Democratic lawmaker: Women's clothing an 'invitation' to harassment

Right after 9-11 I had gotten into the habit of reading an arab news site that reported on what was happening in Saudi Arabia, where women are forced to be covered in big black tent-like garments with nothing showing but their eyes. So anyway, periodically men would be arrested and flogged for harassing women in the street. So you see, it is not how women are dressed that is the problem. It is not where women go or what they do- it is that men give themselves permission to harass women and they always have a rationale- "well, why was she dressed like that?" "well, why was she in the place at that hour?" "well, why was she doing that sexy dance?" etc.

I vote Republican and yet this is my viewpoint. It is all about humans needing to control their baser instincts - for their own personal growth and for the good of society.

Sal

a reply to: ketsuko

This topic can be such a minefield. lol

I feel women should be able to wear what they like. But there should definitely be limits in the workplace. However, that being said, some of the more "modest" clothing can be worn in attractive ways.

The problem lies with the men in my opinion. I appreciate the woman form. And if I see a woman showing it off, sure I take a second look. But I do not sit and stare, follow them around or even make remarks. (sometimes if it's a woman i've known a long time and we have a good friendship, I will compliment if it's a nice outfit. But never make advances). Some men tend to think that a woman is dressed just for him. They get in a caveman mode and become overly aggressive. It is in part instincts but I also think some of it is learned behavior from family and peers.

I've learned that if a woman is interested, they will tend to make other actions than just an outfit. Problem is a lot of men don't recognize those things. (I will admit that I have almost no "flirt-dar" lol)

Let's be honest. We all have a built in desire for the opposite sex. People need to learn to inhibit their impulses and treat each other with dignity and respect. Sure, procreation is fun. I'd say a majority think this lol. But I assure you (on both sides) that it's not on a person's mind 24/7. It is possible to admire someone without mentally bedding them.

However, if she's standing in your office door for a half hour wearing a mini-skirt and tank top, it's pretty safe to say you can probably ask her on a date lol

originally posted by: Abysha


What? Sex in general is a commodity in entertainment. Men also flaunt their stuff. If a pop star dances on stage, wearing skimpy clothing, flashing some skin... what does that have to do with what other people wear?

You are conflating show business with day-to-day life and behavior.

Again, it comes down to the insinuation that I have to dress a certain way in order for others to behave in a decent manner. And again, screw that.

Well, firstly, realize that Adam and Eve were both naked in the garden.

There was no problem.

God made them that way. They were perfect. And neither of them disturbed the other by exposing all that flesh.

So, the issue is really what goes on in "the mind".

Because of what goes on in the mind, people cover up the flesh.

We shouldn't have to. We should be able to walk about naked without disturbing others.

But, it ain't so, at the moment.

A large part of this is due to the society's "conventions" and "traditional signals".

It's a special language of "hiding and revealing" that evolved over a long period of time, that we humans use "to signal" others about what is going on in our "thoughts."

Why do transgenders "cross dress" ? It ain't biological. We humans "invent the dress code" for men and women.

But, in order "to signal" others about their "own thoughts" some people pick the "language symbols" that effectively send those messages to others about who they are "inside" their "minds."

Those "language symbols" are all due to "conventions" established over time.

So, really, this is what we're talking about.

Some people "abuse" the "language", "challenging" the "meanings" of "the signals" we send to each other.

They do this deliberately, for effect, or unconsciously, without realizing it in some circumstances.

Especially, in America, where people immigrate from all over the world, with different conventions for those same signals, there's an element of confusion, lack of understanding, lack of awareness, combined with the rebellious nature of younger generations, and tendency to overthrow the rules and protocols of the forefathers, there arises conflict.

When we can all walk the earth naked again, "without noticing" that we are, in fact, naked, we'll have arrived back at our initial state in the garden of Eden.

a reply to: ketsuko



I was thinking about this very thing and I do believe that women should exercise a little better judgment in the way they sometimes dress. A lot of twenty something ladies now dress the way prostitutes used to 25 years ago. If a guy walked around with his genitalia hanging out that might be considered, rightfully, as a form of sexually provocative behavior. But some women choose to dress in ways that are viewed as sexually provocative by men, and no one says a word. I think women should respect themselves better. I guess if you want to dress in tight shorts, a thong, or in ways that make your breasts more noticeable, its your business, but its kind of hypocritical when those same women get upset because men look at them. Guys, I am sorry to say are weak when it comes to this, and there is more than a little cave man left in our brains. Sometimes those two factors get together and we behave like idiots over a woman.

