Time To Throw The Crap Out of Religions

Originally posted by Netchicken
Your definition of "crap" is just the stuff you don't like.
Why should anyone listen to you?
You have your own biasnesses, prejudices, and blindness, as seen in your thread above. You are just replacing crap you hate with crap you LIKE.

maybe developing some maturity in understanding the issues and the situations would serve to remove the crap you so hate. Other than that, just block your ears.
[edit on 12-2-2005 by Netchicken]

What I don't like=preaching the hatred of other people. You got a problem with that?
You want me to be all PC and respect aspects of religion that oppress, incite to war, and hurt other people?
You think on that PC throne you're sitting on, you're doing any better than I am?
Yes, I'm replacing crap I hate with "crap" I like--
I hate the aspects of religions that incite people to violence & oppression.
I hate those things and I'm brave enough to have an opinion and say it--
Your post doesn't express maturity, "Net Chicken" -- it expresses something else.
And doesn't blocking my ears prevent me from denying ignorance?
Does maturity = sticking your head in the sand?

I find that you are very in tune with things, I believe that religion has no place in the truth sceme of things, when it comes down to judgement day nothing matters but your own actions and faith, you will not be judged as a congregation , but as a single person. I think if we where going to be judged as a congregation as a whole then noone is going to be rewarded because the congregation will always have those who are new to faith , those who play the role of the church to get gains, and those who are true in the path of God's will , already if judged by God based on congragational judgement we are two thirds of the way to damnation.

Originally posted by defcon5
Yeah I say we start by throwing out all those that cannot accept that the Christian Religion is not politically correct, and that it will NEVER accept homosexuality as anything less then a sin nor matter how much you wine about it and try and rule lawyer around the wording….

I am not a homophobe, I could really care less if someone is gay, but I will never accept that the word says anything less then it’s a sin.I say they go their way and I go mine, if someone askes me, then I tell them the truth, if they dont like the answer then thay are free to do what they wish, but don't pick on me because you didn't get the answer you wanted.

If you don’t like the rules then take it up with the boss, not his messengers…



Ps Cassy I suggest you go re-research the writing of the King James Version of the bible, and why it is the most accepted by all Christian Religions, before picking on all versions of the Bible.

[edit on 2/12/2005 by defcon5]

If it's ok for you to see homosexuality as a sin, it's ok for me to say that such a belief is CRAP.
I'm ok, you're ok, isn't that nice?
You tell me that homosexuality is a sin,
I tell you such a belief is CRAP--
And nobody gets hurt.
Meanwhile, in the real world, plenty of people get hurt as the result of your "Word". Oh, well.

I was going to provide a gigantic list of links refuting the "purity" of all Bibles, King James or otherwise--but that's been done to death on ATS and, if you were ever so inclined (which I don't think you truly are) you can look up the threads, many of which are active, and do some reading. Personally I don't really care if you believe the Bible or Moby Dick is the exact Holy Writ--as long as such beliefs don't leak into laws by the goverment that effect me, or erupt in lunatics handing me "hate literature' on street corners.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Cassie Clay]

Originally posted by Truth


The truth is that Jesus never said judge others or condemn to hell. he said teach souls about the kingdom of heaven and of Jesus Christ, and if they refuse to listen leave
their presence. He also said pray for those who persecute you and hate you. Also he said by how much you judge others you yourself will be judged.


Anybody, including anybody claiming to be christian who judges on their own account is not living by Jesus own words.


They give us a bad name.

peace.

That's the conception of Jesus I believe in--the One who loves everyone.
The message of love has to be promoted, and the hate stuff has to go.
How many people who could have found solace in Jesus Christ have been driven out of the church & became athiests because of messages of hate & prejudice they heard from so-called representatives of their faith?
When the official Church Of Satan Website preaches less hate (um, hardly any hate actually) than many Christian sites--there needs to be a reexamination of things.

Originally posted by Kinja
If you do not like the current religions.. go make your own. You can call it "Church of the pretend god" or something similar, you can make your own bible... have it say whatever you want. You can make it have your own personal 10 or 5 or 20 commandments... but you cannot rewrite the bible of an existing religion, no matter how much it bothers you. Get over it.

YAY!

Happy yet?

A religion based on universal equality of all humankind, promoting love, charity, creativity, and the pursuit of freedom & knowledge is faaaaar from a "Church of the Pretend God."

