How do Bible believers reconcile the book of Ecclesiastes with being an optimistic person?

Ecclesiastes 1 New International Version (NIV)

1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
    says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
    Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
    at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
    but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
    and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
    and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
    ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
    yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
    there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
    more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
    nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
    “Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
    it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
    and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
    by those who follow them.
12 I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 
13 I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! 
14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted.
16 I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” 
17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.
18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.

I was once a Bible believer. I remember thinking that life on Earth was like what the book of Ecclesiastes described, but Jesus gave me the ability to rise above it.

Now that I no longer believe in Jesus, I believe spirituality gives me the ability to rise above it. I believe in floating above the harsh realities of life spiritually while still dealing with things as they are.

That's just my perspective. I would like to hear the opinions of others.

a reply to: antiantonym

Sounds like he took the red pill.

"Being a little more aware, having a little more awareness of the world and conditions is a certain kind of hell."-- Chris Rock (paraphrased)

Its okay to recognize this Game is folly, our purpose here is to become addicted to and then overcome our love of things, money and self.

BTW: I'm not a Churchian, just my interpretation of the passage.

a reply to: antiantonym

There is NOTHING optimistic in earthly terms about being Christian. Jews will have to answer this is in their way as the Bible is theirs, too, apart from the Christ bit which they are so NASTY about and disown even though He was their religion and blood. They still do the same today to any Jew who believes Christ. They disown them.

No, I am not at all optimistic. This world will BURN in the fire for sure. The Bible says that. Do you read Christ, Peter or Paul as being optimistic? They were all murdered by torture and I read them as being in a righteous despair and anger at the world, though with much love for their people.

Solomon was being REALISTIC. He actually was one of the first to teach me REALITY.

Yes, with wisdom comes great sorrow and folly, too.

I will have plenty to feel optimistic about in the eternity of Christ's Kingdom and the New Earth; if it is real as I only have Christ's Word to go on about that because even most of the Hebrews believed that there is no resurrection as they still believe today.

Love is DESPAIR!

It is a losing game.



Amy was Jewish so she fits here quite well. This is how I feel about this life. I saw her wearing a cross one time.

a reply to: intrptr

I thought the author of Ecclesiastes had taken the red pill long before that concept existed. The fact that Ecclesiastes is so unpopular among Christians proves to me that most of them don't want the red pill.

a reply to: Revolution9

I would like your opinion on the following video. I know it's long, but the first five minutes gives you the main idea. The main idea is that understanding Ecclesiastes is the key to being happy.


www.youtube.com...

a reply to: antiantonym

The Bible Project has a great bunch of YT vids on the Book's and subject's of the Bible . Boiling it down its about being more and more optimistic in the Hope we have in God and not on this place .

The bible doesn't teach optimism, it teaches reality
What makes you think it teaches optimism?

It's a long hard life, the promise is that it will all be restored in time, when Christ returns

Somebody lied to you

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I agree. The bible project explains it neatly.
They say that ecclesiastes is part of a set of three books known as the wisdom books. They hold three valid worldviews in apparent opposition to each other, and explain their merits and drawbacks. Ecclesiastes is the cynic, another is the optimist, and i forget the third. But they explain it well.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Here's a list of "70 Bible verses about optimism." The list was not compiled by me but by Christians.

Psalm 52:8
Verse Concepts
But as for me, I am like a green olive tree in the house of God; I trust in the lovingkindness of God forever and ever.

Psalm 125:1
Verse Concepts
Those who trust in the LORD Are as Mount Zion, which cannot be moved but abides forever.


Psalm 25:4-5
Make me know Your ways, O LORD; Teach me Your paths. Lead me in Your truth and teach me, For You are the God of my salvation; For You I wait all the day.

Psalm 56:4
Verse Concepts
In God, whose word I praise, In God I have put my trust; I shall not be afraid What can mere man do to me?

Psalm 71:5
Verse Concepts
For You are my hope; O Lord GOD, You are my confidence from my youth.

