Hating the rich over liking the poor

First I want to have a disclaimer that I don't believe that everyone falls in to this category.

Some people do have altruistic motives and genuinely want to help the poor.

Now on to the thread.

I have noticed an outcry from many democrats and the usual powerful in the left, academia, hollywood, the media, etc. about how evil the tacks cut bill is.

Many of the claims made are his this will try the poor and benefit the rich.

I noticed that it seems many people are far more focused on decrying the rich and showing a visceral hate for them more than they mention the poor.

Now you may disagree, but consider that many have shrugged off any news of poor people getting more money back, or getting raised or bonuses as a pittance and brushed it off.

I was watching some Jordan Peterson videos and they helped bring some things into perspective for me.

Peterson is a professor and clinical psychologist that I think is brilliant.

Here is a short video he did in the subject of middle and upper class intelectuals and their real motivations for claiming to help the poor.

(can't imbed on my phone but here is the link)

youtu.be...

Peterson tells of George Orwell writing the book The Road to Wigan Pier

The book is about coal miners and how brutal their life was.

He then comes to the conclusion they need social help. But when he looks at the leftist middle and upper class people calling for socialism to help the workers, he notices something troubling.

Its not that these people like the poor, in the contrary the seem to view them with contempt when really pressed.

But they hide behind the idea of helping the poor to achieve their real goal, attacking the rich.

And how do they define rich? Anyone with more money than them.

Orwell realised this movement actually sasnt a moral effort to help the poor, but merely a thinly veiled excuse to attack people that these people felt had more than them.

I think we see a lot of this today as well.

I have had discussions with people and seen others where the following question or a form of it is presented.

Would you rather have a country where there is massive income imequality, but most of the poor have base living conditions like food and shelter.

Or would you rather there be very little income inequality, but the poor be worse off.

Many people I believe would chose the second.

To me, this is reprehensible.

And look at how many in the groups I mentioned can hardly hold their disgust for the working class, fly over country deplorable clinging to their guns hands bibles. The uneducated hicks that don't know what's good for them.

It really quite telling

Now none of this is to say we shouldn't strive to have a better contey and want a system where everyone does better financially.

But I think we should look very hard at the people claiming a moral high ground by claiming only their policies are ethical and help the poor.

Because it might be that This is just an excuse for hating those that have more than the ones making this argument.

If your a Democrat your party is relying on your total ignorance to gain your vote

Also

If you want to help someone because of your altruism feel free to take advantage of what used to be a free market and create your own solution to things like poverty and stop expecting the government to extort me and waste my money on administrative cost and pensions to barely feed homeless and hungry people

I am not worried about moral high ground nor am I screaming for the poor or rich, but I am looking at Trumps Trickle down economics and thinking I can't believe people are falling for it again. Trickle down economics has been tried and it truly harmed our economy. I think it is all very short-sighted.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Business will naturally move towards lower expenses and when one of your major expenses is taxes the obvious next step is to somewhere with lower taxes like Ireland or Singapore

Taxes will not fix anything less government will

You mentioned George Orwells book about coal miners. The coal miners song:

"Load sixteen tons, whaddya get?

Another day older and deeper in debt.

St. Peter doncha call me, cause I can't gooo,

I owe my Soul to the Company store."

This version of that song is from an old B&W TV broadcast. How pertinent is it today to the masses of people saddled with endless debt?

Trickle down doesn't work they say.

Go tell that to the Chinese with all the American business, and India that have been run out of this country because the evil rich blah,blah effing blah.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Not short-sighted at all when you can save 15 million with your own tax-cut. It's called cronyism, amirite?

Moral high ground or simple objectivity, you decide.

a reply to: neo96

I think I'd rather tell it to the middle class that stagnated under the trickle down policies of Reagan and Bush.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Stagnated by snip.

Money was worth more than today.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I am not worried about moral high ground nor am I screaming for the poor or rich, but I am looking at Trumps Trickle down economics and thinking I can't believe people are falling for it again. Trickle down economics has been tried and it truly harmed our economy. I think it is all very short-sighted.

Trickle down economics is free market economics. It does work. You see it everyday if you are paying attention.

The problem is so many people are ignorant of basic economics and finance they are unable to connect the dots beyond their own little world.

A good example of trickle down is in NYC. The financial industry is obviously huge in NYC. Wall Street bankers get most of their income in a year end bonus based on their banking group's profitability. These bonuses can be $100k for someone fresh out of college to tens of millions for market making traders and deal makers.