To me, a "pretend God" is one who would order people to sacrifice & kill other people and would condemn non-believers who had otherwise lived "moral lives" to the fires of unending torment. Actually, such a God would be worse than a pretend God, it would be a freakin' nightmare, as if Satan was God.

Kinja is right.
Changing the rules means you are making your own God. The God of the bible, YHWH, is known by the Bible, reject that and you are out in fiction land.

It's like having a game of Tennis, and saying your can't use tennis rackets, but must use bats, and play it with a small plastic hollow ball, on a table top. Its not tennis any more, its something different.

So "Church of the pretend God" is as good a label as anything else.

I am sorry that you didn't like my post, however sometimes its easier to call a spade a spade, to use the old chestnut. Surely its better to understand the heart of the religion than to focus on the loons and twisted theology that are around the fringes.

I am not defending homophobia, or people who hate, but they are only a few who's expressions of their beliefs are twisted by their personalities, misguided teaching, or circumstances.

What you say below, shows that your hate comes from only a partial understanding of Christianity and not knowing the core of it. Looking from the outside makes mis-constructions and mis-assumptions easier.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

A religion based on universal equality of all humankind, promoting love, charity, creativity, and the pursuit of freedom & knowledge is faaaaar from a "Church of the Pretend God."

To me, a "pretend God" is one who would order people to sacrifice & kill other people and would condemn non-believers who had otherwise lived "moral lives" to the fires of unending torment. Actually, such a God would be worse than a pretend God, it would be a freakin' nightmare, as if Satan was God.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Netchicken]

making your own rules and your own God may seem rediculus to us but is there actually a person out there that doesnt wonder what if , what if I have been wrong, what if my way is better, how will they know if they dont get all the thoughts out there.

I would like to start out by saying that I am a Wiccan. It will be fruitless to try to debate with me based on statements that rely on the truthfullness of the Bible because the Bible says it's true. This would be similar to me saying, "I am God and it's true because I am God and I say it's true." It is nothing more than a rediculus and worthless claim. So try and debate me on provable terms.

With that said.....
I DO find some parts of the Bible helpful to life on Earth but I also find that some parts incite hatered and voilence. I believe that in its purest form the Bible was a wonderous book. However, it is also known that the Bible is not a complete work. It has been changed many times through out history as have many other texts.

I go by the saying, "An it harms none, do as ye will." I see nothing wrong with a person believing in Christianity, Budhism, Taoism, or any other belief that is not my own. I think it is important to choose a faith that you can best relate to. (See Matthew 8:10-12)

I do have a HUGE problem with people using their religion to put others down and degrade them by telling them that they will burn in Hell, or that they are sinful in believing in anything other than X religion.

I view the Diety as a diamond. The Christians see one face of it. The Buddhists see another. The Jews see another and so on. When you put them all together and remove the parts that are purely man-inspired (aka: CRAP) then you get a more complete view of the truth.

Originally posted by daniel191159
I would like to start out by saying that I am a Wiccan. It will be fruitless to try to debate with me based on statements that rely on the truthfullness of the Bible because the Bible says it's true. This would be similar to me saying, "I am God and it's true because I am God and I say it's true." It is nothing more than a rediculus and worthless claim. So try and debate me on provable terms.

With that said.....
I DO find some parts of the Bible helpful to life on Earth but I also find that some parts incite hatered and voilence. I believe that in its purest form the Bible was a wonderous book. However, it is also known that the Bible is not a complete work. It has been changed many times through out history as have many other texts.

I do have a HUGE problem with people using their religion to put others down and degrade them by telling them that they will burn in Hell, or that they are sinful in believing in anything other than X religion.

I view the Diety as a diamond. The Christians see one face of it. The Buddhists see another. The Jews see another and so on. When you put them all together and remove the parts that are purely man-inspired (aka: CRAP) then you get a more complete view of the truth.

Wow! Nice job dude hehehehe
You explain this very well!!!!!!!!
Really, this is clear and simple!
Thanks, ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I do have a HUGE problem with people using their religion to put others down and degrade them by telling them that they will burn in Hell

People ALWAYS have a problem with being told they are doing wrong, and being told they will be punished for it. This is not simply a biblical thing. Go anywhere on earth and you will find that attitude.

So when you say that you have a problem with being told that you will goto hell because you will not repent of you sins, do you expect anyone to be surprised?
Its a very human thing to not want to own up to ones mistakes.
Just know that God is willing when you are ready.

