A lot of Bitcoin enthusiast claim Bitcoin is a real threat to the fiat system...Are they serious???

a reply to: aiolosmartine

One of the two systems bubble is going to burst, first.

As an alternative to the fiat currency hegemony of US dollars and Petro dollars, more and more investment is turning to bitcoin.

So the value is taking off.

Just remember you cant cash out of bitcoin like you do a bank account. Its for purchases. You can invest today and buy something nice next week at a lower cost, but you can't take monetary 'dividends' , you can only use it for transactions, i.e. purchasing goods and services.

a reply to: aiolosmartine

Enlighten me how the TPBT are just going to lay down and let this cryptocurrency threaten their fiat system.

From: bitcoinmagazine.com...

Bitcoin has no central control: no central repository of information, no central management, and, crucially, no central point of failure. And yet, most of the actual services and businesses built within the Bitcoin ecosystem are centralized.

This isn't within their direct control. Should the fiat system fail, it will be because people decided that crypto is more valuable.

You realize these people would murder you and your family in an instant?

For any number of reasons. However, what would that do to stop crypto or gain them anything?

I'm not easily spooked. In fact they play around quite often.

a reply to: darkbake

Cryptos lost their 'currency' status when people started to make it worth more than it actually is. They aren't a currency for lets say I want to buy a stick of gum from bob, will I give him a bit coin? No, I will cash in my bit coin for currency to buy that stick of gum, it's like gold. Bitcoin was only used by black market internet users because they put a value on it, you can't realistically trade actual bank currency over the internet for guns, drugs and hookers, and you can't mail thousands of dollars or gold or silver to people to pay for such items so they chose a cryptic fake standard to do so. The problem now is that it became main stream and everyone wants in on it.
This exact same thing happened with Tulips! FLOWERS!

a reply to: strongfp

At the time of this writing there are around 1300 coins on the market. Many more coming. Some of them wish to address this problem. Some by staking, whereas the coin you have "do" the mining and you are rewarded with more tokens. There is another staking process where you are rewarded with a separate currency altogether (Neo and Gas).

You're right in that Bitcoin is far and above currency use but there are still plenty that are aiming to be as such.

A lot of Bitcoin enthusiast claim Bitcoin is a real threat to the fiat system...Are they serious???

No.
A ploy to get the value of "air" up before some folks retire and pull the braces out from under it.

a reply to: darkbake

The total amount of bitcoin doesn't increase over time. The amount that has been mined and is available increases, but there is still a total amount of bitcoin that will never increase past that number. Off the top of my head I believe that bitcoin has 21 million as a cap. Not all of those are mined. The difficulty to get a coin goes up over time, but it will never be more than that max number.

I'm going all out conspiracy theory on this one.

I have to wonder if it's the new silicone valley tech pump and dump scheme.

The reason we are seeing monster Apple "data" centers with 20' wide cabling going into them.

The Utah "data" center etc...

Using the silicone valley tech force to usher in cashless, or using the server farms to join in in the profits.

You can make money by running a computer, but the "computer guys" are going to take a pass.

Sounds like a electronic ponzi scheme to me.

Being allowed to be traded on wall street is suspicious enough.

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: avgguy
Bitcoin is officially the 15th largest currency in the world

Bitcoin isn't a currency. Hence why so many people don't actually take it seriously and think it's a scam.
For one, it's imaginary coins worth fiat currency, second you can't even stash it anywhere other than on the internet.
Gold, real estate, etc. will still be king once this ridiculous fake imaginary coins blows over.
In theory World of Warcraft gold and game time has a more stable economy than bitcoin.

Answer these two questions. How much money in American dollars does it cost to actually produce one bitcoin? How much money in American dollars does it cost to actually produce one American dollar?

I’ll give you a hint, it costs at least $50 in electricity alone to produce just one bitcoin and that’s not considering the tens of thousands of dollars in equipment used to mine it. So bitcoin has real value just from the aspect of what it costs to produce one.

