More crimes against humanity by Kim Jong-un - Ghost Disease

a reply to: Indrasweb

I don't have answers I'm afraid, I only have questions.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I guess we're in the same boat there then...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Arguably that is comparing apples to oranges, respectfully.

The United States is a republic, and has no public obligation to take of people, ensure their success or provide basic needs.

NK (for better or for worse) is communist/socialist (they use both to describe themselves). This puts the State as the primary care giver and head of each household, thereby making them directly responsible for the basic needs and success of their people.

The fact they have reneged on their social contract with their people is evident.

Comparing lawful exercises/presence of US forces in allied/international territory to a rogue regime developing illegal nuclear weapons that commits mass genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity just doesn't work. Kim Jong-un is exactly the same caliber of a#hole as Adolph Hitler. We are too different to compare in any meaningful way (from our actions to our political systems).

Even if you ignore the massive human rights abuses in NK, the continual provocations/threats by NK including their continued acquisition of illegal WMDs and deflect by erroneously blaming the United States... how do you reconcile the major global arms race this will spur?

Every dictator, third world nation and aspiring tyrant is paying careful attention to our response in NK. If we allow the aggression, war crimes, human rights abuses as well as illegal WMD development to go unchecked, these people will be embolded to develop their own weapons programs.

Afterall, the only reason most of those countries are compliant in the global security order is out of fear of US reprisals/regime toppling. What happens when that risk ceases to exist?

Not to mention the legal precedent this sets. We invade/depose Saddam Hussein over alleged WMDs and for being a tyrannical dictator, but when we are 100% certain NK *has* WMDs and KJU is a tyrannical dictator... we do nothing? What message does that send? What precedent does it set? How does this tie our hands down the road?

If you ask me (and the WH seems to agree), this threat should have been ended 25-50 years ago. Sadly it has fallen on our shoulders now. If we fail, we will be letting our future generations down who will have to deal with this menace. Only instead of

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Same here, for the most part

Oh.... and lots of opinions of course (probably too many)

a reply to: Indrasweb

How friendly is NK to the international banking system?

Some additional information on Russia's older program and how it may be impacting events in modern North Korea

Mysteries of the Soviets

The Soviet BW program had five major subprograms:

Bonfire, the main program, which succeed in making multi-antibiotic resistance for bacteria and modified antigenic structures for viruses (bad things)

Factor, which sought higher virulence out of existing agents, as well as higher stability and new outcomes — which are basic goals for any BW program, but again, were being done with molecular genetics methods for the most part

Hunter, which attempted to make hybrids of bacteria and viruses — apparently they were trying to come up with agents that were essentially bacterial, but if you used antibiotics to kill the bacteria, they would then release viruses into the system, which sounds like something from a movie

Chimera, which were working on "exotic viral genes" (i.e. making better Ebola)

Flute, which were trying to attack neuropeptide regulators, bioweapons meant for targeted assassinations All together they produced twelve "recipes," as they called them, which were "type-verified" and ready to produce. Some of these were mass produced to the tune of hundreds of tons.

Leitenberg and Zilinskas were able to identify eleven of them, and they're scary — anthrax, plague, tularemia, and Marburg virus, to name a few ones that even I recognized — but the identity of the last one is still a mystery to them.

SFSU

In his book, Alibek, a Kazakh by birth, says the Soviet state devoted a considerable part of its treasury to readying deadly germs for war. At its peak in the late 1980s, he writes, the program had 60,000 employees working at scores of sites throughout the Soviet Union. "The Americans had just two specialists in anthrax," he wrote of his observations during his first tour of U.S. sites as part of a Soviet-American inspection agreement in 1991. "We had two thousand."

About a dozen of the 40 institutes that were part of Biopreparat, the civilian cover group that Alibek helped run, were used "exclusively" for offensive agents and weapons for the military, he wrote. After he fled Russia and took up residence in the United States, Alibek says, he was approached by intermediaries of emissaries of several countries that courted him for his deadly expertise, including South Korea, France and Israel. The work for which he was to be hired was defensive, the intermediaries said.

At least 25 people who used to work in the Soviet germ-warfare program now work in the United States in nonweapons work, he writes. It is impossible to know how many have been recruited overseas. But there is no doubt, he adds, "that their expertise has been attracting bidders," including countries unfriendly to the United States.

The germ warriors staying behind apparently can be dangerous as well. He said he had recently received a disconcerting flier from a Moscow-based company, Bioeffekt Ltd. "It offered, by mail order, three genetically engineered strains of tularemia," Alibek said.

Black Market Bioweapons

The technical expertise in weapons of mass destruction that remains available in the essentially closed societies of the former Soviet Union is perhaps as great a threat as any stockpiled materials. The countries of the former Soviet Union are experiencing great economic reverses. The scientists (who used to get the best of everything), now are paid little (and even that payment may be months late in coming) or have lost their jobs altogether. There are significant economic pressures that could lead to WMD materials, weapons and technological expertise being sold on the black market.

