third world if the poor were able to live within their means in regards to housing.

In San Francisco, there are homeless that work and live out of their cars.
The demand for housing is there, but the wealthy do not want to build high rises and wreck the "skyline"

originally posted by: jacobe001

What would happen if the poor and homeless were able to build cheap housing out of whatever they can find like they do in Mexico and other poor countries?

If they are to code who's stopping them?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

They should be, tariffs only impact the end user.

Then why were Corporations quite happy to lobby politicians all the time in our countries history?
The end user is not the major beneficiary today, shareholders are.

An Apple Iphone cost 200 dollars to make in China including labor and it is sold to end users for 800 dollars.
The Shareholders and Corporate Profits are the intended beneficiary.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001

What would happen if the poor and homeless were able to build cheap housing out of whatever they can find like they do in Mexico and other poor countries?

If they are to code who's stopping them?

That is Big Government and their regulations in the way.
What about Free Market Capitalism?
How come regulations against citizens is ok but regulations are bad against Big Business?

originally posted by: jacobe001
That is Big Government and their regulations in the way.

No, that's actually small, local government that sets most of the building codes. Have an issue with it? Take it up at your next Zoning/Planning Board meeting.

What about Free Market Capitalism?
How come regulations against citizens is ok but regulations are bad against Big Business?

Zoning/planning regulations apply to everyone equally whether it is a single family dwelling or a business.

originally posted by: jacobe001
Then why were Corporations quite happy to lobby politicians all the time in our countries history?

Because they were under pressure from other markets.

The end user is not the major beneficiary today, shareholders are.

An Apple Iphone cost 200 dollars to make in China including labor and it is sold to end users for 800 dollars.
The Shareholders and Corporate Profits are the intended beneficiary.

So? You aren't forced to buy an Apple product and there are more cost effective products available.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001
That is Big Government and their regulations in the way.

No, that's actually small, local government that sets most of the building codes. Have an issue with it? Take it up at your next Zoning/Planning Board meeting.

What about Free Market Capitalism?
How come regulations against citizens is ok but regulations are bad against Big Business?

Zoning/planning regulations apply to everyone equally whether it is a single family dwelling or a business.

Why would the Zoning / Planning Board side with Free Market Capitalism over there wealthy home and business owners that largely bankroll them?

originally posted by: jacobe001
Why would the Zoning / Planning Board side with Free Market Capitalism over there wealthy homeowners?

If you don't like their choices elect new ones or vote for Town Council/Mayoral candidates who support your views who can then appoint them.

a reply to: Realtruth

I am not sure how many people actually watched that G. Edward Griffin lecture, but it is excellent, and it still rings true today. Thank you for posting it. It made my Christmas morning suck less, if you can believe that lol!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001
Why would the Zoning / Planning Board side with Free Market Capitalism over there wealthy homeowners?

If you don't like their choices elect new ones or vote for Town Council/Mayoral candidates who support your views who can then appoint them.

Lol, Get Real!

You know as well as I do, that the ones put in office represent the wealthy and what they want.

originally posted by: jacobe001
Lol, Get Real!

You know as well as I do, that the ones put in office represent the wealthy and what they want.

Whatever you say. If you don't want to try to effect change locally I guess you can just bitch about things online since that's a such a wonderful way to alter policy. Good luck with that.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001
Lol, Get Real!

You know as well as I do, that the ones put in office represent the wealthy and what they want.

Whatever you say. If you don't want to try to effect change locally I guess you can just bitch about things online since that's a such a wonderful way to alter policy. Good luck with that.

Back to my original point, since you suggest going to the zoning board, also means you concede it is a managed economy rather than a free market economy via supply and demand.

originally posted by: jacobe001
Back to my original point, since you suggest going to the zoning board, also means you concede it is a managed economy rather than a free market economy via supply and demand.

It is absolutely supply and demand, there are just regulations on the type of product everyone can construct and/or sell. Home demand isn't generated by Planning or Zoning Board regulations, there are multiple market dynamics that create the demand. That isn't to say certain municipalities cannot have different products as compared their neighbors, land must be X size for a unit to be constructed.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001
Back to my original point, since you suggest going to the zoning board, also means you concede it is a managed economy rather than a free market economy via supply and demand.