Dress like a whore. men look and get aroused. Bad things happen. Men should resist but there is no denying that dressing like discussed does help bring these terrible acts to women. When you advertise your body don't be surprised when there eager unwelcome buyers.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
Dress like a whore. men look and get aroused. Bad things happen. Men should resist but there is no denying that dressing like discussed does help bring these terrible acts to women. When you advertise your body don't be surprised when there eager unwelcome buyers.

What you say is so true. Its the bad men who abuse woman, a decent human being wouldn’t touch a woman if she was even naked but its the bad apples amongst the men, who are many, and woman just have to realize that

Of course, one has the right to dress the way the want but reality dictates what the Buddhist call--Skillful means in ones social attire when men are around


Common sense

originally posted by: Willtell

What you say is so true. Its the bad men who abuse woman, a decent human being wouldn’t touch a woman if she was even naked but its the bad apples amongst the men, who are many, and woman just have to realize that

There are no bad men and good men.

Each man can be put in situations where he does things others label as bad or good.

That's why the Lord's prayer has that phrase: "Lead us not into temptation..."

The best of us can be led to do evil.

Only Jesus was perfect. And they nailed him to a cross anyway.

a reply to: openminded2011

I agree. I have one white long sleeve that I wear to work that I have to wear a tank underneath because it's just that thin. I'm sure a less modest person would simply go with her bra hanging out through the thin white cloth, but I wear that and the white tank underneath it ... and put a cardi over it. If it weren't for the thinness, it would be quite modest in cut.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Willtell

What you say is so true. Its the bad men who abuse woman, a decent human being wouldn’t touch a woman if she was even naked but its the bad apples amongst the men, who are many, and woman just have to realize that

There are no bad men and good men.

Each man can be put in situations where he does things others label as bad or good.

That's why the Lord's prayer has that phrase: "Lead us not into temptation..."

The best of us can be led to do evil.

Only Jesus was perfect. And they nailed him to a cross anyway.

That to me is just religious dogma.

One person is only perfect…no way


And there is such a thing as good and evil

Don’t complicate what’s simple, you only get more confused

a reply to: openminded2011

I do believe that women should exercise a little better judgment in the way they sometimes dress.

They can dress how they wish if it makes them feel good and it should not be an invitation to harassment.

I think women should respect themselves better.

I think a woman can better judge how she respects herself than you can, unless you want to legislate how women respect themselves.

Guys, I am sorry to say are weak when it comes to this, and there is more than a little cave man left in our brains. Sometimes those two factors get together and we behave like idiots over a woman.

So, blame neanderthal genetics in men not being able to control themselves and acting appropriately toward women? Basically, "We can't control ourselves!"

Or rather, blame women for enticing men simply by how they dress.

What a pathetic, chauvinistic cop out.

a reply to: Liquesence

Nobody’s blaming woman. It’s more God’s fault or nature's than anyone else.

Would you advise your daughter to dress provocatively in a biker bar?

Another analogy, sorry I know you don’t like them. I remember the earthquake...

If your child goes out in the cold with an undershirt and catches cold and you castigate him.
He says, don’t blame me ma, blame the weather

a reply to: ketsuko

What are his Opinions of Men who Put Sausages or Bananas Down their Pants , and Show Off In Front of Innocent Females ?

a reply to: Willtell

Nobody’s blaming woman.

Tacitly, couched in clever language (others explicitly), many certainly are.

It’s more God’s fault or nature's than anyone else.

So no free will or personal responsibility? God made the sexy women to be harassed?

Would you advise your daughter to dress provocatively in a biker bar?

Corporate workplaces are akin to biker bars? Everyday society is a like biker bar?

If my daughter is an adult she can dress how she wishes and go where she wishes. It's not her fault how men respond.

If your child goes out in the cold with an undershirt and catches cold and you castigate him.

So, you correlate women to children insofar as them being unable to make their own decisions...for themselves?

a reply to: Liquesence

no...

a reply to: Liquesence

I Hear Camel Toes are Seldom Overlooked by Men . Why is that ?

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Liquesence

no...

Then stop blaming women.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Liquesence

I Hear Camel Toes are Seldom Overlooked by Men . Why is that ?

Do you believe everything you hear?

a reply to: Liquesence

I never blamed woman

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Liquesence

no...

Then stop blaming women.

I think both sides bear some responsibility.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Liquesence

I never blamed woman

Explicitly, no.

Implicitly, your comments in this thread lay blame on women for how they dress.