The word fact and opinion are not the same word

a reply to: dfnj2015

How to address the fact, or the best way to address the fact, is an opinion. Public policies, and ALL politics, is nothing but opinions. ALL political discussions in response to facts are opinions.

Why did you not just state that facts are NOT opinions ? Because your statement here is entirely wrong . There are in fact best ways of addressing facts , not alterable by opinion, eg medical practise vs voodoo potion . Misguiding statements or beleifs such as yours are often the reason that collective projects fail , but what you should learn is that the "textbook approach" is already a given in so many affairs . When Marshall Law becomes public policy you're not going to be just calling it opinion . Next time we're having a political discussion by the sea about the fact there tsunami coming and what we should do , then I'm getting in the truck and going uphill - if thats just an opinion on it to you then ok , stay and be pedantic

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

Your interpretation of the graph, is that it's factual representing climate-change. That is an opinion.

The only fact about that graph, is that it represents a data-set, using standard graphing formulas.
Whether or not someone trusts that data-set as accurate, is a matter of opinion.
Some do. Some don't.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Tellurian
a reply to: dfnj2015

I knew there was a good chance this thread was headed down hill after you quoted some statistics as facts...

The question over whether a fact is a true or false has nothing to do with this discussion. Talking about statistics and the way data can be manipulated to give a certain opinion is a different discussion. There is a number of how many teenage girls get pregnant per 1000 in this country. That number if measured correctly is a fact. It's not something open to interpretation.

Are you saying because facts may be wrong all facts are opinions?

Do you agree that fact and opinion are not the same word? If not, what is the difference in your mind.

So much for "Science facts"

a reply to: GeneralMayhem

Worse post in the thread. Adding meta-commentary adds nothing to the conversation.

If the facts show acid rain is killing fish, that is a fact. Having government policy to address acid rain is an opinion. You could just let all the fish die. It's purely subjective how to response to facts.

Everything you posted is nonsense.

a reply to: Nothin

Science is never perfect the first few passes. The process of science is all about refinement and reducing the level of errors and superstition. But that doesn't mean science is not the right approach because it is not perfect. Science is our best method for separating superstitious thinking from having a reasonable response to problems in society.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: GeneralMayhem

Worse post in the thread. Adding meta-commentary adds nothing to the conversation.

If the facts show acid rain is killing fish, that is a fact. Having government policy to address acid rain is an opinion. You could just let all the fish die. It's purely subjective how to response to facts.

Everything you posted is nonsense.

The amount of pople that fail to comprehend such a simple premise is starting to worry me.

It does however explain a lot about human nature though.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"we spend way too much money on the military"

That's a FACT.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean its inherently an opinion. Otherwise everything would be opinion.

Do you ever actually read anyone's posts? Please re-read the OP. What you just did was state your personal opinion-- which to forestall further debate, I agree with-- as fact.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: GeneralMayhem

Worse post in the thread. Adding meta-commentary adds nothing to the conversation.

If the facts show acid rain is killing fish, that is a fact. Having government policy to address acid rain is an opinion. You could just let all the fish die. It's purely subjective how to response to facts.

Everything you posted is nonsense.

The amount of pople that fail to comprehend such a simple premise is starting to worry me.

It does however explain a lot about human nature though.

Yeah, me too. There's actually been a lot written this subject.

Charlie Rose interview: Kurt Andersen introduces his new book, "Fantasyland: How American Went Haywire."



Kurt's work is okay but I think he's just scratching the surface. But there is something to the idea that superstitious thinking takes precedence over science as a cultural phenomena in the World. It sure feels like we are heading to a mentality of having inquisitions again.

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

Your interpretation of the graph, is that it's factual representing climate-change. That is an opinion.

Yes. That is an opinion. The data itself, however, is a fact. Which has been what I've been saying since word one. Please attempt to understand the words I type better.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

Your interpretation of the graph, is that it's factual representing climate-change. That is an opinion.

Yes. That is an opinion. The data itself, however, is a fact. Which has been what I've been saying since word one. Please attempt to understand the words I type better.

We are not describing the same thing.
You wrote: "The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion."
My reply meant to indicate a difference between the data used to draw the graph, (A) and whatever data exists on the climate, (B).

You seem to think that data set (A) is equal to data set (B), and therefore the graph perfectly represents climate-change, and is a a fact. That would be opinion.
My post tried to make a distinction between the two, but you were too busy posting about how you were misunderstood, to realize that you were misunderstanding.

Fudged, skewered, manipulated, adjusted, changed, and imperfect data cannot a fact make. Or can it?

Anyways: the graph doesn't actually show the climate, because the data is untrustworthy.
Fact or opinion?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Nothin

Science is never perfect the first few passes. The process of science is all about refinement and reducing the level of errors and superstition. But that doesn't mean science is not the right approach because it is not perfect. Science is our best method for separating superstitious thinking from having a reasonable response to problems in society.

The scientific-method is a fine approach.
But we must not put science, nor scientists on a pedestal. They are both prone to error, and influence.

a reply to: Nothin

It is your opinion that the data is untrustworthy. What facts do you have to support that opinion?

a reply to: Nothin

I will repeat it ONCE more. The data is a fact. Your interpretation of the data is the opinion. I do not care about your opinion about climate change theory being manipulated. This isn't the thread for that.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Still here then lol.

a reply to: nonspecific

Heh. As I told you on page 2 this thread may not seem necessary, but the people posting within it sure do prove that isn't the case. This is a just another reflection on how low America's critical thinking skills have fallen.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Nothin

I will repeat it ONCE more. The data is a fact. Your interpretation of the data is the opinion. I do not care about your opinion about climate change theory being manipulated. This isn't the thread for that.

Do you finally understand that your opinion that the graph represented actual climate change, was an error then?
It represents a data set, but you said it was factual in regards to climate-change. It's not.
It is only factual towards the data-set upon which it was graphed. How can you not see the difference?

Am not attached to the idea of climate-change, for this discussion. Can give you another example if you need it.

(Perhaps you need not be so quick to criticize others for their critical thinking ability?)

a reply to: dfnj2015

This is why you start a sentence with "methinks" or something like that-that's opinion, when you start a sentence with something with "well actually..." like you are stating a fact then you had better have the playbook to talk up a big game.

But there are some grey areas-like UFO's. Methinks that the in most UFO reports there is a logical explanation, but well actually there are many unexplained accounts of UFO's. It's a matter of perspective, as Obi Wan once said "Your father is dead...from a certain point of view." in Obi Wan's opinion Luke's father is dead, but the fact is he is still alive.

It's up to us to retune our BS meter or the fakes and phonies will continue to fool us.