Tax cut myths debunked

a reply to: JBurns

Well, of course there are liberal lies about the tax cut. If it is good for Americans and America AND the Democrats didn't create or support it then it is bad.

However, there IS a lie detector readily available...see new record high in the stock market. Money doesn't lie.

a reply to: Metallicus

(Because corporations are excited to pass on the tax savings to their in errors instead of growth and it will certainly not be going to their workers in the middle... kind of a hint there, really...)

Fox and people here are in never never land


This tax cut will expand the deficit by 1 trillion conservatively and ultimately barley cut taxes on the MC by 1 percent!

Taxes on the rich will be cut much more

Mnuchin fibbed and said they have analyses to say it will bring great prosperity that never was done or even intended.

He uses the Trump distortion tactic and now the senate, realizing this plan will expand the deficit at least a trillion, are scrambling to cover that gap

a reply to: JBurns

Your explanations are simplistic and bogus.

Typical fox news lies and Trump like distortions.

a reply to: Allaroundyou


What public knowledge are you referring to? The Tax Policy Center? They are a Soros front entity that parrots his agenda driven talking points and specious economic analyses.

Bush's tax cuts weren't as much as this bill proposes, nor was the average American having an arbitrary tax (used as a penalty) levied against them for simply not having health insurance. Not only will we pay less taxes, but the ridiculous penalty issued by an overreaching government will also be eliminated.

Even McCain realizes the American people overwhelming want the bureaucratic tax code revised and government's impact in our lives to be reduced. Any bill that can do that is a net positive, just as this tax bill is a net positive.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Metallicus

(Because corporations are excited to pass on the tax savings to their in errors instead of growth and it will certainly not be going to their workers in the middle... kind of a hint there, really...)

Millions of American's rely on the stock market for income and to increase their wealth over time. It isn't just 'rich' people that invest in the market.

ETA: Blue-collar wages are surging...HERE.

Also note, I used a liberal source for you.

Enjoy!

This proposal is a scheme to enrich the rich and make you poorer

There are two governmental organizations that have conducted nonpartisan analyses of the anticipated effects of Republican legislation aimed at overhauling the tax system. There’s the Joint Committee on Taxation, established in 1926 with congressional oversight to prepare revenue estimates on proposals related to taxation. There’s also the Congressional Budget Office, which produces independent analysis of the budgetary effects of legislation. Recently released analyses from both groups come to the same conclusion. Over both the short- and long-term, the benefits of the Republican proposal is weighted to wealthier Americans.

SOURCE

a reply to: Willtell


I think I made it pretty clear these were not my explanations.

Do you have any actual counter-points to make to the analysis presented in the article?

Generally speaking it is more effective to use facts and logic to demonstrate your point, instead of fallible attacks and deflections.

What are the "typical Fox News lies"? What are the "Trump-like distortions"? Can you elaborate on this?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JBurns

I like these guys: www.epi.org...

They seem pretty neutral maybe slightly left in their analysis and issues they pick to focus on. But their analysis is usually really good.

Really? The EPI? Come on...



I visit their page in good faith, and the first thing I see on their homepage is a retweet of the Tax Policy Center. They are clearly just another "policy institute/law center/center for xx/observatory" farce, since they parrot (literally, a retweet) analyses by these partisan and agenda driven groups like TPC.

a reply to: Metallicus

Yes, I know. But you are missing the point. They are excited to NOT trickle down their gains to the little guy, but up to the folks who own the company. If you own a piece of it, then great, you might see a tiny piece of that pie, but will it matter when the housing market starts tanking due to lack of mortgage deductions for the average person? Home values will drop. Thanks to the GOP your health insurance is going to keep going up and up with this bill, and to claim they are being "fiscally responsible" they will cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

The trickle down ain't gonna work unless you significantly buy into the stock market and have a lot of non-home oriented assets already and how much gain does one need to make up for the rise in taxes over time?

Don't look at the current gains as being permanent- the market will start coming back down.

Good times.

a reply to: JBurns

I’ve already, days ago, posted FACTS refuting the simplistic ideas of this OP.

Overall experts have analyzed the tax cut for the MC to be only I percent overall.


Just do a small amount of research and you’ll see. I don’t have the time now to dig up my posts, maybe tomorrow.

This bill is all to make the super rich pay less. Its not even well planned


It also will at least raise the debt 1 trillion to 1.4 trillion

Tax laws are very complex therefore the simplistic items in this plan need to be analyzed completely by experts and studied. They refuse to have hearings on this plan because its really a flimsy plan not even worked out well.

The only thing that is NOT in doubt is the huge tax advantages for the super rich---

They’ve done a big specific tax break for the wealthy and they are much more muddled for those at the bottom and in the middle,” Leibenluft said.

Its all here LINK

Under existing law, a single filer can combine the $6,350 standard deduction and $4,050 personal exemption to shield $10,400 from federal income tax. Under the Republican plan, a single filer can shield $12,000, so there’s a $1,600 benefit there.

But it’s a different story for people with children.

