Where to find the truth

christ is not returning

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
"after christ returns"? i really hope your joking. when is he returning? with 2pac and biggie? john lennon? are you all going to hold hands and walk through the golden gates?

or let me guess.. jesus is going to invite you into his vacuum powered hyper drive and zoom you around at hundreds of times the speed of light to explore the universe? we dont need to explore the universe. just understand and cultivate our miniscule section of it. so i really hope you were just bieng sarcastic. if so, then i apologize for making you look like an idiot. if not then heres a free lesson in reality for you.

one more thing to think about for the idiots. where there is water, there is life. even on other planets. hell there are organisms that can live feet away from magma. so its almost impossible to think that earth is the only planet in the universe with life. and bieng that "god" created everything... why did he put life on other planets so very very far away. we cannot breathe in space. gravity certainly prevents us from making it very far on our own.. so i ask you this..
why did "god" create life on other planets so far away that they could have no bearing on life as we know it? in other words.. why would god put organisms on far away planets, if humans were never really meant to reach them? they have no effect on our existence. but yet they exist. something to think about you retarded brainwashed losers.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by steplogic]

Science tells me God must exist.
My mind tells me I will never understand God.
My Heart tells me I am Not meant to.
Vittoria Vetta

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
It seems to me then that you believe that human nature should be suppressed.

Even as a Christian for a while I believed this was true until a few months ago. Your nature can be changed to a large extent. The desire to do evil fades because of the love to do good for God is greater. "You are what you repeatedly do. Excellence therefore, is not an act but a habit" - Aristotle. This ties in nicely with what the Bible says about knowing a tree by it's fruit.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
If God loves us why should we have to conceal our true nature, which after all, he did apparently create in his infinite wisdom?

He doesn't want us to conceal our true nature, he wants our nature to become true. We, by our choice, tainted that nature.


[edit on 16-2-2005 by saint4God]

"Tainted" Human nature as you see it is the original state of the human condition. We will lie, cheat, steal and murder to get ahead. We see this competitive nature and selfishness in animals, who have no capacity for intelligent thought and whose actions are dictated entirely by natural instinct.

The same is the case in humans, and if you believe in God how can you believe he would create us in one way with the intention that we should change his creation?

Everything you and I find despicable about the human race is rooted in our natural disposition. This is our true nature, not any other state which we force upon ourselves consciously.

If you believe God created us in his own image, that makes God a lying, cheating, murdering, selfish opportunist. Doesn't sound much like a benevolent supreme being to me.

Originally posted by steplogic
why did "god" create life on other planets so far away that they could have no bearing on life as we know it? in other words.. why would god put organisms on far away planets, if humans were never really meant to reach them?

Good questions, and the answers are...

Originally posted by steplogic
they have no effect on our existence. but yet they exist. something to think about you retarded brainwashed losers.

Just for that, I'm not going to answer your questions

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
"Tainted" Human nature as you see it is the original state of the human condition. We will lie, cheat, steal and murder to get ahead. We see this competitive nature and selfishness in animals, who have no capacity for intelligent thought and whose actions are dictated entirely by natural instinct.

The same is the case in humans, and if you believe in God how can you believe he would create us in one way with the intention that we should change his creation?

God created the opportunity. We were given the choice to maintain the environment or to change it. Our choice was to change it, to feel what is evil and have the desire to pursue it.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
Everything you and I find despicable about the human race is rooted in our natural disposition. This is our true nature, not any other state which we force upon ourselves consciously.

You can change to where being and doing good comes naturally, not forceably. We have the opportunity to reverse the problem instead of crutching upon bad habits. This is growth.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
If you believe God created us in his own image, that makes God a lying, cheating, murdering, selfish opportunist. Doesn't sound much like a benevolent supreme being to me.

Image, not clone. We at one time reflected the good qualities of God, but we are not God. We drifted away from God, the benevolent supreme being, yet we resist when we have an opportunity to explore more about Him. Why? Because we don't want to give up the bad things that make us feel 'oh so good'. The problem with the bad things that feel 'good' is they quickly turn to dust and in comes consequences, regret, pain, bitterness, and the desire for the next bad thing to make us feel 'good'. We need that next hit. This addiction can be overcome.


[edit on 17-2-2005 by saint4God]

Thanks saint4god,

Interesting answers, you've helped me gain a better insight into the way Christians think. Although I might not agree with these beliefs I can see that they help you to lead a better life.

It's my belief that humans are corrupt by nature, but I agree that it is alterable with effort.

