Strange Revelations verse?

I have studied Revelations for a long long time and understand much of what it is trying to say, but one verse eludes me in particular. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas of what the verse Rev6:6 means:

"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.'

I have read commentary that the wheat and barley values indicated a time of inflated costs or a possible famine, as both of these are used to make bread, however I am skeptical as prices are always being inflated so it does not seem to point to a specific time that we could predict when this is to happen.

The 2nd sentence talks of oil and wine and not "injuring" it. I have no clue what this means. Does it mean that oil and wine are okay in some way, or they are not affected? Let's hear what you all think.

My personal opinion is that this refers to a famine. OR that there is significance between the two sets of crops. I believe this due to the deliberate separation of types of crops. Wheat and barley being grains and olives and grapes being the "fruit of the branch". Oil at that time being predominantly from olives, wine from grapes. If you look at the two sets of crops, there could be something learned. I'm not saying I've learned it. I'm just saying that might be the direction to investigate in order to learn more.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by Valhall]

I see the word denary comes from "money" dinars..thats all i can contribute to this puzzle

the 3rd horse (black) from the 3rd seal is a economic one. (revelations 6).
basically those prices are a total rip off. (and make sure you dont hurt the goods). i believe that these are the horses of zech 1 that are red black and spotted (the 2 3 4 horses)
Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that [were] in the bottom; and behind him [were there] red horses, speckled, and white

Joel 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. (iding the locusts in rev as a army of men)

Hsa 2:8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, [which] they prepared for Baal

Isa 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. (meaning of wine is the remnant)

Zec 9:17 For how great [is] his goodness, and how great [is] his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids (identifying further meaning of wine as people)
-------
also if you read amos chapter 8. you learn that the famine in the end times is for hearing Gods word. this futher ties in the economic fraud /trading of babylon city not to be just/only money, but the trading of religious goods/doctrine/falsities. (why no one can trade without the mark of the beast. the mark of being a unmarried worker of vanity)

i just read in this book called are we living in the end of times by the same guys who wrote all the left behing series and their interpretattion of the wine and oil not being "touched" is that the rich shall not be affected by all of this.

interesting, vonwoolf

Perhaps it could be referring to a sort of depression induced by monopolies? The corporations/rich have taken over the world, but the ordinary folks are left without food...

Just a wild guess. I don't have any information on the verses though I'll check into it as it's interesting.

who are the four horseman of apocolypse from the Revelations?

Originally posted by ben91069
I have studied Revelations for a long long time and understand much of what it is trying to say, but one verse eludes me in particular. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas of what the verse Rev6:6 means:

"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.'

I have read commentary that the wheat and barley values indicated a time of inflated costs or a possible famine, as both of these are used to make bread, however I am skeptical as prices are always being inflated so it does not seem to point to a specific time that we could predict when this is to happen.

The 2nd sentence talks of oil and wine and not "injuring" it. I have no clue what this means. Does it mean that oil and wine are okay in some way, or they are not affected? Let's hear what you all think.

The Biblical book of Revelation wasn't added until about 500 years after the Council of Nicea, so whats that say about the whole psychotic '___' trip gone bad? Saint John was enjoying some FINE marijuana on that little island. Besides, wars, rumors of wars, desease and famine, all of that has been around in every age, before Jesus's time, and afterwards as well. Every generation (even Jesus himself) believed that "their time" was the "last time". Look back at the new mellenim scare, were still here right?

Originally posted by justakid88
who are the four horseman of apocolypse from the Revelations?

they are the first 4 seals

1. White Horse - Anti Christ
2. Red Horse - War
3. Balck Horse - Famine
4. Ashen - Death

ashen is like a pale yellow green.

and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denaryand The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.

Hi, Ben:

Well, it takes some study, actually. You have to look in the book of Deut., Isaiah, Jeremiah and Eze., and to name a few others, but it's talking about the CURSE period. The CURSE period comes AFTER the BLESSING period, which the blessing period is unconditional.

For example, De 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing AND THE curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Yahweh your eloahi hath driven thee....

Notice first blessing, then curse. As a matter of fact, one has to experience extreme blessings to realize a curse. Give a nation a curse that's naturally in famine and plagues all the time anyway, do they realize a curse that's sent? NO! But give a nation that has had it all, all the food they need and material things and then send a curse, would they realize it? You bet!

So if you'll study various places in the OT dealing with plagues, famines, etc., you'll see it goes with Revelations.

Also, the oil (olive oil) and wine mean the sacred ruach (spirit) parabolically.