ETA :you can stash your bitcoins off of the internet. You can have them on a thumb drive or almost any other type of external storage. In fact this is the recommend method of storing your bitcoins.

a reply to: aiolosmartine

If a government decides to make trading or possessing Bitcoins illegal, a good question would be how exactly it will enforce such a ban. It is impossible for a government to seize your Bitcoins, unless you decide to hand over your private keys. On the other hand the majority of citizens and institutions like to stay on the right side of the law. So the demand for Bitcoin would would get extremely low if the government decided to ban it. All exchanges in that country would also be shuttered and buying/selling Bitcoin would be difficult and risky. This would suffocate Bitcoin in that country and the government’s objectives might be achieved.

a reply to: aiolosmartine

Ill give you a reason. While what you say these people can and do is true, they are also big fans of adopting and taking advantage of lucrative markets. See the poppy or any drug trade market for example.

Add that with the ability to easily see where all huge sums of said market are, AND track its movements? Youve got a winner there for government exploitation and spying.

a reply to: strongfp

Bob would be a complete dumbass to not take a bitcoin for a stick of gum. Just saying, and the whole black market currency thing was simply FUD to keep the mainstream afraid of getting in on it for as long as possible while the big players in the game accumulated.

Also, you most certainly can trade bank currency for guns, drugs, and prostitutes over the internet. Not even just on the darkweb. Is it dangerous, risky, stupid? Sure. But it still is a thing.

The creator of bitcoin certainly did not have any interest in developing a 'fake cryptic standard' simply for trade on illegal markets online. Case in point, said creator holds millions of genesis bitcoin without cashing out to this day.

originally posted by: Painterz
Until they fix the transaction time and fee problem, it will never be a threat to anything.

And I don't think the technology allows solutions that those problems.

Bitcoin is being bid up by ten or so big players who control most of the bitcoins. I expect they have a target in mind for cashing out.

You are exactly right bitcoin is seriously flawed. 10+ hour transaction times and high fees.

If the price ever stagnates or drops for any period of time miners will quit and transactions will get even slower and more expensive. It has no hope of long term or even intermediate success it is crap tech compared to many other coins.

It's great it was the first and has name recognition, but it is not a good coin for anything other than trading in my opinion.

I am mainly invested in ripple. 4 second transactions, one one thousandth of a percent transaction fee or less, and a company with 200 mil in financing behind it and deals with 100 banks already.

It isn't an anarchists coin, it wants to work with the system which is why it has a chance to succeed.

originally posted by: JinMI

There is another staking process where you are rewarded with a separate currency altogether (Neo and Gas).

China will eventually go with Neo, but Ethereum is here to stay in the western world.

coindesk.com

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: avgguy
Bitcoin is officially the 15th largest currency in the world

Bitcoin isn't a currency. Hence why so many people don't actually take it seriously and think it's a scam.
For one, it's imaginary coins worth fiat currency, second you can't even stash it anywhere other than on the internet.
Gold, real estate, etc. will still be king once this ridiculous fake imaginary coins blows over.
In theory World of Warcraft gold and game time has a more stable economy than bitcoin.

Actually no, you would be rather dumb to leave your bitcoins on the internet for anything other than to sell them.

it is a frenzy right now for sure, but some form of digital currency will win out, it has too much benefit to business and consumers not too.

No more 4 to 5 day wire transfers, no more 3% credit card fees, the ability to have software automatically make payments when milestones are met.

It will happen, only thing that could stop it is if encryption is able to be broken trivially.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: aiolosmartine

One of the two systems bubble is going to burst, first.

As an alternative to the fiat currency hegemony of US dollars and Petro dollars, more and more investment is turning to bitcoin.

So the value is taking off.

Just remember you cant cash out of bitcoin like you do a bank account. Its for purchases. You can invest today and buy something nice next week at a lower cost, but you can't take monetary 'dividends' , you can only use it for transactions, i.e. purchasing goods and services.

That is not correct, you can exchange it for cash on many exchanges, or exchange it for other coins which you can also cash out of.

There is actually very few places that will take it as payment anymore, why would they when they have to wait hours to know if the transaction is good.

Right now it is only good as an investment.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: strongfp

Bob would be a complete dumbass to not take a bitcoin for a stick of gum. Just saying, and the whole black market currency thing was simply FUD to keep the mainstream afraid of getting in on it for as long as possible while the big players in the game accumulated.

Also, you most certainly can trade bank currency for guns, drugs, and prostitutes over the internet. Not even just on the darkweb. Is it dangerous, risky, stupid? Sure. But it still is a thing.

The creator of bitcoin certainly did not have any interest in developing a 'fake cryptic standard' simply for trade on illegal markets online.Case in point, said creator holds millions of genesis bitcoin without cashing out to this day.

