Bill banning Down syndrome abortions passes in Ohio, heads to Kasich's desk

a reply to: smkymcnugget420

the idea that a women has the right to determine what is going on in her own body up till the point of viability, and further under certain circumstances is really more consistent than the idea that we should give almost all women that right, except of course, those who might wish to abort because they know there is a genetic reason to believe that the baby might have this one specific problem...

the idea that we should allow women, after the point of viability the right to an abortion if severe abnormalities are present is more consistent than saying that all women but those whose severe abnormalities are related to one certain ailment have the right.

Ultimately I feel if someone wants to abort a child with Downs that is their choice, but I do not like it.

It stinks to much like some people in the past that were considered pretty heinous by history, and I would rather not associate myself with those types.

If my wife gets pregnant and we were offered that choice I would like to think I would still choose to have the child.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: pavil

You want the mandate to live with Down Syndrome. YOU? You'd live like that if you could go back and choose?

I call a case like this the right to not have to. 20 minutes of plastic forceps vs 60 years on the low.

It's a valid social debate to have.

Some societies allow for assisted suicides of people with certain issues for example.

To use the train of thought of auto aborting Downs babies. Why don't we just kill every non functional human who is a drain on society? Got a closed injury or a event that turns you into a quadriplegic?

Sorry.

It's an ethical debate worth having. If life is worth living, should everyone have the same right to it, based on medical conditions?

Just for the record, I am for protecting the rights of the unborn, but I see why abortion still exists. I know if I were a fetus in the womb, I'd like to have legal protections of my literal life. But the unborn have little lobbying power, who is to defend the defenseless? ...and I'm the Nazi......

It's a tricky dilemma of that I have no doubt.

Oh goody, another BS division story, or emotionally manipulative issue brought forward to keep people fighting so a few can redistribute our wealth.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: Abysha

They get WIC and hard work like the rest of us peasents. Deal with it.

No. The "rest of you peasants" aren't being forced to raise a child with down syndrome by threat of law.

No matter how much milk and cheese you buy, it's not going to compensate for the lifetime burden of raising that child.

You want to force her to have that baby? YOU need to help shoulder that burden.

Good points! Since DS children are living a lot longer, what is the government planning to do for these folks after they become adults and mom and dad have passed on? Is the government planning on stepping in with a comprehensive care package for these folks? I doubt it, that's where prisons and homeless shelters step in....

a reply to: pointessa

or european style workhouses.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: pavil

You'd live like that if you could go back and choose?

But don't you see, that's the point. We don't get to choose.

and quality of life is subjective to the individual, not objectively quantifiable.

a reply to: dawnstar

so a women has the right to terminate life becuase she is in ownership of her body... yet drugs are illegal to put into your body...that you also own? or wearing a helmet, do i not own the right to smear my brain across the pavment if i so choose... or end my life of the body i supposedly am in ownership of?


...so about that consistency...

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: EternalSolace

Are 20 out of 32 lawmakers also for passing laws to provide these mothers with a substantial income, with enough resources to care for this baby for the rest of the mother's life? And do the 20 out of 32 lawmakers also want to pass laws providing for the baby in question? Their education? Their therapy?

I don't pose this question specifically in the context of a down syndrome baby. I would ask this question about any law trying to outlaw what a human does with their own reproductive system.

If taxpayers are wanting to dictate lives, they need to own that burden. From what I've seen, it's the ones who want to control adult bodies who specifically don't want to help shoulder the burden.

so well said, abysha. i feel like some lawmakers and their adherents are perfectly happy to dictate what happens with someone else's pregnancy and then abandon any societal responsibility for the outcome of that decision.

a reply to: smkymcnugget420

well, let's see, think you got something a little backwards here...

but let me do the same thing you have done....

if you are pro gun, you want to be able to have the means to protect yourself, your family, your finances, your way of life from the thug that might break into you house to rob or kill you, don't you??