Psalm 91:2
Verse Concepts
I will say to the LORD, "My refuge and my fortress, My God, in whom I trust!"

Nahum 1:7
Verse Concepts
The LORD is good, A stronghold in the day of trouble, And He knows those who take refuge in Him.

2 Corinthians 1:10-11
who delivered us from so great a peril of death, and will deliver us, He on whom we have set our hope. And He will yet deliver us, you also joining in helping us through your prayers, so that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the favor bestowed on us through the prayers of many.

Psalm 27:1-3
The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the defense of my life; Whom shall I dread? When evildoers came upon me to devour my flesh, My adversaries and my enemies, they stumbled and fell. Though a host encamp against me, My heart will not fear; Though war arise against me, In spite of this I shall be confident.

Jeremiah 17:7
Verse Concepts
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD.

Micah 7:7
Verse Concepts
But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation My God will hear me.

Hebrews 13:6
Verse Concepts
so that we confidently say, "THE LORD IS MY HELPER, I WILL NOT BE AFRAID. WHAT WILL MAN DO TO ME?"

1 John 5:14
Verse Concepts
This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

2 Corinthians 5:5-8
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- for we walk by faith, not by sight-- read more.
Acts 24:14-15
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Galatians 5:5
Verse Concepts
For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

Philippians 1:3-6
I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now. read more.
Isaiah 12:1-2
Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me. "Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation."

Ezra 10:2
Verse Concepts
Shecaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, said to Ezra, "We have been unfaithful to our God and have married foreign women from the peoples of the land; yet now there is hope for Israel in spite of this.

2 Corinthians 3:4-5
Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,

Ephesians 3:12
Verse Concepts
in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.

1 John 3:21-22
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

John 14:1
Verse Concepts
"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

Romans 15:13
Verse Concepts
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 9:10
Verse Concepts
And those who know Your name will put their trust in You, For You, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You.

Psalm 37:3-5
Trust in the LORD and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the LORD, Trust also in Him, and He will do it.

Psalm 42:5
Verse Concepts
Why are you in despair, O my soul? And why have you become disturbed within me? Hope in God, for I shall again praise Him For the help of His presence.

Psalm 115:9-11
O Israel, trust in the LORD; He is their help and their shield. O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD; He is their help and their shield. You who fear the LORD, trust in the LORD; He is their help and their shield.

John 14:27
Verse Concepts
"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.

John 16:33
Verse Concepts
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

Romans 12:12
Verse Concepts
rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,

1 Timothy 6:17
Verse Concepts
Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.

Hebrews 4:15
Verse Concepts
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 10:19-23
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, read more.
1 Peter 1:13
Verse Concepts
Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:28
Verse Concepts
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

2 Chronicles 32:8
Verse Concepts
"With him is only an arm of flesh, but with us is the LORD our God to help us and to fight our battles." And the people relied on the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.

Proverbs 12:25
Verse Concepts
Anxiety in a man's heart weighs it down, But a good word makes it glad.

bible.knowing-jesus.com...

a reply to: antiantonym

ATS seems to have attracted a certain type of doom and gloom Christians. They understand the evils of their God and accept him, love, and adore, That he is coming to kill everybody except for them. I assume this gives them a feeling of superiority that nothing else quite matches.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: antiantonym

The Bible Project has a great bunch of YT vids on the Book's and subject's of the Bible . Boiling it down its about being more and more optimistic in the Hope we have in God and not on this place .

Because happy people don’t need to go to church. Happy people don’t need a guide to save them from their misery. Christianity relies on your misery, it relies on your guilt. If It didn’t make you feel terrible, you wouldn’t need it at all. If it didn’t insist that you were a piece of # that needs redemption, it would have no place in this world.

a reply to: antiantonym

I read them as future promises, not immediate promises
I don't think you read them the same way I do

The HOPE OF eternal life is taught in the New Testament. All the old Testament is for is to prove man is sinful whom even the ones walking with God and who were godly men, were incapable of being perfect. Thru the son Jesus, we are to be forgiven by how we forgive others as the Lord's Prayer Jesus passed down to his disciples.