Glad to help Cidergood, it helped challenge my understanding too. The link on my signature line as some additional material if you're looking for more questions or answers. I'd be interested in hearing about your history, challenging situations, and victories as well if you ever want to U2U. I'm willing to listen, take or give advice.

why would he/she visit the site in your sig? noone wants to be brainwashed man. just because you have been, doesnt mean you have to force it on other people. thats one of the main problems with christians. they have no sense of self worth, so they rely on faith to instill it in them. they force others into thier way of thinking so they can subdue the helpless feeling which made them become christians in the first place. saint4god, you need to do some serious soul searching if you truly believe in god. a lot more than you think you might have already done. you probably think jesus rolled that big stone out of the way dont you? you think he floated up into the sky as well correct? well think about it.. when is the last time someone moved a rock that size after they were dead? come to think of it.. when has a dead person really ever done anything? and by the way, your answers arent answers. they are rhetoric. christian propaganda meant to twist reality. think! and stop letting people who lived a long time ago do it for you!

Originally posted by steplogic
why would he/she visit the site in your sig? noone wants to be brainwashed man. just because you have been, doesnt mean you have to force it on other people. thats one of the main problems with christians. they have no sense of self worth, so they rely on faith to instill it in them. they force others into thier way of thinking so they can subdue the helpless feeling which made them become christians in the first place. saint4god, you need to do some serious soul searching if you truly believe in god. a lot more than you think you might have already done. you probably think jesus rolled that big stone out of the way dont you? you think he floated up into the sky as well correct? well think about it.. when is the last time someone moved a rock that size after they were dead? come to think of it.. when has a dead person really ever done anything? and by the way, your answers arent answers. they are rhetoric. christian propaganda meant to twist reality. think! and stop letting people who lived a long time ago do it for you!

Sounds like you have issues but not with me. I'm not forcing anyone to believe anything. If you're angry with Jesus and God, take it up with them. Otherwise, I'll help you out if ever you're looking for it.

the only issues i have are with people with "faith". i used to attend church regularly. i felt like everyone was just trying to fit in. i felt like people were lying. true christianity is just an emotional state one goes through. without sounding like an a**hole, i really do think something is mentally deficient in a believer. i truly feel that they are lacking something emotionally that religion creates for them. and THATS FINE WITH ME. but what i dont like is when they force it on others. its not ok by any means. if i believed that theres was some butterfly god, you would look at me like i was crazy. well, i dont believe there is a god, so pardon me for thinking YOU are crazy.

i definatley dont need to bow my head and talk to myself like some person at an insane asylum, and frankly i dont need to explain myself to you because you arent going to change my mind. if you believe anything, believe that.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by steplogic]

Well all I know is im going to hell that girl i poked in the highschool bathroom the candy bar I stole when i was 12 I hate my ******** neighbors i shoot guns drive fast cars drink smoked a joint (or two :lol and I love scaring bible beaters and jehova witnesses

Originally posted by greenmansmind
just a little while ago i became fuxin pissd 2
i dont do that..i dont know how to get mad..
thou after reading so many topics and seeing all the waring and then thinking how far man goes back..long before jesus long before europe..and everything else...and seeing everybody demeaning their neighbor and holy men fighting and evrything and wished for a tsunami 300ft.hight to come crashing upon the lands and for mountains to fall and such..man has been here for a long time..man will exist..i just wish we could start off with a few..and even if we fade the earth will still be here and thats all that matters to me..i'd rather see all men die and the earth remain to clear its taint
it would probably take longer than 200000yrs with all the plastic we have become..
the world and its people are so plastic...i swear so many on here were poured from a plastic mold...aaaaaah that felt gooood

Can we please get a translation?

Matt 25:41 "Then he will say to those on the left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me."


Interesting what Jesus states becomes the Cause for their eternal damnation.....Note that he does not state the damned failed to convert their nieghbors, nor did they fail to protest abortion, nor did they fail to condemn Gay lifestyles...NO ! None of the "popular" Christian trends today are cause for eternal damnation.

They are condemned for failure to treat their fellow humans as they would treat God; clothe, feed, house and care. This is the Path God has laid down for those that truly believe, for in each of us There exists God, in each of us exists a slice of heaven. the failure to recognize that is the cause for Eternal Damnation.

The AIDS patient that gives another their medication is closer to God than the priest or paster that condemns that Same person, A Homeless man that gives another the coat off their back is a better testament to God than the Pope, A social worker feeding the hungry is a living example of the template Jesus left to follow.
That is the message God left. The rest is just frosting.

what does any of the above have to do with finding the truth..
and what truth are we talking about..
the question is vague
i found the truth on the back of a cornflakes cereal box..

