I've realised something about US gun control, and I'd like to share it....

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5

originally posted by: Tulpa
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Criminals still shoot people in the UK.

hardly ever. not in the same universe, let alone ballpark, as the USA gun madness.

And when criminals do shoot somebody in the UK, it's almost always another criminal. Because the vast majority of the small amount of gun crime we have is drug dealers shooting other drug dealers.

If every single person turned off the television, phone, computer, shooting deaths would likely decrease dramatically, and mental health might immediately improve as a society.

The problem is not with the guns (although you won't find me a major proponent) it is with the media poisoning our minds, the food and drugs poisoning our bodies, social media's way of atomizing people and distancing relationships by replacing personal interaction with remote interaction.

Without addressing these problems first, our society will continue to churn out humans devoid of humanity. Some of these will lash out violently as they see this behavior every day in movies, the news, etc.

Find the source to find solutions.

EDIT: Of course, this is entirely unrealistic. The sad truth is the above mentioned symptoms of our diseased society are so deeply rooted by now- best we can hope for is a change in our mind about what kind of input we want for ourselves and change the programming.

a reply to: Painterz


Although the media may pretend otherwise, most of the violence in this country is also drug dealers/criminals shooting other drug dealers and criminals.

Mass shootings are exceedingly rare in the US, and you have a much (MUCH) higher chance of dying in an automobile accident than in a mass shooting. They also like to include suicides/accidents/justified homicides in their statistics. Whatever is shown in CNN/Fox/BBC/etc you can be assured it is much lower.

Besides, looking only at firearm related deaths is highly dishonest. Is there some reason ALL illegal murders shouldn't be included? Why are guns the focus?

a reply to: JBurns

I completely understand that viewpoint - it makes sense to an extent.

As a British person, I find the thought of guns scary and I could never countenance shooting a person - even in self-defence. This is partly down to me being a wuss but more so down to the profound cultural and legal differences between the US and the UK.

My grandfather served in the marines and he always told me that you should never point a gun unless you are prepared to pull the trigger. I think one of the main differences between British and American attitudes is that in Britain you would find fewer people prepared to pull the trigger than you would find in the US (most British people would struggle to handle a gun - let alone fire it!)

Like I said in my post it comes down to where you stand on killing. In Britain, if a person kills then they are committing a crime - in the US if a person kills, it may sometimes be justified.

There was once a day when both heroin and meth were totally unregulated and 'over the counter' legal drugs and it wasn't an issue.

But then the world changed, a middle class developed in the first world and your average person now had a desposible income and way to much time on there hands... which become a recipe for disater and caused a serious social health epidemic. As it happens, the government just took a knee jerk reaction to this new health concern and just out right prohibited these drugs, rather than adopting a scientifically based logical approach to regulating them... which obviuosly just made the problem worse.

The same thing is occuring in the US atm with there guns, as that happened in the first world with drugs in the early 20th century. The culture has changed and a free for all is no longer appropriate for the well being of society in the US... but out right prohibiton (like the prohibition of drugs) would obviously just create more problems than it solves.... There needs to be level headed evidenced based polices enacted that would regulate guns in the US in a common sense manner.

For example, in Australia your not allowed to own a gun for the purpose of protection, only hunting or sport is considered a legitimate reason to own a firearm... Now obviously, prohibiting Americans from owning firearms for the purpose of self protection in there current culture would be completely counter productive and could even actually make the situation worse... Its a policy that works in Australia where we're raised to believe that we live in an incredibly safe & civilized society, but it obviously wouldn't work in the US, where there raised from birth to beleive that danger is everywhere and that behind every corner is someone who desires to murder them and there entire family... just becuase.

I agree to a certain extent.

I do believe that some people are open minded enough to change their views.

However in general most people will not change their views because it seem to be human nature to want to be in the right and to change your views is to admit you were wrong. So regardless people are who are pro gun will always be pro-gun.

So yeah I think you are correct, you are never going to convince anyone that guns are wrong if they are strong second amendment advocates. Furthermore I also think you are correct in saying that American views of guns are very different from the rest of the developed world and that is a further obstacle to changing the laws.

I do think however you can challenge their views and make them think about their views more deeply.

Good thread S&F

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Probably none lol..

A) most murders (80%+) are by a family member or close friend.. aka not someone that you would consider a threat enough to shoot before they shot you...



B) Why would a robber or burglars need to kill you when they know your not armed??

It’s the same with the police.. the reason they shoot people for wiggling wrong is because everyone has guns and their training tells them to take no chances...

If the person robbing you knows your not armed, then your not really a threat and there is no need for a murder charge..