In addition, biological and chemical weapons have been developed in many countries and are presumed to be of great interest to terrorist organizations. Many analysts expect to see their use—in terrorist attacks or on the battlefield— within the next decade. Although it is widely believed that Iraq did not use biochemical weapons on U.S. troops because the U.S. promised swift, severe retaliation, General Charles A. Horner has stated that “Iraqi generals reported the reason they didn’t use chemical weapons was because if they used them…they would suffer many more casualties than we would.” (2) The expertise available in the Soviet Union, if purchased on the black market, could greatly increase the comfort level with biochemical weapons for countries of concern and terrorists

There is alot more information available on the web linking other nations like Iran and China to similar activities....

Never fear. South Korea is sending a hit squad to get rid of the tubby tyrant.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

defectors never seem to have anything nice to say.

is it true?

we know from past defector stories its unlikely to be true.

a reply to: Thorneblood

If the results are true that there was no contamination of these defectors, that were near the testing region, then I cannot see how they could ever have been irradiated. The sickness could very well be the results of biological testing. Out there, is where they would do it, as well.

The thought that there are vials of genetically modified Anthrax, that start killing as soon as the vial is open..... is a very scary thought, to say the least. How many other vials like this are throughout the world in stockpiles.... and how could it possible ever be controlled in the future?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Indrasweb

How friendly is NK to the international banking system?

Well, actually, you may not know it but here in Japan, very friendly and even still when missiles are being shot at this country. Yes, the north koreans living here can and do send yen and maybe dollars back to NK. They are now limited to 100 USD per transaction per day if I'm correct on this.

a reply to: charlyv

How many other vials like this are throughout the world in stockpiles

According to some of the links i posted, North Korea could be in possession of Tonnes (tons?) and old world Russia's research spread across most of what was once the USSR. It was stated that in some cases the current residents of those countries might not even be fully aware of whats laying around in concealed bunkers and hidden caches, but that Russia apparently also produced Tonnes of the stuff.

That doesnt even take into account China, which it was believed was transporting these materials to North Korea and Iran, or whatever is available via the DarkNet and Black Market auctions.

The short answer is you don't wanna know, it probably wouldn't help you sleep better at night. I mean, look how easy it was for North Korea to assassinate Lil Kim's brother by smuggling VX in two parts that would have been harmless until combined on the poor guys face.

Now picture how easy it would be to smuggle just a few vials of something as dreaded as Yellow fever or smallpox and drop it in one of the busier airports.

What perhaps concerns me more than most things in the whole NBC range (nuclear, bio, chem) of WMDS is that North Korea is already a pretty isolated nation. So while most of the major players in this game are genuinely fearful of intentionally releasing something this destructive because it could easily come back to strike their own nations, North Korea could (perhaps more than any other nation with this kind of power) completely quarantine themselves with greater effect than the U.S., Russia or China ever could.

Captain Trips is a bad mother.....

It should be noted that among some specialists its believed much of what North Korea can do in this regard is more propaganda than fact, but i believe there is enough evidence (such as it is) to at least acknowledge the high level of potential for any attack from North Korea to be far more devastating than a simple nuclear strike.

a reply to: Thorneblood

One thing is that is most likely true here is that with this kind of unaccountability, someone, somehow is going to exploit it.
I agree it is really too scary to contemplate.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: JBurns

if i was the leader of north korea, i see what the united states did to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and wonder when my country is next. i'd do every thing in my power to protect my country and people. even if that means developing nuclear weapons. north korea is surrounded by nations who help keep the balance in the region. china, japan, south korea and even russia help maintain "peace" in the region. i believe kim un has spoken to the leaders of those nations. he must have made it known that the threat of an attack from the united states is a real threat. north korea isn't standing alone. i don't know what will happen if the united states enters into conflict with north korea, but the response from its neighbors won't be pleasant.

the united states needs to back off its military stance on north korea and work on creating a fiscal partnership. if the united states cares about the well being of the north korean people, then send humanitarian aid, medical help, food, clothing.

It's a fact that the leader of NK has murdered many of his "people"

Some info is starting to actually be told and shared. Here's a video, grab a tissue, it's a heartbreaker.



One can only hope the Kim Jung Un is out of power soon. And yes I know the video is a older....but the message isn't. One who is willing to do what he has done to his own people wouldn't blink at annihilating his own people or others. If rumors of his illness were true or if they happen to become true and he becomes terminally ill, I think he would most likely try to take everyone down he could.

a reply to: charlyv

Two things from this article caught my eye...the first is the story of the child born without genitals being killed. This is actually rare but not unheard of even in America.