The Comedian Black says the old testament is for Jews, he is Jewish, and it is written to get them under control (paraphrasing). The Christians got the loving kind God, he offers. The Jews got the vengeful one.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: antiantonym

ATS seems to have attracted a certain type of doom and gloom Christians. They understand the evils of their God and accept him, love, and adore, That he is coming to kill everybody except for them. I assume this gives them a feeling of superiority that nothing else quite matches.

So Woody like a response
Gods not evil, the world is
You are full of hate, that's sad

God is coming to judge the world, you chose who your allegiance is to

It's not a feeling of superiority, it's sadness because you are so filled with hate
Nothing would make me happier if God accepts everyone, even those who hate Him

Let's hope so.

a reply to: Woodcarver

How about you not hold back and tell us how you really hate Christians. Let your hate for them flow on this ats thread. I feel like you're holding back

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Because happy people don’t need to go to church. Happy people don’t need a guide to save them from their misery. Christianity relies on your misery, it relies on your guilt. If It didn’t make you feel terrible, you wouldn’t need it at all. If it didn’t insist that you were a piece of # that needs redemption, it would have no place in this world.

Wow Woody, you are nearly quoting scripture
That's what the New Testament states, but without the bitterness and far more eloquently

It does have a place, it's just you and your pious fundamentalism that attacks those who see it has a place

No better than the Christians I find hard to accept

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Woodcarver

How about you not hold back and tell us how you really hate Christians. Let your hate for them flow on this ats thread. I feel like you're holding back

I never hold back. I always say what i want. You can assume whatever you like and you can put words in my mouth if you wish but, i always say what i mean.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Because happy people don’t need to go to church. Happy people don’t need a guide to save them from their misery. Christianity relies on your misery, it relies on your guilt. If It didn’t make you feel terrible, you wouldn’t need it at all. If it didn’t insist that you were a piece of # that needs redemption, it would have no place in this world.

Look around Woody ...It seems to take all kinds to make the world go around and there are none missing .I suppose at this point I should ask you what Church you go to seeing you put a lot of emphasis on miserable people are the only ones that go there .

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Because happy people don’t need to go to church. Happy people don’t need a guide to save them from their misery. Christianity relies on your misery, it relies on your guilt. If It didn’t make you feel terrible, you wouldn’t need it at all. If it didn’t insist that you were a piece of # that needs redemption, it would have no place in this world.

Wow Woody, you are nearly quoting scripture
That's what the New Testament states, but without the bitterness and far more eloquently

It does have a place, it's just you and your pious fundamentalism that attacks those who see it has a place

No better than the Christians I find hard to accept

I just like to point out that folks like you hold no illusions as to the motives of your gods. You know that the bible is the main source of christian misery, and you bask in it. You need people to feel as guilty as you do, to justify the nonsense you try to sell as truth. Nosense you can’t back up with any source except for the bible. Without it, you would have to face yourself for what you are. A terrible person who wants others to be as miserable as you are. That is what the bible teaches you to do.

And you will agree with me. You do most of my heavy lifting for me, and thanks for that.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Christians are miserable not optimistic have a superiority complex and their God wants you and everyone like you dead based on your interpretation I understand why you hate those scumbags

Everyone can only be said to be on a quest for truth and understanding. There are many paths that lead to the same destination. No two alike, the same as no two people being alike.

There is choice... and there is understanding. Not understanding and hate occupy close proximity to each other, but intuition and hope overcome both. They remain a gift not everyone will receive or even seek.

Contentment in world affairs breeds a certain kind of familiarity and ease. It is false however and in a moment's notice might vanish. That is when Faith carries one through life's trials. Those with faith even know that death must come. But believe the ultimate destination is unfathomable in Splendor and Eternal.