It is absolutely supply and demand, there are just regulations on the type of product everyone can construct and/or sell. Home demand isn't generated by Planning or Zoning Board regulations, there are multiple market dynamics that create the demand. That isn't to say certain municipalities cannot have different products as compared their neighbors, land must be X size for a unit to be constructed.

But the supply and demand is rigged.
San Francisco is a excellent case for that.
They have the highest prices in the nation and demand is through the roof.
Demand is met so where is the suppliers?

If every poor person constructed a makeshift habitat out of spare boards it would also drop demand.
Via regulations, supply and demand can be controlled to benefit some people.

originally posted by: jacobe001
[
But the supply and demand is rigged.
San Francisco is a excellent case for that.
They have the highest prices in the nation and demand is through the roof.
Demand is met so where is the suppliers?

There are plenty of sellers, take your pick. You just seem to have an issue that the prices are high. That is a dynamic due to the amount of jobs and people moving to the area. San Francisco is a quintessential example of supply and demand economics, there is more demand than the current supply so prices go up, at some point supply will meet demand due to new housing starts. 2015 saw a 28% increase in starts over 2014 and 2016 saw San Francisco lead in housing starts.

The flip side is 2017 is projected to be a loss in residents for the Bay Area which could reflect in lower home prices in 2018. Supply and demand once again.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001

What would happen if the poor and homeless were able to build cheap housing out of whatever they can find like they do in Mexico and other poor countries?

If they are to code who's stopping them?

Once again you have an answer but miss the point.

I will give an example. What if there were really cheap ways to make housing and from there just simple infrastructure like water and sewage? And it was so cheap it can be used for both emergencies and for homeless solutions?
But you have to change all the codes
Simple right?
Nope absolutely impossible I say. I am a builder. Government makes codes for their employment. They NEED and FEED off high proprty values and high taxes.

Social needs be damned.

You could build entire communities from building processes like "super adobe" for both emergency and homelessness (permanent or temporary) quite easily with huge community support in building. But codes, regulations...

Dude I live in a city that outlaws feeding hungry people on the streets. Codes....

originally posted by: bulwarkz
Dude I live in a city that outlaws feeding hungry people on the streets. Codes....

I know you get really, really confused about things like numbers so it doesn't surprise me you conflate the above with a building code. It isn't.

You don't like your local municipality's codes? Work to change them. You and the other guy are either too lazy or you prefer to whine about it online instead. Either way your actions are useless.

fourwinds10.com...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: bulwarkz
Dude I live in a city that outlaws feeding hungry people on the streets. Codes....

I know you get really, really confused about things like numbers so it doesn't surprise me you conflate the above with a building code. It isn't.

You don't like your local municipality's codes? Work to change them. You and the other guy are either too lazy or you prefer to whine about it online instead. Either way your actions are useless.

heh, things are changing. I am just helping it along.
It is true, our debt is not real. We have to be tricked into accepting it. The debt belongs to the privately held corporations that conspired to use as graft and theft.

Probably the most important fact to realize is that we are not the corporate fiction they claim we are.
We are not corporate fictions called "persons" or "US citizens". Those are reserved for federal employees and inhabitants within the boundaries of D.C..
We are people. Flesh and blood people. We occupy the land. We are not under laws of the sea (U.C.C.). We as people simply have to come to realize who we are.

We are not powerless slugs waiting for them to tell us we are powerless slugs, like what happens in these threads.

It is odious debt trying to be placed like a millstone around our collective necks.
The corporate charter is up. Time for a fresh start and a new deal. A fair deal.

The more i hear augustus chears the more I hope N.E.S.A.R.A. is real and the replacement for this corruption that is considered normal.
I honestly cannot remember what N.E.S.A.R.A. STANDS FOR?? A little help? The farm claims were involved with that I believe.

Try typing in your own name in the Dun and Bradstreet link. Interesting stuff.

a reply to: bulwarkz


You back to that Strawman birth certificate thing again? Totally makes sense.

I see you haven't offered to send me all your fictitious money, why is that?