A significant portion of the NYC economy depends on those bonuses. Every year around this time there are articles talking about Wall Street bonus payouts as a result because it is a bellwether for the broader city economy. Real estate. Restaurants. Construction. Travel. Fashion. Domestic Help. All kinds of industries benefit from money being spent. In bad years when bonuses aren't as high, even highly paid bankers cut back on frivolous spending.

Maybe that $100k kitchen renovation doesn't get done. So Joe Contractor see his business start to slow down. Now Joe can't hire Bob Plumber. Now Bob Plumber may put off buying a new f150. So now Bobby Carsalesman is losing a commission. It keeps going and going...

a reply to: Edumakated

It does work.

Nothing like... wait for it... WINNING!

No socialist could possibly beat our crony capitalists to their quantitative easing shemes but hey... you guys said it aint a centrally planned economy at all! Right?

*giggles*

What astonishes me is that the Right wingers hate taxes for social programs but are more than happy to support any and all war machines of the Military industrial complex, paying for $600 toilet seats, do nothing generals making 1mil a year with life long pensions, and our tax dollars going to rebuild countries that we destroyed. Obscene profits for corps like Halliburton and the private military while ignoring the enlisted man. Here's how it breaks down....





You know what the capital H is for.....

Entitlements......just a reminder, I payed into the system my entire working life. Touch SS or medicare and you have dembs all over again.

for all those that think trickle-down doesn't work either weren't an adult in the 80's or just weren't paying attention. Our economy was a complete mess and it was Reagan that pulled us out of it. Bush 1 and Clinton both inherited a fixed economy. The 90's were the best economic years in my lifetime. That didn't just happen by itself. Trump is our modern Reagan.

a reply to: Edumakated

That trickle down economics lesson says I have to live in some rich dude’s backyard to get some.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Trump is our modern Reagan.

You've got that part right.

"...we did not, I repeat, did not trade weapons, or anything else, for hostages. Nor will we."

a reply to: olaru12

I don't disagree about the fraud and waste in the military budget, but I have yet to see Generals making a mil a year (at least not from their military pay).

Here's a link to the Military Pay Charts for 2017

According to this, a top level General with 40 years experience makes $15,583.20 a month, or $186998.40 a year. That is before taxes and deductions. That's not saying that there aren't other benefits you get as a top level General in the military, but no one joined the military to get rich...

a reply to: Grambler

That sounds about right. It’s class hatred and envy, essentially. Worse, they probably just want their money. The fixed-pie fallacy, the notion that to gain wealth is to take it from others, has ruined some thought processes along the way.

Why the obsession with what people earn and what they pay?

Mind your own business and try to do better yourself.

Relying on government for your success is like relying on a distillery for your sobriety.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I am not worried about moral high ground nor am I screaming for the poor or rich, but I am looking at Trumps Trickle down economics and thinking I can't believe people are falling for it again. Trickle down economics has been tried and it truly harmed our economy. I think it is all very short-sighted.

Trickle down economics is free market economics. It does work. You see it everyday if you are paying attention.

The problem is so many people are ignorant of basic economics and finance they are unable to connect the dots beyond their own little world.

A good example of trickle down is in NYC. The financial industry is obviously huge in NYC. Wall Street bankers get most of their income in a year end bonus based on their banking group's profitability. These bonuses can be $100k for someone fresh out of college to tens of millions for market making traders and deal makers.

A significant portion of the NYC economy depends on those bonuses. Every year around this time there are articles talking about Wall Street bonus payouts as a result because it is a bellwether for the broader city economy. Real estate. Restaurants. Construction. Travel. Fashion. Domestic Help. All kinds of industries benefit from money being spent. In bad years when bonuses aren't as high, even highly paid bankers cut back on frivolous spending.

Maybe that $100k kitchen renovation doesn't get done. So Joe Contractor see his business start to slow down. Now Joe can't hire Bob Plumber. Now Bob Plumber may put off buying a new f150. So now Bobby Carsalesman is losing a commission. It keeps going and going...

People having more money to spend is (generally) good for the economy.

The objection to 'trickle down' economics is that it's based on the assumption that the best people to have more money are those who already have the most.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Edumakated

That trickle down economics lesson says I have to live in some rich dude’s backyard to get some.

There aren't any rich people where you live? Unless you built your own home out in the sticks of Alaska, chances are you are living in some rich dude's backyard even if you are too ignorant to know it. Are you employed? Does someone hire you to do work?

The point is that money flows down hill. Trickle up poverty never has worked.