Penile agenesis is a birth defect in humans, occurring about once in 5–6 million male births, in which a male child is born without a penis. A partner condition is testicular or gonadal agenesis. This is when a male child is born without gonads and consequently develops no testes.

A baby girl may be born without a vagina or have the vaginal opening blocked by a layer of cells that are higher up in the vagina than where the hymen is. A missing vagina is most often due to Mayer-Rokitansky-Kuster-Hauser syndrome.

Then there is this bit...

While the country's first nuclear test wasn’t until 2006, the defectors tell stories of trout dying in the mountain streams and the area's prized pine mushrooms disappearing long before then. The president of SAND, Choi Kyung Hui, who is also a defector but not from Kilju, suggested military activity at Punggye-ri in the years leading up to the tests could explain contamination in the area.

But Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress, a scientist-in-residence at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, California, has doubts that radiation damaged the environment and residents' health. He said that if any radioactive material had leaked, even from a reported tunnel collapse this month following the sixth test, powerful sensors in the region that "sniff" the atmosphere would have detected it. The same goes for previous tests, he said.

First off, who knew North Korea even had trout? Not that it means much, but its kind of a neat fact to learn. Now as to how this took place is the real question but seems unlikely to have been caused by radiation.

Of course there are other factors that should be considered as the cause such as malnutrition, pollution, etc....common things that could obviously have negative effects on the local population. These shouldn't be dismissed in favor of my theory, but i find these just a little bit harder to believe as the main cause.

Finally, in this article and just about all the others ive read on this subject two things come up.

One is the lack of description involving the symptoms. Nausea, headaches, general aches/pain could be caused by anything mentioned so far.

Second is a (so far) unconfirmed report that over the years other defectors have displayed a number of symptoms of something that has yet been unidentified, but has largely been chalked up to their living conditions and not an outside factor like bioweapons.

Of course, if it was bioweapons and they had evidence there is no doubt in my mind they would NOT openly offer that fact to the media for fear of how quickly that could escalate the situation.

a reply to: JBurns

It's difficult to hear that this lunatic cares more about arming his country with nuclear weapons than feeding his citizens.

I hate to say it but the only way North Koreans, members of his military or his advisers will turn on their ruthless dictator is when extreme hardships and unfortunately deaths of immediate family members of military personnel close to Kim start occurring. China holds the key to create extreme sanctions and pressure for a coup to occur against Kim Jong-Un. His nuclear ambition is not only a threat to the U.S. but to the entire area around North Korea. If radiation is leaking, it will certainly start spreading across their borders.

a reply to: JBurns

We all have opinions on this debacle, who knows which are right or wrong, or even somewhere inbetween.

All that I am sure of is that little Kim has had a long time to prepare for an invasion or attack.

He obviously was groomed by daddy and I would imagine there are all sorts of contingency plans in place if attacked, the contingency plans are likely detrimental to the rest of the civilised world.

Whatever move we make it had better be well thought out and planned.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: JBurns

if i was the leader of north korea, i see what the united states did to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and wonder when my country is next. i'd do every thing in my power to protect my country and people. even if that means developing nuclear weapons. north korea is surrounded by nations who help keep the balance in the region. china, japan, south korea and even russia help maintain "peace" in the region. i believe kim un has spoken to the leaders of those nations. he must have made it known that the threat of an attack from the united states is a real threat. north korea isn't standing alone. i don't know what will happen if the united states enters into conflict with north korea, but the response from its neighbors won't be pleasant.

the united states needs to back off its military stance on north korea and work on creating a fiscal partnership. if the united states cares about the well being of the north korean people, then send humanitarian aid, medical help, food, clothing.

One would think their friends would be doing that all along.

It's not only them having the bomb but it's about them selling the tech and materials to whomever has the money.

a reply to: Thorneblood

Is this some ATS game? Where we batter around stories about NK and say they may not be true? Did this guy just murder his family?

This isn't an argument about whether the US has committed many crimes in many other countries but this is now an issue of nuclear war? NUCLEAR WAR which the NK claim will reach our shores and cities-so let's just have a little more word play and guesstimate whether there are atrocities in NK.

This op discussion has turned into such complete embarrassment but let's talk about Trump and what an embarrassment he is. And, he is.

a reply to: JBurns

Uh oh, what if this Ghost Disease is a precursor to a real Godzilla?

a reply to: Justso

Your entire post has left me thoroughly confused, all I pointed out was that this "Ghost Disease" may not be caused by radiation at all but by more subtle and insidious experiments with bio weaponry. In order to offer some credibility to that theory I offered evidence that its not as outlandish as one might think.

I barely even mentioned Trump at all (aside from the article recently released saying Putin wanted to bring him to the table...and we are all well aware of the possibility of Nuclear War with NK but it was never the point of the OP to begin with.