Tiza

The wheat and barley is what I've heard from others indicating economic problems. The following on oil and wine not being hurt is from me and is from being a christian and studying the bible. Some places in the Bible oil is symbolically used to represent the Holy Spirit and wine symbolically is used for the blood of Christ and that it was shed for the sin of mankind.

So the meaning of these verses, maybe even during an extremely bad time such as the tribulation the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not in any way be lessoned, for that is the objective of God at this point in time.

So the meaning of these verses, maybe even during an extremely bad time such as the tribulation the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not in any way be lessoned, for that is the objective of God at this point in time.

Hello,

You're right in saying that the gospel (glad tidings) of the coming Kingdom of Yahweh (aka Yahushua) will not be lessened. However, those that are the true followers will suffer, to be sure. As a matter of fact, 144,000 of the sons of Israel will lose their life during this time frame. This is one reason the 144,000 SONS OF ISRAEL, meaning the elect, are called the auni (phonetic; pronounced ah-nu-ee), meaning the afflicted, depressed in circumstances, sons, which the translators in the OT constantly translated into the word "poor" but means differently than financial poor. BTW, the 144,000 must be separated out from the rest of the assembly of Yahweh because there's going to be more who make it until the end of tribulation. The 144,000 have a special purpose, and they will be all male.

Tiza

Originally posted by ben91069

"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.'

Let's hear what you all think.

i've heard the price (a denary) would equal a whole days wages
so a food staple will be really expensive for some reason

Wheat, Corn, Barley, Rice are food staples, or the ingredients for other foods. the wheat & barley are accounted for in the verse...
you can also produce wine from rice (it's called Saki)
the barley is used for fermenting beer
SO-- the only thing really whammeyed is CORN...
for any commodities speculators...corn futures might be great. short term!

the OIL & WINE might really mean petroleum/crude oil and not olive oil?
the Wine being spared is because it is a storageable liquid product that does not require refrigeration or pasteurization/homoginization or special handling.

remember the latter day tribulations are going on in the midst of a great falling away & hedonism...there shouldnt be any slack given to antiquated rituals like olive oil for annointing or sacremental wine for believers....
remember those types of people were allready supposed to been RAPtured.

Originally posted by St Udio
remember the latter day tribulations are going on in the midst of a great falling away & hedonism...there shouldnt be any slack given to antiquated rituals like olive oil for annointing or sacremental wine for believers....
remember those types of people were allready supposed to been RAPtured.

There will be people saved during the tribulation. There will be those who are saved who die during the tribulation. I'm not saying mine is absolutely right or yours is wrong. This is probably one of those things we don't have enough info for yet.

The way I see it is either a great famine or crop disaster. For instance if the price of a loaf of bread was $2 today and that equalled 1/10 of an hour's wages, then in revelation it might cost $160 for the same loaf of bread. Wine and oil would be relatively untouched by price changes. For some people, this would also be an economic disaster since so much food uses wheat or bread. A possible reason for a crop disaster could result from a small asteroid impact which throws up a huge dust cloud for a few years around the whole planet. Temperatures would be freezing in the summer on occasion and crops would fail. Society as we know it would probably plunge back to the Dark Ages. War would probably break out among those trying to fight for food or warmer land. That's just my thoughts.

Another logical thought, if there isn't enough food for the masses, millions or billions could starve to death. I hate to think what starving humans would do in that situation.

[edit on 17-2-2005 by orionthehunter]

No mention of the ANTI-CHRIST in the Revelations. I Thought that would be the ideal spot to say a few words but nothing! As for the 4 Horses ive lost a lot of Denary backing them over the years to be first past the post....I blame the poor riding skills of the Horse-men...

You know, not to distract from this odd discussion, but do any of you care that Jesus himself is quoted talking about the end times? He uses words like, "in the lifetime of those standing before me".

Wouldn't it also be safe to say that his quote above is not the only one of the likes that he made, and it would not be the only reference to the endtimes comming a long time ago?

Yes, yes, even before your buddy pat robertson said it would in 1982, and then in 1984, and again, and again. But God specifically told him these things though, so they must be right. God also told him to broadcast it live on television, and that you should all send him the money so he can set up the "equipment to do that".

Isn't this just laughable.....

[edit on 2/18/2005 by Seapeople]

Originally posted by ben91069
"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.'




If you track thru the history of the bible you will find differnt types of judgements for differnt offenses, I have come to understand that certain areas shall have more severe judgements befall them , this passage also is verified as such in the first or opening chapters in Revelation. This passage is the varied judgements for the unrepenting and unchanging churches who each of which receive letters , and in the letters where laid out offenses and judgements which were varied in nature. This is just an exstension of the letters which warned of these actions as listed in the quoted scripture, Now as to the reference of not damaging the oil and wine these are references to those items still considered as part of the process of change and repentance.