Honestly you do need a new religion or god. The one that most of you cherish has failed miserably. It is not just organized religion but people who follow a belief in a god also who do nothing but put others down and hate. You call it debate or looking for the truth, we see it as hate. You can go back and look thorugh the different threads and see what I'm talking about. It's nothing but name calling and bickering. How many must die for you to prove that your god is the real god? Nothing but murderous acts of hate and vengance.

Obviously I don't follow a religion nor do I believe in god and you know what? I have love. I know how to treat people with respect and kindness no matter their lifestyle or race. It's because I don't have what you believe in to tell me not to. I have much less hate than any of you. And no I don't hate you.

Originally posted by I See You
Honestly you do need a new religion or god. The one that most of you cherish has failed miserably. It is not just organized religion but people who follow a belief in a god also who do nothing but put others down and hate. You call it debate or looking for the truth, we see it as hate. You can go back and look thorugh the different threads and see what I'm talking about. It's nothing but name calling and bickering. How many must die for you to prove that your god is the real god? Nothing but murderous acts of hate and vengance.

Obviously I don't follow a religion nor do I believe in god and you know what? I have love. I know how to treat people with respect and kindness no matter their lifestyle or race. It's because I don't have what you believe in to tell me not to. I have much less hate than any of you. And no I don't hate you.

If you had love or respect, then you wouldnt have insulted the people you were talking to in the above quote the way you did.
You find it insulting if you are told that you can have eternal life if you turn to Jesus.
You find it insulting that the opposite destination is hell.
You think that is hate.
I cant help ya there. The problem is within YOU. Not me. My job is to tell you but once. After that, its on you.

Now we can walk away from each other unless you want to learn about Jesus.

Originally posted by jake1997
People ALWAYS have a problem with being told they are doing wrong, and being told they will be punished for it. This is not simply a biblical thing. Go anywhere on earth and you will find that attitude.

So when you say that you have a problem with being told that you will goto hell because you will not repent of you sins, do you expect anyone to be surprised?

First of all, I don't want it to seem as if I am picking on Jake1997 personally, I am just quoting him here because he has made a post that embodies perfectly a trend that I have noticed and want to discuss.

There are many other sacred texts in the world. The Christian Bible is not the only one. Many of us have been told we are going to burn in hell because the Christian Bible says we are. What about all those other books?

There are other people who are just as devoted to their sacred text as Christians are to theirs.

What would you have to say if I told you that you are doomed to eternal suffering because you haven't not heeded the warnings of Sidhartha? The Bagivad Gita says so. It says so, therefore it must be true. Until you begin to live your life as Sidhartha says you should you continue to be doomed. He sacrificed so much and suffered so much in order to become enlightened so he could pass this knowledge on to you, and yet you continue to ignore it.

See what I am saying here? It wouldn't help to give this knowledge to Christians because they are already devoted to their own paths. Like wise, it does little good for Christians to tell us we are going to hell. We already have spiritual paths to which we are devoted.

Why can't we simply acknowledge this and go on with our lives. Trying to change each other is simply not going to work most of the time. It only serves to frustrate those around us.

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by I See You
Honestly you do need a new religion or god. The one that most of you cherish has failed miserably. It is not just organized religion but people who follow a belief in a god also who do nothing but put others down and hate. You call it debate or looking for the truth, we see it as hate. You can go back and look thorugh the different threads and see what I'm talking about. It's nothing but name calling and bickering. How many must die for you to prove that your god is the real god? Nothing but murderous acts of hate and vengance.

Obviously I don't follow a religion nor do I believe in god and you know what? I have love. I know how to treat people with respect and kindness no matter their lifestyle or race. It's because I don't have what you believe in to tell me not to. I have much less hate than any of you. And no I don't hate you.

If you had love or respect, then you wouldnt have insulted the people you were talking to in the above quote the way you did.
You find it insulting if you are told that you can have eternal life if you turn to Jesus.
You find it insulting that the opposite destination is hell.
You think that is hate.
I cant help ya there. The problem is within YOU. Not me. My job is to tell you but once. After that, its on you.

Now we can walk away from each other unless you want to learn about Jesus.

You are wrong. I'm not insulted by anything you say. It is all meaningless. Your job actually is to mind your own business. It is people like you that I speak of. And as far as learning about jesus, I've learned as much as I'd like to know and seen for that matter and it's not pretty.

jake don't try and argue with anybody. this is what it comes down to.


They claim to be good and loving without Jesus who is God like they don't need him.


They don't want him. they don't want to bow down, or serve, or love God.


