The Computer An Artificial Utility

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I have to wonder, how many have a backup plan if the rope breaks?

Normally I would say nowhere near enough to make a difference, so I'll just say that.

Computers have really just replaced what we used to do with telephones and notice boards at supermarkets, offices and colleges.

We used to have to walk down to the main hall at college or school and check the noticeboards for any new news. Sometimes, the teachers would read out the daily newsletter - "The school nurse won't be here on Thursday afternoon, so if anyone is planning on being ill, you'll have to wait until Friday morning. Skiing trips to the Cairngorns are scheduled as normal".

Teenagers used to chat on the telephone, now it's all SMS and Instant Messaging. Even Email is too slow.

As someone who once had a knackered ankle, being able to order deliveries from the supermarket, pizza delivery people and Amazon is wonderful. Everything from food to medical supplies. Back in the 1970's if you ordered anything by post, it involved sending a cheque or standing order (3 days delivery + 3 days processing), and "please wait 28 days for postage and packing". Things were far slower back then.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Want my www.? you'll have to pry my mouse from my cold dead hands.

originally posted by: ketsuko
What if you ever needed to know those things because you didn't have access to technology or the specialized networks we enjoy?

In the past that same scenario would come up, except it would take longer to access the information. Worse yet, what if you needed a document that was lost or destroyed? You simply had to do without. With computers, more information is accessible, can be accessed faster, and is more resilient against destruction.

What if my car breaks down in the middle of nowhere? If I have a cell phone signal I can call for help, furthermore I can probably access repair guides. It's a strictly better outcome than the alternative (which is equal to not having a cell signal) where I'm simply stranded unless I already know the necessary repair information.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

Artificial.

Our tools have gotten shinier and sharper. Our abacuses now run on
lithium batteries.

We have not evolved.

originally posted by: waftist
I have considered this, particularly in the event of an EMP and I have began printing pdfs with apocalyptic scenario survival info such as medicinal(diagnosis, treatment and also medicinal plants info), structure building, food (plant ID)sources, trapping, energy sources/techniques, cleaning water, clothing etc..

Most people who have learned a thing or two know the theory behind how that thing works, not just how to push a button on a machine and have it done.

People would be fine without computers. Life would get a bit worse, but the world would continue. That said... why hope for a worse world when we can have a better one?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

Artificial.

Our tools have gotten shinier and sharper. Our abacuses now run on
lithium batteries.

We have not evolved.

Our creation and use of technology has.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Isn't that dangerous to be dependent on something so tenuous?

Not really. Even if/when a massive EMP comes and knocks out all of our electronics, we will have benefits from a century or more of their use in order to discover new things, and have gotten fringe benefits like being more comfortable in the meantime.

Isn't that better than the alternative of having had more suffering, less progress, and way more death in that same time frame?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
If I was on a tightrope, I'd always have a backup in case I fell or the rope broke.

I have to wonder, how many have a backup plan if the rope breaks?

I've said this many times before. If we wind up in a Mad Max world, I'll gladly kill myself. Zero hesitation. I don't want to live in that type of world.

It's not that I would be unable to make a living, I would make a great banker, lawyer, or legislator. It's that I simply don't want to live in that type of world.

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

Artificial.

Our tools have gotten shinier and sharper. Our abacuses now run on
lithium batteries.

We have not evolved.

Our creation and use of technology has.

We're tool making monkeys.

Nothing has changed except the shape of the tools.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

Artificial.

Our tools have gotten shinier and sharper. Our abacuses now run on
lithium batteries.

We have not evolved.

Our creation and use of technology has.

We're tool making monkeys.

Nothing has changed except the shape of the tools.

So?

That's why we better tools.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Artificial evolution is still evolution.

originally posted by: Liquesence

So?

That's why we better tools.

But we're still the same monkeys as we were 50,000 years ago!

We've just had more time, (trial and error) to make our tools.

I don't see any step in evolution.

a reply to: DBCowboy

There must be some way to apply the infinite monkey theorem to this. Could infinite monkey's write the complete works of Shakespeare without that typewriter?

The evolution is in our ability to create tools the monkeys would need. Not all forms of evolution are biological in nature.

Is a monkey that learns to get grubs out of bark with a stick as a tool, equally evolved when compared to a monkey that can't? I'd say no since they can't pass on that knowledge to the next generation.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: DBCowboy

There must be some way to apply the infinite monkey theorem to this. Could infinite monkey's write the complete works of Shakespeare without that typewriter?

The evolution is in our ability to create tools the monkeys would need. Not all forms of evolution are biological in nature.

Is a monkey that learns to get grubs out of bark with stick as a tool equally evolved when compared to a monkey that can't? I'd say no since they can't pass on that knowledge to the next generation.

We already have a history of making tools.

Should we say we're evolved because the tools are different?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Liquesence

So?

That's why we better tools.

But we're still the same monkeys as we were 50,000 years ago!

We've just had more time, (trial and error) to make our tools.

I don't see any step in evolution.

Our species has not evolved per se (biologically). Our ability to create, learn, improve, and adapt to technology has.

Societal evolution.

Thanks to youtube, I now know how to cat.

I've evolved from a slobbering fool to a sophisticated feline.




Thanks interwebz.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: DBCowboy

There must be some way to apply the infinite monkey theorem to this. Could infinite monkey's write the complete works of Shakespeare without that typewriter?

The evolution is in our ability to create tools the monkeys would need. Not all forms of evolution are biological in nature.

Is a monkey that learns to get grubs out of bark with stick as a tool equally evolved when compared to a monkey that can't? I'd say no since they can't pass on that knowledge to the next generation.

We already have a history of making tools.

Should we say we're evolved because the tools are different?

Yes. Each generation adds to our evolution by passing on the knowledge of how to build better tools. Our minds are our evolutionary advantage and the tools we create.

DB Cowboy: Our tools have gotten better, we haven't evolved.

Aazadan: Our immune systems would disagree. Say hello to vaccinations.

Our tools have evolved over the last 5,000 to 10,000 years. Prior to that it was pretty much a Stone Age existence. Absent severe environmental pressures that's not enough time to evolve much of anything. For example, it takes more than 20,000 years for our skin to lighten from dark to light if we migrate from Africa to Scotland. So the time frame here is insufficient. About all we've got to show for a million years of evolution are some minor differences. Africans are taller and have shorter nasal passages to dissipate the heat. Northerners are shorter with longer nasal passages to conserve the heat. And we can all interbreed, even with Neanderthals, so we haven't even branched out into differing species. Further, vaccinations allow people to live who would otherwise have been culled due to natural selection. It actually slows evolution down. With travel and communications as fast as they are today, it will be unlikely that we differentiate much because there will be no more isolated enclaves. Two centuries ago there were entire islands where people all had six fingers. That's pretty much gone today because the trait has been bred out. Same with redheads. They are on the way out (so enjoy them while you can.) We may become more gracile because on the whole life is not as hard as it used to be, but it's going to take millions of years to get evolved much at all.