Charles Manson - morally/ethically wrong?

I have seen no posts so far, maybe I missed them. However, I cant help but feel Manson was made an example off at his cost.

They never had evidence suggesting that he TOLD these people to murder these people apart from other peoples word against his - Hersey?

He never actually murdered anyone himself, even if he did tell the others to.

if he DID tell them to do it, where his right of freedom of speech, isn't the saying something like "I don't like what you say, but i'll protect your right to say it"? so if he said it they didn't have to act on it. The whole drive there they had ample time to say no way this is insane, and turn around, ample time to drive to the police, ample time to do ANYTHING but murder.

So CM dies in prison, although in my opinion, he was railroaded by the system. Made an example off, and lost living the rest of his life after serving a lesser sentence, that should have been justified.

just my opinion

Good riddance, discussing him just empowers his memory. I will not.

Why would they go to the police? I thought you were talking about freedom of speech.a reply to: Ghostsinthefog

a reply to: Ghostsinthefog
They do suspect he had killed some people out at the farm. I don't think he was convicted of those. He was a charismatic fella. He was seen hanging around with brian wilson and jack Nicholson and that crowd, which makes me wonder if he knew roman polanski at all. Manson was recording songs and was trying to land a recording deal. I have heard theories that these people snubbed him, and he sent the girls to kill a different person ( can't remember who off the top of my head ) and sharon tate and co. Were there instead, in a house that Roman had recently bought from the intended victim.

Other theories have suggested that roman had sharon killed and blamed it on manson. But i don't think that fits what we know about the girls and the guy that did the deed.

After much research into this, many years ago, i came to the conclusion that the official story was pretty accurate. Or at least that he was culpable for what these people were doing. There were other crimes too

I'm happy to say good riddance. I hope they learned a lot from him.

a reply to: Ghostsinthefog

It sounds like you may have been reading some of the propaganda from Star and others in the pro-Manson cult.

He committed murder by proxy which is the same as murder. Anytime a person pays or causes another to commit a murder, they share the same guilt and suffer the same punishment. It's like a crime family boss ordering hits.

Have you read Helter Skelter and perhaps more accurate material from the time when this happened. You might want to stay away from the propaganda on the Internet.

The reason he was never paroled is that he was dangerous psychopath which is a good thing.

The talk should be about the victims, not Manson. Pity their families and their loss, not Manson. There is nothing that can be done with someone like him beyond keeping him locked away, which is thankfully what happened.

Charles Manson was convicted on seven counts of first-degree murder for his role in the killings. This is despite the fact that he never murdered anyone himself during the family's killing spree. Instead, he ordered his followers to murder for him. This is known as murder by proxy.Mar 24, 2014
If Not a Serial Killer, Then What Is Charles Manson? | Psychology ...
www.psychologytoday.com... › blog

I just pulled that off google search, I've always wondered how someone could be locked up forever without actually killing anyone.
Murder by proxy .......🤔 , even considered a serial killer by proxy, thats kind of weird.....

Never really understood the hooplah about him for a few reasons..

#1..

The Manson family didnt even kill that many people. What was it? 7 people over 2 days? Thats chump change compared to some of those who killed for decades.

#2...

Charles Manson never even killed anyone. He told others to do it, and wasnt even present during the murders. Did he even have it in him to kill? Was he even capable of doing it himself? Ordering a murder is one thing.. performing one is a whole different animal.

Overrated.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
Charles Manson never even killed anyone. He told others to do it, and wasnt even present during the murders. Did he even have it in him to kill? Was he even capable of doing it himself? Ordering a murder is one thing.. performing one is a whole different animal.

Overrated.

Sort of like Hitler, then.

I keep thinking of WWII and the officers who were executed, or Hitler even, I'm sure he would of been executed..many may have not actually killed, but only ordered the act's. I know it was wartime and they were war crimes. Are they not responsible? I tend to think of Manson in the same regard, although on a much smaller scale.

Quotes..

Murder is only in your realty in mine it is a holy war...

I make the money, control the nickles, deal the cards...

People can't handle it if you're not willing to condemn the guy. ATS seems to be getting a lot more intolerant about people having their own opinions lately. Folks are real quick to jump on you for not following the expected heard mentality. It's pathetic.

I don't know what happened with Charles Manson. Maybe he did tell his friends to kill. There's zero proof that he did though. That used to mean something, doesn't any more though.

Is it possible Helter Skelter was written to solidify a narrative? Yes, it is possible. Maybe not probable to some but it is possible, especially if he was legitimately innocent. Especially if his arrest was part of an operation to end the counterculture of the time.

Nixon came out before the trial was over and condemned him as guilty (and Nixon's word was definitely trustworthy). Charlie was turned into a media circus and have we learned anything in recent years about those?

But maybe it's not my place to judge him without all the facts. I wasn't on the jury.

Doesn't matter though... He's dead now and facing whatever comes after this wild ride is over.

Star was after the money, fame and celebrity. Manson just happened to be the ticket that worked for her (for a while). I mentioned a thread I'd started working up about Manson recently. I'm not going to finalize it now that he's passed, just sort of feels wrong right now. But it was all about ATWA(R). How it started, what it became with Star and Gray Wolf at the helm and where it is now that they're not running things.

Most people don't know ATWA was responsible for one of the first environmentalist websites on the entire internet, the first if claims I've read about it are true...

I'll not praise the guy and please, nobody think that I am. But I'll not condemn him either. Like I said, that's not my place.

RIP

originally posted by: audubon

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
Charles Manson never even killed anyone. He told others to do it, and wasnt even present during the murders. Did he even have it in him to kill? Was he even capable of doing it himself? Ordering a murder is one thing.. performing one is a whole different animal.

Overrated.

Sort of like Hitler, then.

Or Obama...

a reply to: Ghostsinthefog

Hey Ghostsinthefog: I'm sorry but I had to stop at just because he told them to do it, and that was his right in freedom of speech, the didn't have to.

There's also something about inciting hatred and violence that harms others. It's all about standing back and talking or whatever, but making sure others act on your desire to harm others. Yes, this alone is prosecutable.
Sincerely,
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

He took them all out afterwards too. When your mates come home from a murder spree, you're supposed to call the police.

Charlie took them for a drive and ended up slicing a guy's face off with his sword. Basically torture. The 'family' then murdered the guy.

Nice to see ya

a reply to: Kandinsky

You,too. Been a while, Kandinsky.
To me there is no defense for this sludge of a human being. He disrespects and dishonors what our humanity should stand for. End of comment.

But always good to see old friends, even if it takes such horrific topics to bring us back together.

I still read. I just comment little. This was deserving, imho, of a comment.
tet

a reply to: Noncents

I have 0 problem with Ghost having his opinion, I just expressed mine..that's what it's supposed to be all about here.

a reply to: vonclod
It's all good. My quip wasn't aimed at you. More at what I believe is a growing majority of ATS these days.

a reply to: Noncents

I hear ya man, it can be pretty divisional at times, the politics have changed it to some degree, I'm sure I can be guilty of it sometimes.

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog

He never actually murdered anyone himself, even if he did tell the others to.

if he DID tell them to do it, where his right of freedom of speech, isn't the saying something like "I don't like what you say, but i'll protect your right to say it"? so if he said it they didn't have to act on it...

Freedom of speech does not cover incitement of actions which would harm others as per Schneck vs United States 249 U.S. 47 (1919).