Why do you think it's ok to accept that women are incapable of standing up for themselves?

See? I don't get this.

I was taught that part of taking care of myself as a woman was understanding how to avoid getting into bad situations as much as possible. That bit was my responsibility. Hence my post about alcohol.

A responsible adult of either gender is capable of thinking in advance about the risks they are about to take and deciding if they want to take them in every situation.

Sometimes, that isn't enough to keep us from harm, but it is the first sign of being a mature, responsible adult and being capable of standing up for ourselves - man or woman.

Here's a thought, maybe father's should teach their sons to respect women?

Just thinkin out loud here.

Why does women being protected fall on their shoulders completely?

Maybe we should strive to cultivate a society that promotes respect towards women?

My boy just turned five, he has three older step sisters. And he already has more respect for girls and women then grown men like CK.

a reply to: denybedoomed

Why is it everyone else's responsibility and none of yours?

Like it or not, there are always going to be those people who are not going to care one whit about you and are going to be bad actors, and for that reason, and that reason alone, you need to be able to take care of yourself.

a reply to: ketsuko

So, forget about those who don't stand up for themselves?
Or just yell at them for daring to do so after the fact?

Evolution in action? People taking advantage of their advantage over others. Is that ok with you?

a reply to: Phage

I'm just saying at some point, we have to expect people to take some responsibility for themselves, man or woman.

If we accept that women are never capable or to be expected to stand up for themselves, then we might as well all of us tuck our hair and body into a burka and never leave the house without a male relative to escort us. The Muslims have it right.

a reply to: ketsuko

The Muslims have it right.

They do? There is no sexual abuse in Muslim countries?

a reply to: toysforadults

The reason? Because they ARE standing up for themselves already! ATS lady members , thought provoking and are smart, and fear no evil...and we have some of the best!

...goes out to our members of our female demographic!

M.S.

a reply to: ketsuko

Of course I believe we should be teaching young women to be able to stand up for themselves, but to what end?

Yes, there will always be dicks like CK who are using their "power" over women, but where do we draw a line for men to stop being such dicks in the first place.

Like i said i have three step daughters. They're gorgeous and smart. They know how to take care of themselves to a certain extent, and i hope that they will never even have to be in a position where they need to defend themselves against some creep bastard.

But if they do, that guy will sorely regret it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ketsuko

The Muslims have it right.

They do? There is no sexual abuse in Muslim countries?

The Muslim idea that women cannot be counted on to take care of themselves in the face of male aggression and that men cannot control themselves when confronted with a woman must obviously be the correct one according to this thread.

A woman is an automatic victim from the moment she is born and a man is an automatic aggressor beast.

That is the underlying assumption. That wasn't the world I was raised in where both sexes are expected to grow up and become responsible adults with some responsibility for them persons, but it seems to be the world I now live in.

a reply to: ketsuko

That wasn't the world I was raised in where both sexes are expected to grow up and become responsible adults with some responsibility for them persons, but it seems to be the world I now live in.

There was no sexual abuse in the world in which you were raised? Or maybe the women weren't so uppity to mention it.

a reply to: denybedoomed

My point is that there will always be creeps like Louis CK.

Women need to be aware of that. You need to know that if you go around someone who has power like that, they may try to use it, but women can abuse power like that as much as men can. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There are stories of women abusing their position on their male underlings.

originally posted by: toysforadults
Apparently women are not being taught by their fathers to stand up for themselves anymore. I remember my grandmother sticking up for herself all the time. She came from a time period when women weren't allowed to drive. The taught herself how to drive at 26 when her husband got sick and she knew how to stand up for herself. I watched her put her foot down with people all the time.

So wouldn't the true feminist thing and the most empowering thing for women to do is actually stand up for themselves even if it means fighting in these situations instead of teaching them they are incapable of doing so?

I have done jiu jitsu with women for years and most of the purple belts+ would dominate the majority of you men in a hand to hand combat situation and you wouldn't even be able to fight back you would be clueless.

So obviously women are capable of defending themselves and they she be confident enough to stick up for themselves.

So why isn't that a topic of conversation?

Why are women suppose to be so weak and unable to put their foot down and standup for themselves??

This sounds to me like a sort of rape apology.
"Your honour, she wore a short skirt, she didn't try and gauge his eyes out, she didn't make him beat her half to death..."


Just because someone doesn't immediately call someone on their awful behaviour, doesn't mean that behaviour is right.

a reply to: Phage

Women are the only victims of sexual abuse?

Is there or is there not a thread discussing a man being a victim right now?

Why do you think I mentioned that it is up to adults to understand and assess their risks as much as possible?

a reply to: ketsuko

Women are the only victims of sexual abuse?

No. But until now you haven't mentioned men.

Why do you think I mentioned that it is up to adults to understand and assess their risks as much as possible?

Ah. I see. It's the victims' fault for being so naive.

a reply to: ketsuko

A woman is an automatic victim from the moment she is born and a man is an automatic aggressor beast.

Nailed it. This is why they are trying to plant in our psyche.

a reply to: Phage

You are good at trying to read between the lines.

At what point do you bear some responsibility for yourself?

If I go to a bar, drink about 8 or 9 mixed drinks, have vastly diminished capacity and accept a ride home with the first stranger I see who promptly takes advantage of me, no doubt he's at fault, but at the same time, what was I expecting to happen?

I put myself in harm's way.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: toysforadults

I don't know about in general, but I know for a fact women really are incapable of standing up for themselves once alcohol has entered their blood. Once a woman has alcohol, she is open for business to the first man she sees as hot. And then the following morning she will claim she was assaulted. That just proves women should not drink alcohol.

Really ? I know plenty of women who have more balls then men after a couple shots. Never speak in absolutes... it's never correct... and that was a very demeaning post to any woman who decides to have a few drinks.

a reply to: ketsuko

At what point do you bear some responsibility for yourself?

For my own actions, always.

I put myself in harm's way.

Indeed. Is that what the women referenced by the OP have done?

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Peeple
The only thing that has happened to me 6 times out of ten is fun times with the women that I used to meet at a club or bar. The other three times ends with them being carried away by friends because all the hurling they do from excessive drinking.

So you're a rapist then?

originally posted by: denybedoomed
Here's a thought, maybe father's should teach their sons to respect women?

You know what's always confused me as a woman? I mean, other than the "I am woman, hear me roar/Pamper me so I don't have to lift a finger" doublespeak our gender is so good at.

Why is it only women can demand respect? Common sense tells me the road goes both ways. So why do women get it automatically, but men should earn it from women?

Try to explain that one without admitting sexist double standards.