C) your not gonna have anyone accidental shootings and misidentified shootings and suicides by gun..

A lot of the suicide deaths would remain, but they wouldn’t be shootings anyone..


So yea shooting deaths would absolutely fall and probably a lot because accidental, misidentification and suicides are likely 60% of all shooting +.

That said rape and robbery could skyrocket lol.




Added in edit....

To be fair that also isn’t counting the 30 million deaths it takes in the Civil War it takes to REMOVE the guns from all the law abiding people.. lol

originally posted by: wheresthebody
A large number of my friends have firearms, (we are not in the USA). They collect, shoot targets and hunt. They all regularly complain about american gun culture and how they are worried about being associated with it.

I get that guns aren't just for hunting and target shooting, they are for protecting yourself and your family, but you have to admit that many advocates of americas gun culture are over the top with their enthusiasm, it makes everyone look terrifying to those are unfamiliar with the issue

I would be curios to know why they feel this way. I'd guess ignorance right off the bat, but without knowing it's mind boggling. I am a collector who enjoys shooting and carries daily with a permit, but has never killed a person, and has no desire to ever do that. In what way am I different than your friends? My location?

First, guns are here already. There's nothing we can do about that.
Second, why are people from the UK so concerned with US gun law?

a reply to: Inc_9x


Hey buddy, I totally respect your point of view. If not wanting to take another life makes you a wuss than I am most certainly a wuss also

Between carrying as a citizen and as a law enforcement officer for decades, I've never discharged my weapon in defense. If I can live out the rest of my life without having to harm a soul, then I will consider myself blessed.

Plan A is living the life I choose in pursuit of happiness and success;

Plan B is my assortment of defensive arms

In any case, thank you for the intelligent and reasoned discussion. It is always interesting to hear many different points of view

The most popular form of sucide in the states is "death by cop".

The entrenched gun culture facilatates this. The reason we are seeing vechiles used as weapons is
Its easier to get a truck than a gun.

a reply to: SmilingROB

The most popular form of sucide in the states is "death by cop".

Nope its death by firearm.

People shooting themselves with their own guns.

a reply to: Tulpa

Maybe the thought it to weed them out of society and criminals are not known for their pristine treatment of their collectibles..

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

I notice you are from the UK as well. As I always ask our friends across the pond when they bring up this issue, how? How do you remove all the guns in the US? There are over 300 million people in the US, and low estimates have the amount of guns in the US at around 300 million as well.

So, how is it we remove all of these guns? Voluntarily? Forcefully? There is no way everyone would volunteer their guns, so what do we do, go door to door and search every household for guns?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Which is a tragedy, but doesn't really have anything to do with the second amendment. Practically speaking, the fact that individuals with certain psychiatric conditions use firearms to end their lives has nothing to do with my lawful use of those same weapons. Extremely distraught people may take their own lives with a firearm, and that has nothing to do with me. Just as careless people can have accidents, killing themselves or their loved ones - but again, this is their responsibility.

It all comes down to intent, and individual responsibility. It is perfectly normal and acceptable to feel a certain way for these people, but in the end there is no action another person can take that would justify infringing on the rights of others.

That is my two cents anyhow, for what it is worth around here

originally posted by: SmilingROB


The reason we are seeing vechiles used as weapons is
Its easier to get a truck than a gun.

But atleast with a truck, most reasonably fit and healthy people are going to have the reflexes of a 'startled gazelle' if they see one coming for them... you've atleast got a chance.

But you can't dodge a bullet!

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Which is a tragedy, but doesn't really have anything to do with the second amendment. Practically speaking, the fact that individuals with certain psychiatric conditions use firearms to end their lives has nothing to do with my lawful use of those same weapons. Extremely distraught people may take their own lives with a firearm, and that has nothing to do with me. Just as careless people can have accidents, killing themselves or their loved ones - but again, this is their responsibility.

It all comes down to intent, and individual responsibility. It is perfectly normal and acceptable to feel a certain way for these people, but in the end there is no action another person can take that would justify infringing on the rights of others.

That is my two cents anyhow, for what it is worth around here

Thats all fine.

I get what you are saying.

But.....

When the Australians changed their gun laws, their suicide by gun rates plummeted and so too did their overall suicide rate.

a reply to: Vector99

Especially considering that police/military forces aren't too keen on suicide missions.

a reply to: underpass61

there has been mass shootings since 40 odd years ago

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I know, and I agree that it would probably have a decent impact on these rates. I don't doubt it would save lives.

I just doubt that there is any practical way to actually carry out any control measures we can come up with The nature of desperation/crime is that they'll do just about anything to achieve their end