How can you tell someone who loves and is good, that this jesus preached this message and not only that but created my
bones and flesh.


if you were loving wouldnt you flock to Jesus?



But they don't flock, because they don't want God or to serve, but see themselves as their own god, doing what they want, not giving God many thoughts.




true love is directing literal souls to Jesus and telling people about him. I care too, I love too, but I also recognize God is the one who
gave you your heart. we can do nothing without him/




Alot of people just don't want to bow down so to say.


peace.

What you said is not true. Can I ask if you love homosexual people? Do you love people who go against your religion or god? Do you love abortionists? If you were given all this love by your god then why is it that you hate so much? Homosexuals do not bother me in the least as long as they mind their business. I don't think abortionists should die because of what they did. They for the most part good people who made a choice. You can't say that you are alll loving because god gave this to you when you assume so much hate for people. I'm not fake.


What I do is not because of a god. I don't serve a god because there is not one as far as I'm concerned. You cannot make me believe just as I cannot make you.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by I See You]

In the thread authors original piece one of the most universal of truths was left out. Its omission is what gives rise to the orginal pieces error. Many of the the opposing posters have been hinting either directly or indirectly at this universal truth. It is the universal truth that tends to cause the most division in its application but this makes it no less universal or true. This universal value/truth is Justice. Justice is agreed to be a universal, necessary, and good value. Yet justice when misapplies is seen as intollerance, bigotry, and hatred. It is the misapplication of justice that leads to most of the "crap" that suffers so much angst on this thread.

That being said let me state that justice is essential for any human society. What deserves justice is determined by the culture of the society. How justice is applied is also culturally applied but its principle is present in all human society. A teaching about justice is essential to any complete religious system. Hence whenever you are dealing with a religion that believes in an omnipotent God, that God will have as part of his character perfect justice. It is this perfect justice that causes there to be an opposing "hell" for every "heaven" in God centered religions. You can no more remove a penalty for wrong than you can a benefit for being good. The conclusion is thus obvious that any faithful adherent to a God centered religion will believe that those who rebel from God will be punished to fufill the requirements of justice. You cannot remove this from God centered religion without invalidating the religion.

I agree that intollerance and hatred need to be confronted in all religions. We must in doing so, however, not attempt to remove the righteous requirement of justice from a religious system let we be found intollerant of a valid religious belief concerning divine justice.

Originally posted by Johannmon
The conclusion is thus obvious that any faithful adherent to a God centered religion will believe that those who rebel from God will be punished to fufill the requirements of justice. You cannot remove this from God centered religion without invalidating the religion.

I agree that intollerance and hatred need to be confronted in all religions. We must in doing so, however, not attempt to remove the righteous requirement of justice from a religious system let we be found intollerant of a valid religious belief concerning divine justice.

If a religion preaches that in order for their idea of "divine justice" to be satisfied, the "infidels" needed to be killed, or the woman stoned to death, or the homosexuals driven out of town & persecuted -- why should I respect that religion or be tolerant of it? And if those religions can only remain intact if all their hatreds are kept intact--in the name of "divine justice"--well, bring on liberal humanism, bring on new religions, bring on something to stop the insanity.

Originally posted by I See You
What you said is not true. Can I ask if you love homosexual people? Do you love people who go against your religion or god? Do you love abortionists? If you were given all this love by your god then why is it that you hate so much? Homosexuals do not bother me in the least as long as they mind their business. I don't think abortionists should die because of what they did. They for the most part good people who made a choice. You can't say that you are alll loving because god gave this to you when you assume so much hate for people. I'm not fake.


What I do is not because of a god. I don't serve a god because there is not one as far as I'm concerned. You cannot make me believe just as I cannot make you.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by I See You]

Homosexuals are ok as long as they "mind their own business", eh? What, pray tell, do you mean by THAT?

I think Christians are ok as long as they "mind their own business" -- don't preach to me, don't "pray" for me to "see the light" (which, being a spiritual person, I feel is tantamount to spiritual terrorism), and stop influencing politicians and the FCC to create laws and regulations that are clearly faith-based and biased towards a Christian idea of morality.

And if I said that racism or Nazism was a crappy mindset, that we needed to remove racism & Nazism from society, would that make me a "hater?" If so...GOOD!

Originally posted by Truth

if you were loving wouldnt you flock to Jesus?

If you're Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. the answer would be no.
According to your religion, what happens to the followers of those religions after they die?
I believe it involves pitchforks and the smell of burning flesh.
And I find such a view offensive. I guess I'm simply...intolerant.