If you think being transsexual is a mental disorder...

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you are able to live a rich and fulfilling life then you don't have a mental disorder. A mental disorder is something that gets in the way of your normal functioning and happiness.

What about a "perfectly happy, rich, fulfilling" serial rapist? I suppose legal problems may eventually be a result, but until then?

I guess it also depends on your definition of "normal functioning". I suspect we may differ there.

I don't consider a rapist to be 'normal functioning', but maybe you do.

I stand by my post.

a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

Can of worms are the best conversations. Challenging oneself and others is the best way to learn imo.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Antipathy17

I wouldn't say a disorder or bad wiring or anything like that.

Personally, I believe it could be something learned by a person's surroundings, a trauma induced choice, the way a person is brought up, influences, lifestyle choice, sexual desire, etc.

I don't believe it's genetic. I don't believe in the "born that way" ideology. I don't believe it's something broken in a person. I honestly believe it's one or more of the things I've listed or other similar situations.

"I wouldn't say a disorder or bad wiring or anything like that."

A part o me agrees. Maybe I just don't have the vocabulary to describe what I am trying to say or even just not in the right state of mind. I really mean no negativity toward gay people or Trans people. Just trying to figure this out for myself. I doesn't matter as much to me if you guys learn this time around; this is for me.


"I don't believe it's genetic" For some I think it is. No way to gauge the nature nurture thing though... you either have the gene that allows it to be enabled or a gene that is the enabling; leaning toward prior.

a reply to: MisterSpock

Non practicing, I have NO issues with. Live by societies rules, change them or live by the consequences.

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you are able to live a rich and fulfilling life then you don't have a mental disorder. A mental disorder is something that gets in the way of your normal functioning and happiness.

Personally, I think that is a load of crap. I'd like to explain but really it's a lot to go into. It's not simple but to me, that simply isn't the truth. If you'd like to spend the time and try to educate me, please do. I didn't my thoughts away so arguing it would probably be wasted time.

originally posted by: Milkweed
What is a mental disorder anyway? We all have issues. Even you. Yes you OP.

I would never claim such. I am always examining my capabilities and limitations. I'd like to think more than most people.

"What is a mental disorder anyway?" We must go by the definition. No point in words if we don't. If we can't explain ourselves with the right words, then we need to learn some new ones.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

"The problem with the premise of your OP is that it specifies "transgenderism" instead of "Gender Identity Disorder,"

With all do respect, I may not be using the proper terminology. I apologize.

Your statement I would prefer to have spoken to me as long reading causes me to lose focus. Not that your post is long but I've been reading quite a bit just now. I still get what your premise is but I am losing some detail.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Antipathy17

I see a world of difference in the two situations and have always been surprised that those who identify themselves as gay have been so ready to allow trans people to hitch up their wagon. I have no idea of the causes of transgenderism but feel that it is too easy to just accept it without being aware if it is causing any harm. This is particularly true for children, imo.

I see a whole lot of differences as well. Because it hopped on the bandwagon is why I am asking. The differences are clear but my wording isn't precise. I was on break at work when I started this and this kind of topic deserves much more time. Sadly I've failed but it's a lesson learned. At least some chatter came out of it.

I've been trying to figure some things out with society lately and it's very time consuming. Even though my outcome isn't what I wanted, it's quite pleasant to have different conversations than I expected.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Antipathy17

They are normal people with sexual attraction different from you. They might be bi, they might be full on gay, but their sexual orientation has nothing to with their physical or mental health.

I wasn't trying to convey anything opposing this statement. If I gave that impression it was only because I rushed, shamefully; while on break at work. What you said is what I hold true but questioning a belief when challenged by another is a good way to learn for me.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You're opinion is pretty much my own on this one but I am giving the benefit of doubt to Trans' people for now. I question many decision made by the "experts"

originally posted by: Antipathy17
What are your opinions on homosexuality? I personally think that homosexuality is a disorder but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be acceptable. We have a plethora of acceptable diseases that carry no social stigma. The difference is the severity. At least in my mind. If you want to know my opinion on transsexuals than see my other tread, I can't link on mobile.


Regardless, no ill will meant. Just learning.

Personally, I do view being transgender is a mental illness. Something is broken in the head that makes someone believe they aren't what they are. No different than the people who believe they are animals in human form(furries), or people who feel they shouldn't have the limbs they have(body integrity identity disorder). Now just because I feel it's a mental illness doesn't mean I wish them harm, nor do I treat them with disrespect.

Now regarding homosexuality, I actually do believe that is perfectly natural. Nature needs to find ways to prevent animals from over-breeding, which is why we have the food chain. Since humans are at the top of the food chain, it's very easy for them to keep breeding without control(topic for another day). I view homosexuality as nature's way of helping prevent over-breeding.

To me, it is perfectly natural to be attracted to what interests you, whether it be male or female, or any ethnicity that allures you. I don't find it natural to be something you're not. It's not natural to think you should not have a right arm, it's not natural to think you should really be a dog, and I don't believe it's natural to believe you're a man trapped in a woman's body, or vice-versa.

A man will never know what it "feels like" to be a woman.

A woman will never know what is "Feels like" to be a man.

Ignore the is it a disorder question, it's more of a you're an idiot problem.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Considering we treat people who believe they're a race they clearly aren't, people who believe they're another species of animal, people who believe they're infants/children, people who believe they're aliens, and people who believe they're Jesus Christ all like mental patients who desperately need treatment, why should a woman who believes she is a man or a man who believes he is a woman receive anything different?

Apples to oranges comparisons? I understand the fear many have to an extent, that giving way for transgender rights, that people who feel they are animals to people who feel they are aliens will all "demand" to have their own bathroom, marriage or other.