Under existing tax law, a married couple with two children can combine the $12,700 standard deduction and $16,200 in personal and dependent exemptions to shield $28,900 from federal income tax. Under the Republican plan, that same couple would be able to shield just $24,000.

“Increasing the standard deduction and losing the personal exemption is a trade-off that might work for single filers with no kids,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. “It doesn’t work at all for a single filer with two kids. They’d be worse off.”

“The more kids you have, the worse off you are in that trade-off,” he said.

The Republican plan promises to offset some of the loss from eliminating the personal exemption for families by “significantly” increasing the existing $1,000 tax credit available for each child younger than 17 years old. But that figure still has to be determined by the White House and Congress as they work to draft legislation and then try to pass it.

The Republican tax plan also proposes a new $500 tax credit for other non-children dependents, such as elderly relatives, that also could help offset the loss of the personal exemptions.

And most importantly, the Republican tax plan has not defined the income level for new tax brackets.

Those proposed brackets include an increase in the lowest one to 12% from 10% — a bump that Trump and Republican leaders said would be offset by the larger standard deduction.

The income levels for the new 12%, 25% and 35% brackets would determine how much taxes people pay on income not shielded by the standard deduction and are key to figuring out if they would be better off under the Republican plan.

For example, a person with income of $60,000 currently pays taxes in three different brackets: 10% on the first $9,325 of taxable income; 15% on income from there to $37,950, and 25% on the rest.

It’s not known what the income levels would be for the new 12% and 25% brackets.

Gary Cohn, Trump’s top economic advisor and an architect of the plan, said Thursday that based on administration assumptions about the income levels that would be attached to the brackets, the increased standard deduction would benefit the middle class.

A typical family earning $100,000 with two children that uses the standard deduction “can expect a tax cut of about $1,000,” Cohn told reporters at a White House media briefing.

“Don’t look at any one piece. Look at the plan in its entirety,” he said. “We are going to give middle-class Americans a tax cut.”

Democrats said they haven’t seen the evidence.

“When Republicans propose increasing the standard deduction and at the same time eliminate the personal and dependent exemptions, you're going to have a lot of families, particularly the large ones — and the Republicans say that they're the champions of family values — those folks are going to have a net tax increase,” Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said Wednesday.

Experts said that until lawmakers decide on the other key tax plan details, it’s unclear if the larger standard deduction would put more money in people’s pockets.

“There will be some low- and moderate-income people who will benefit from an increase in the standard deduction even if they lose their personal exemption. There are other people making the same amount of money who will lose in that trade-off just because of the structure of their family,” Gleckman said.

The tax code is so complex, sure on its face SOME OF THE MC may get a grand a year or so savings that might come to 100 a month the first few years of this.

BUT overall in later years those same people’s taxes will end up going up

Also, in this plan many MC people with families will get the shaft since their taxes will go up

For the MC its a muddled scenario, but for the rich it’s a clear and lasting savings in the billions with the decrease in the corporate tax and elimination of the inheritance tax and other things

The rich peoples tax cuts are PERMANENT

The measly MC cuts are temporary

originally posted by: Pyle

However, survey and economic evidence demonstrates that corporate tax cuts benefit the middle class in the form of higher wages, better workplace benefits, new job opportunities and lower consumer prices.

That is some Grade A GOP propaganda talking points. Bear in mind what happened in the Bush years the last time they did this BS.

Yeah it's B S that gets swallowed each and everytime ,it never fails to fool.

a reply to: AboveBoard

but will it matter when the housing market starts tanking due to lack of mortgage deductions for the average person?

The base deductions have been doubled for the average person. No problem there.

Thanks to the GOP your health insurance is going to keep going up and up with this bill

You mean thanks to the one's that passed Obamacare to begin with. That is what started all these healthcare debacles. Put the blame where it belongs.

and to claim they are being "fiscally responsible" they will cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Social Security is going up by 2%. How is that cutting it?

a reply to: Willtell

BUT overall in later years those same people’s taxes will end up going up

So you would prefer them to go up now?

a reply to: AboveBoard

Don't look at the current gains as being permanent- the market will start coming back down.

Well of course it will as soon as we have a Liberal majority in Congress or a Democrat as President. They hate anything that allows people like us to be independent from Government.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: AboveBoard

Don't look at the current gains as being permanent- the market will start coming back down.

Well of course it will as soon as we have a Liberal majority in Congress or a Democrat as President. They hate anything that allows people like us to be independent from Government.

This just sounds silly.

I was going to brake down what I like and what I don't like about this tax bill, but then I thought, why bother?

We the people have no say so in what we are taxed. None.
The congress is doing this to us not for us.

I found it interesting that there are on one side of this thread are "newcomers" or people who are not always on the train for anything "GOP vs. DEM".

And on the other side ("This tax cut is good!") we have the usual 3 or 4 candidates: Carewemust, RazorV66, Arnie123 and Metallicus. You are loud and seemingly the only persons who WANT the tax cut. Or anything what makes Trump look shiny. Do you realize that you have about NONE backing by other people? You seem to be in your own echochamber, getting fed useless stars and think that your opinion is rich. Maybe that is not the case.