I'll tell you the truth. Do you have a minute? Because thats all it will take. Jesus tried to teach morals. Matthew, Mark, and Luke, decided to write some books. AKA "Gospels", documenting Jesus' teachings. Well, they decided to change a few words to cater to the religious establishment. Rather than to carry on Jesus' true teachings about morals. They wanted to further the idea of power through a religious establishment ie., "a church", rather than further the idea of a guiding set of morals to live a long and prosperous life with a government for the people. Well, thier warped ideology sparked what evolved into current day religious beliefs. The bible has been edited, re-edited, and re-re-edited to fit the current establishment's needs.

Most people don't even know most of what Jesus actually taught. Lets not factor in the fact that Jesus could possibly have had dillusional mental deficiency. While remaining a good person, it's probable he suffered from dilusions of grandeur, skitzophrenic visions, phantom voices.. you name it. No one knows. Those arent the kind of facts that come up in biblical texts. What does come up is rhetoric.

While i realize that most of the seemingly endless rhetoric comes from the inflection and structure of languages used in those times, some concepts are just too abstract and demanding that one MUST presume the authors were not mentally on stable footing.

a Quote from Toolmaker..
_ - - - - - - - -
"The AIDS patient that gives another their medication is closer to God than the priest or paster that condemns that Same person, A Homeless man that gives another the coat off their back is a better testament to God than the Pope, A social worker feeding the hungry is a living example of the template Jesus left to follow. That is the message God left. The rest is just frosting."
_- - - - - - - - -

Ok, preists condemn AIDS patients? Also, sorry i thought AIDS medication was free.... 2. A homeless man that give his only coat to someone is a homeless man with a mental deficiency. 3. Social workers don't feed hungry people. They counsel families about healthcare and child raising, and adoption, and psychiatric conditions, ect.. 4. "God" didn't leave a message, Jesus did. "God" wasn't a human bieng living in those times.

So, my question to you is, what is wrong with you exactly? Mabye some of your synapses are dead. Or maybe your NMT's are low. Too much gabba.. whatever it is, you need to get some rest. STOP reading the bible. Maybe go buy a telescope. Thats the closest you'll ever get to heaven in my opinion.

Originally posted by steplogic
the only issues i have are with people with "faith".

Everbody has faith. The question is, what do you have faith in? You have faith that your chair is going to support you when you sit down. I have faith that God will support the right decisions in my life. Why? Because to me it has been proven. I can't give you the same proof because God works one-on-one. What is your issue with me? (since I have faith)

Originally posted by steplogic
i used to attend church regularly. i felt like everyone was just trying to fit in.

They probably were. Sounds like they were going to church for the wrong reason too. I'm fairly sure I stand out at church and I don't care. I'm not there for other people, I'm there to hang out with the big G.

Originally posted by steplogic
i felt like people were lying.

They may have, they may not have. As people, we can't see into other people's heart. Only God can. You're not supposed to be there to judge everyone though, you're supposed to be there to strengthen YOUR connection with God.

Originally posted by steplogic
true christianity is just an emotional state one goes through.

False, but again you'd have to find your own proof to believe.

Originally posted by steplogic
without sounding like an a**hole, i really do think something is mentally deficient in a believer.

For arguements sake, let's test the theory beginning with me. I am ready for questioning.

Originally posted by steplogic
i truly feel that they are lacking something emotionally that religion creates for them.

What am I lacking?

Originally posted by steplogic
and THATS FINE WITH ME. but what i dont like is when they force it on others.

Agreed. I don't know how anyone can force belief on anybody.

Originally posted by steplogic
its not ok by any means. if i believed that theres was some butterfly god, you would look at me like i was crazy. well, i dont believe there is a god, so pardon me for thinking YOU are crazy.

That's okay, it does sound a bit 'crazy'. Anything regarding life after death and conceptionalizing eternity sound crazy, God moreso. I guess it does take an explorer's mind to approach these subjects realizing that not answers are going to come right away.

Originally posted by steplogic
i definatley dont need to bow my head and talk to myself like some person at an insane asylum,

Agreed. Talking to myself never accomplished much.

Originally posted by steplogic
and frankly i dont need to explain myself to you because you arent going to change my mind. if you believe anything, believe that.

Fair enough. The option is always there, just trying to help along the way.

you dont know how a belief could be forced on somone? try the admendment banning gay marraige for starters. this conversation is going nowhere fast. i really dont have time to explain things to you that are right in front of your face. also, i meant faith in "god". i thought that was apparent.

Originally posted by steplogic
you dont know how a belief could be forced on somone? try the admendment banning gay marraige for starters. this conversation is going nowhere fast. i really dont have time to explain things to you that are right in front of your face. also, i meant faith in "god". i thought that was apparent.

Sorry steplogic if I'm missing your point and going nowhere fast, just trying to help.