Another words it is to say dont befall judgements apon those who have done as God asked, judge only those who where warned according to there offenses and leave the innocent alone.

And this is evidenced by references of oil and wine being used in sacrament , or salvation, it's a method of anointment where in oil and wine where used to
clense and confirm salvation and placement of faith in God. These are holy fluids of God set aside for purification.








[edit on 18/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by Seapeople
You know, not to distract from this odd discussion, but do any of you care that Jesus himself is quoted talking about the end times? He uses words like, "in the lifetime of those standing before me".

Wouldn't it also be safe to say that his quote above is not the only one of the likes that he made, and it would not be the only reference to the endtimes comming a long time ago?

Yes, yes, even before your buddy pat robertson said it would in 1982, and then in 1984, and again, and again. But God specifically told him these things though, so they must be right. God also told him to broadcast it live on television, and that you should all send him the money so he can set up the "equipment to do that".

Isn't this just laughable.....

[edit on 2/18/2005 by Seapeople]

Exactly... when someone stumbles upon a failed prophesy that they believe in so much their dogma blinds them from the obvious. They remain in ignorance.

Originally posted by ben91069

"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil and the wine thou mayest not injure.'


The 2nd sentence talks of oil and wine and not "injuring" it. I have no clue what this means. Does it mean that oil and wine are okay in some way, or they are not affected? Let's hear what you all think.

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
(Revelation 6:5)

Contrary to popular modern acceptance, the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse are not minions of the 'anti-christ' but rather are the manifestation of God's work in the world toward gathering His people. I can explain more about that later, but for right now I can point out some things about the third seal's horseman, riding on a black horse and carrying a pair of balances.

* The color black signifies both mourning and judgment--and the idea of God's judgment is often expressed as a 'dark' concept:
Exodus 12:12
Psalms 97:2
Amos 5:15-18
Zephaniah chapter 1
All three chapters in the book of Joel offer an excellent illustration of Divine Righteous Judgment accompanied by a dark atmosphere.

Christ says that when He departs the Earth, darkness will return:

Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
(John 12:35)

In the 16th chapter of John, Jesus speaks of his impending death and departure--which will make it possible for the Holy Spirit to be dispatched. One of the Spirit's roles will be judgment. But the Spirit arriving means Christ has departed, and Jesus warns them that they will have sorrow, and surely they will mourn!

Jesus said He came not to judge the world but to save the world. The Spirit coming after His work of salvation is the true judge--and the exact mechanism of judgment takes place every single day since He left His teachings to His disciples: all who hear and believe, and thus follow His commandments will be judged favorably, and those who reject those who come in His name will be liable for punishment in the end. ( Not 'hell' or eternal torment of some sort--just corrective and restorative discipline of some sort by way of God's purifying Spirit, which is said to be a consuming fire).

And so the Spirit comes riding a black horse of mourning and judgment, carrying a just set of balances in His hand--because only God's judgment is righteous and perfect.
Leviticus 19:35-37
Proverbs chapter 11
Ezekial 45:10

Judgment is by weight of the soul upon the balances of the LORD:
Proverbs 16:2
Job 31:6
Daniel chapter 5 (the handwriting on the wall to Beltashazzar: 'You are weighed in the balances and are found wanting.' )

Barley is harvested before the wheat--and was not as choice of a grain as wheat was considered to be. In the book of Ruth it is representative of gentiles (Ruth was a Moabitess) just as wheat is representative of Israel (such as in the parable of the wheat and the tares).
In 2Kings 7:1, Elisha declares that the LORD values fine flour at twice the price of Barley.

The idea of the beam between the balance might also represent a union, a joining, such as of the gentiles into the Israel of God--and the population of gentiles in the world was far greater, so it is an image of there being 2/3 gentiles for every native born Israelite entering His Kingdom.

The oil and the wine represent those who God has sent to this world for His work--the oil represents the annointed ones, such as the prophets and apostles. Wine represents mortal souls (water) who have been washed in the blood of Christ and quickened with the Spirit to become Living Souls (wine--the product of the harvest of the vineyard, after it has passed through the 'winepress of God's wrath'--which is actually the persecution and suffering that all true followers of our LORD endure in this world--it is a good thing to pass through the winepress of God's wrath!)

The oil and the wine must not be harmed or touched in the judgment days--because they have already been judged favorably. They are 'immune', so to speak, proven and refined by the Fire (which previously came on the red horse, but that's saved for another post), and are now servants/slaves of God.