and, if our country's intelligence sees that there is a danger posed from say korea, you want the country to have the means to take a first strike and bomb the crap out of the country, men, women, children, who cares.... just as long as they protect you, your family, your finances, and your way of life....
am I right?

shouldn't women have the same right when they see an overwhelming threat to their life, their finances, their way of life. lately, I can't help but get the feeling that some on these boards seem to think that women, and young girls, shouldn't even have the right to speak up when they are sexually abused by men, young girls...who by the way, if they were to get pregnant in such an assault could very possibly find their lives, their health, their way of life, their financial future at great risk!!!!

none of your examples limits your ability to protect yourself.... they do the exact opposite, they enforce rules designed to protect you from your own stupidity!!!

originally posted by: SailorJerry
Because I dont know many women who would call raising a child a "burden" except for those who are seriously self centered and self serving, or those who arent women

perhaps you do actually know women who would honestly say that -- just not to you, judgey mcjudgerson.

a reply to: fiverx313

I'm sorry, your responses are hillarious. haha Thank you for having a sense of humour! omg we need more of you here lol.

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: SailorJerry

A girls uterus is not my business. How would I know what’s in there?

Again a non answer.

Are you pro killing babies with downs syndrome, answer the question instead of trying to go a different direction.

If one of your 3 children had downs in the womb would you have killed it?

Yes, I would.
As someone WITH a Down sibling who got every DS short straw for health in the book, I know full well how crushing the financial and mental drain raising them, then caring for them their entire foreseeable lives, is. It's my right to opt out of that kind of ultra-heavy commitment. As it is for anyone else weighing the pros and cons of DS. It's not a roses & kitten kisses handicap.

End of discussion.

a reply to: Nyiah

I don't believe you could or would kill your own child, saying and doing are worlds apart.

End of discussion.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Nyiah

I don't believe you could or would kill your own child, saying and doing are worlds apart.

End of discussion.

Many people choose to do so for that exact medical reason the world over.

Contrary to popular belief, few people actually WANT a medically burdensome child. Neither my husband nor myself want that responsibility, either, it's a non-issue for us to opt for abortion in that event.

Edit: There's a huge difference between a test missing something and being saddled with a surprise soul-crushing medical problem for the duration of your child's life upon birthing them, and knowing well ahead of time there's a major problem that you can decide to take on the mantle of rearing or not. My youngest brother's a multi-million dollar, multi-surgery, multi-medication, multi-therapy kid with heavy helpings of constant daily stress levied at my dad & stepmom. I'll pass on that "blessing", thank you.

a reply to: smkymcnugget420

Those laws are equal. They apply to male and female because they are not personal medical choices.


ETA. Anti abortion laws aim at body parts.

Sooo.... If a female with down syndrome wants to get an abortion, She can’t.


I think, if a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to get one. Period. Why should her reason be scrutinzed? It’s nobodies business but hers. Forcing her to take a child to delivery against her will is barbaric and turns her into a broodmare.

a reply to: smkymcnugget420
I think you've had a few too many nuggets there smoky. Two parents making the difficult decision to have an abortion is not even close to doing "whatever want without consequences". It's their potential child, they are the ones who have to watch it suffer for life, and if they think it would be merciful to stop suffering before it begins that's their call.

I wish we lived in a fantasy world where everything was perfect, but we don't.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: smkymcnugget420
I think you've had a few too many nuggets there smoky. Two parents making the difficult decision to have an abortion is not even close to doing "whatever want without consequences". It's their potential child, they are the ones who have to watch it suffer for life, and if they think it would be merciful to stop suffering before it begins that's their call.

I wish we lived in a fantasy world where everything was perfect, but we don't.

You've got that backwards, down children and adults are generally quite happy, they don't really know any different and unless they are abused they will be fine, and as others have said generally down syndrome people are very loving and have big hearts.

The suffering is for the parents and carers, it is hard enough raising a child to be successful in this world, having a child with a severe limiting ability to function in this world is debilitating and the parents should be allowed to make their own choices in these matters. These law makers are idiots and should mind their own business.