You are assuming a lot here. But from when I used to browse the deep web back when I was 17- 18, bitcoin was a thing, it's been around for a while. And it was the only currency used because of the way it worked. It wasn't a real currency, it was simply a mid way asset that could be transferred into currency, like I said already.
The point about bob isn't that he's up with the times and wouldn't accept one bit coin for a stick of gum, it's that bob wouldn't sell his stick of gum for one BTC, no-one would buy it, it's like I wouldn't hand over a 16oz gold bar for a stick of gum either. Hence why we have fiat currency. The text displayed in bold is also further evidence that it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme.

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: avgguy
Bitcoin is officially the 15th largest currency in the world

Bitcoin isn't a currency. Hence why so many people don't actually take it seriously and think it's a scam.
For one, it's imaginary coins worth fiat currency, second you can't even stash it anywhere other than on the internet.
Gold, real estate, etc. will still be king once this ridiculous fake imaginary coins blows over.
In theory World of Warcraft gold and game time has a more stable economy than bitcoin.

It will happen, only thing that could stop it is if encryption is able to be broken trivially.

Like that doesn't happen on a daily basis already ... with quantum computers on the verge of becoming a thing it will eat right through the wallets of crypto users.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: aiolosmartine

If a government decides to make trading or possessing Bitcoins illegal, a good question would be how exactly it will enforce such a ban. It is impossible for a government to seize your Bitcoins, unless you decide to hand over your private keys. On the other hand the majority of citizens and institutions like to stay on the right side of the law. So the demand for Bitcoin would would get extremely low if the government decided to ban it. All exchanges in that country would also be shuttered and buying/selling Bitcoin would be difficult and risky. This would suffocate Bitcoin in that country and the government’s objectives might be achieved.

True, but they could shut down the exchanges, and make it illegal to sell. That would effectively kill it.

The idea a coin that is outside of the banks and government control will be allowed to become dominant is ridiculous. Countries exist through taxes and anything that takes away a governments ability to tax will be stopped, period.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: avgguy
Bitcoin is officially the 15th largest currency in the world

Bitcoin isn't a currency. Hence why so many people don't actually take it seriously and think it's a scam.
For one, it's imaginary coins worth fiat currency, second you can't even stash it anywhere other than on the internet.
Gold, real estate, etc. will still be king once this ridiculous fake imaginary coins blows over.
In theory World of Warcraft gold and game time has a more stable economy than bitcoin.

Answer these two questions. How much money in American dollars does it cost to actually produce one bitcoin? How much money in American dollars does it cost to actually produce one American dollar?

I’ll give you a hint, it costs at least $50 in electricity alone to produce just one bitcoin and that’s not considering the tens of thousands of dollars in equipment used to mine it. So bitcoin has real value just from the aspect of what it costs to produce one.

ETA :you can stash your bitcoins off of the internet. You can have them on a thumb drive or almost any other type of external storage. In fact this is the recommend method of storing your bitcoins.

It costs way more than 50 dollars to produce one bitcoin. And even at that, it still costs DOLLARS, USD, CND, YEN, etc, etc to actually trade your 'coins' and make them valuable. You can't have bitcoin without physical cash or fiat currency, which is already backed by physical goods, commodities, and real debts. Bitcoin is just there, sure on a thumb drive or a memory card, but like any software if you lose it, o well life goes on. Lose your house, not so much.

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: avgguy
Bitcoin is officially the 15th largest currency in the world

Bitcoin isn't a currency. Hence why so many people don't actually take it seriously and think it's a scam.
For one, it's imaginary coins worth fiat currency, second you can't even stash it anywhere other than on the internet.
Gold, real estate, etc. will still be king once this ridiculous fake imaginary coins blows over.
In theory World of Warcraft gold and game time has a more stable economy than bitcoin.

It will happen, only thing that could stop it is if encryption is able to be broken trivially.

Like that doesn't happen on a daily basis already ... with quantum computers on the verge of becoming a thing it will eat right through the wallets of crypto users.

It doesn't happen now. Only ones that may have that ability which I doubt is the NSA.

Quantum computers are potentially a threat, but we are several years away from that, and if encryption can be broken pretty much all data stored anywhere will be vulnerable, so something tells me quantum computer manufacturers will try to keep that from the public.

After all how do you think the Feds data is secured. The whole world is screwed if encryption gets broken and it gets in the hands of hackers, not just crypto currency.