If they are transgender, why should they not be treated equally, as in not being beat up or killed because some people in society could not accept the person for who they are(see Barndon Teena)?

Is not a cat, despite hundreds of thousands of dollars of surgery to make him look like one. Don't get me wrong, if an adult wants to mutilate their body or live as whatever they want to live as, that's their business completely. BUT they do not have any right to expect the rest of the world to coddle their damaged perceptions and join them in their lies. That's where issues arise. It would be like me demanding everyone call me "King Burd" and speak of me as royalty... sans an actual royal pedigree, it isn't happening and I'm sane enough to acknowledge that and tailor my expectations to accept that fact.

Well, when he was alive he probably wished for respect, in a society that paraded disabled people culture wise(from extra limbs, women with beards, to pituitary midgets and extremely obese people) as freak shows-often giving them the only option for employment, of course it's hard to ask for. Respect, ie. not staring, pointing, etc.,etc, instead of wishing for people to conform and "join them in their lives" to what he seen himself as.

a reply to: Necrobile


I don't believe TG is a mental illness, nor is homosexuality.

Personally, I do view being transgender is a mental illness. Something is broken in the head that makes someone believe they aren't what they are. No different than the people who believe they are animals in human form(furries), or people who feel they shouldn't have the limbs they have(body integrity identity disorder). Now just because I feel it's a mental illness doesn't mean I wish them harm, nor do I treat them with disrespect.

I feel this is another comparison which is near to apples to oranges in argument. Transgender is more complex and is now not absolute in terms of being considered disorder rather than a natural occurrence.

Interestingly enough even body integrity identity disorder/ limb amputation can be categorized as body modification namely when it's amputation, such as finger removal, similar to tattooing and branding.

Also, furries don't exactly believe they are animals, it's anthropomorphic- animal in human form such as in fandom cosplay.

Now regarding homosexuality, I actually do believe that is perfectly natural. Nature needs to find ways to prevent animals from over-breeding, which is why we have the food chain. Since humans are at the top of the food chain, it's very easy for them to keep breeding without control(topic for another day). I view homosexuality as nature's way of helping prevent over-breeding. To me, it is perfectly natural to be attracted to what interests you, whether it be male or female, or any ethnicity that allures you. I don't find it natural to be something you're not. It's not natural to think you should not have a right arm, it's not natural to think you should really be a dog, and I don't believe it's natural to believe you're a man trapped in a woman's body, or vice-versa.

Though, it's not believing, it's knowing, that they are the opposite sex from which they were born as. That should very well be regarded as natural.

Food for thought;

If a skinny person looks at themselves in the mirror and thinks they are too fat, then takes steps to radically change their bodies to become more skinny... they are diagnosed with a mental disorder called Anorexia Nervosa and are given treatments like therapy.

If a man looks at himself in the mirror and thinks he is a woman, then takes steps to radically change their bodies to become more of a woman... they are given an award and lauded as a hero by the liberal media.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Where did I say anyone deserves to be beaten or killed? Suffering from mental illness of any nature (assuming you're hurting no one) doesn't equate to deserving to be assaulted. Not sure what purpose is served by making that massive leap from what I posted to a story about someone who was assaulted.

On your second point, let's be rational and honest here... if you intentionally modify your appearance to draw attention to yourself, you lose the high ground to justify complaining when you're effectively a walking spectacle. Again, no justification for assaulting anyone, but oogling, pointing, staring isn't assault. We're not exactly talking about people with birth defects, either... we're talking about people who have made conscious decisions to alter their appearance into something they clearly aren't.

a reply to: Antipathy17

I don't see a problem with calling it a mental disorder if it helps solve the high rate of suicides in the trans community. The only way to solve that issue is being honest

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: dreamingawake

Where did I say anyone deserves to be beaten or killed? Suffering from mental illness of any nature (assuming you're hurting no one) doesn't equate to deserving to be assaulted. Not sure what purpose is served by making that massive leap from what I posted to a story about someone who was assaulted.

On your second point, let's be rational and honest here... if you intentionally modify your appearance to draw attention to yourself, you lose the high ground to justify complaining when you're effectively a walking spectacle. Again, no justification for assaulting anyone, but oogling, pointing, staring isn't assault. We're not exactly talking about people with birth defects, either... we're talking about people who have made conscious decisions to alter their appearance into something they clearly aren't.

Didn't say you did, just hypothetically to explain what can happen to people when they are regarded as different in society, in some cases one that says that that person deserves what they receive for being different.

No, staring, pointing, calling names isn't assault(names could be libel however), though it should not be appropriate in a civilized society, no? Does that society just make sure everyone looks the same-Brave New World -like, so that doesn't happen or do they teach tolerance, because some will choose to not follow the grain, born that way or not?

a reply to: JDmOKI

Terming it as a mental disorder, would say in likely many cases, effectively trying to treat someone for it or try to cure it surely has done more damage over the years, then letting that person become what they feel they are.

a reply to: Konduit

People with gender dysphoria are also given treatments like therapy.

With anorexia, therapy alone can actually cure the problem. Therapy alone has never cured gender dysphoria. Its been tried.

Anorexia is usually caused by existing issues of self-worth. Dealing with those psychological issues usually solves the problem. Gender dysphoria is much more complex, and most likely has a more neurological origin rather than a psychological origin, hence the failure rate of therapy and/or drugs alone.

The only treatment for gender dysphoria that has any success rate is to help each individual transition to the point that the dysphoria symptoms go away. What that point is will vary by individual. Some just need to take hormones. Others need to have varying levels of surgical procedures, possibly (but not always) including sex reassignment surgery.

After transitioning, those who easily "pass" and are accepted by family, friends and society as the gender they identify with, are usually happy, healthy, and perfectly normally functioning adults.

Just more "food for thought" and a little education for anyone interested.