Finally, liberal MSM admits "collusion" doesn't exist

a reply to: JBurns

Long as your at least attempting legit counterpoints feel free to slip in the random ad hominem against me lol...

I just hate when people say “nah uh!” And the feel like they “nailed it” And act like that’s a legit rebuttal.

a reply to: JBurns

No she hired an established opposition research firm, at was previously employed by the gop....


Trump ATLEAST held a meeting with Russian spy’s..

a reply to: proximo

I think it’s a fair analogy and I think it is fair to say that bank robbery and helping an adversary government swing an PRESIDENTIAL election...

TREASON always carries the worst penalties.. and I know it’s not our legal definition of treason, but it is the layman’s term treason..


Getting dirt on your opponent from a foreign government isn’t normal.. it might even be a unique action..

Like I said if me and you were to do the same we are made an example of.. for sure.


I’ll read the emails you posted in a few.. working.

This is all quite reminiscent of Game of Thrones, when Cersei Lannister brought in the High Sparrow to destroy House Tyrell and then was usurped by the same faction she introduced.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat


Thank you for the kind words my friend, and I apologize for losing my cool there it is something I have been working hard at avoiding, trying to keep analysis and critical thinking at the forefront We can definitely chalk it up to a Venti Starbucks

I don't know where I stand investigation wise, I wouldn't say it is a nothing burger either. I mean, there are (to me at least) clearly at a minimum some percent of people in our government abusing power and engaging in corrupt practices. I think these investigations should if anything continue and intensify, because corrupt officials go against everything we are supposed to stand for in the USA. If that just so happens to include the person I voted for [for] President, then so be it. I think Director Mueller's tenure with the FBI exemplifies his character and integrity, and was really a genius choice to lead the investigation

I saw all of those headlines about the 2016 (D) primary, and I was a little surprised myself. I am not sure if it has always been this way, to me at least I remember things gradually slipping in this direction over several decades It seems *something* (other than "We the people") has more control of our government than we do, and it has just been getting more deeply "embedded" within that structure. Sadly, it hasn't seemed to matter whether there was a (D) or (R) in the Oval office, this inexplicable agenda keeps finding its way through - and it appears to be an agenda of public corruption and personal enrichment at the expense of voters and taxpayers (and everyone who lives here).

I have to go with you on that one though, it may just be that the nature of politics breeds corrupt practices but I don't think it is sending a very good message to voters. The DNC highlights kind of show Bernie fans (I was one of those Bernie voters - my youngest daughter dragged me to a rally, and I loved his enthusiasm/energy) that their votes didn't matter. Now I don't believe any kind of laws were broken there (at least IMHO), but it is kind of a slap in the face to everyone who donated their time or money to Bernie's campaign (and cast their vote) only to find out it may not have even been taken seriously.

Sadly, that isn't the only corrupt act from that 2016 election. From what the indictments have shown us, at least a handful of Republican operatives have been caught up in foreign influence schemes (Ukrainian, Russian at a minimum) and may have also violated reporting laws. It appears the unscrupulous nature of DC politics knows no limits and sometimes it can be exasperating.

My youngest daughter is getting into politics for the first time in her life, and I think she has come up with a lot of the same questions you wonder about Beef. I wish I (or anyone) had good answers to them, as it seems like for decades people in this country have had a running joke about how corrupt our government was. Now I don't care whether the clean-up crew has a (D) (R) or (I) in front of their name, but I think it is high time Washington learns it is subject to the same laws as everyone else.

Either way, thanks again for the kind words and as always looking forward to further discussion with you in respect to this matter (and other issues we all face in this country/world).

Thanks buddy,

JB

a reply to: JoshuaCox


True enough

However, I am not defending the GOP operatives that hired the firm either. IMHO, they are just as responsible for the irresponsible document. If the claims in the document would've been vetted or somehow substantiated, it would be entirely different. I must ask, where do you think the dirt from the dossier came from? Unless Steele just invented it (which even I doubt), he would've had to have gotten it from foreign citizens (maybe even foreign government officials/agents). Of course even if he did, I don't believe it is a crime (although I confess it may be improper/unethical)

But if anything it seems (at least to me) like a political hit piece. I also apologize for any ad hominem attacks I made against you, JC.

No hard feelings?

a reply to: JBurns

You say irresponsible dossier as if it has been thoroughly debunked , and it has not...

Sure the “trump likes hookers to pee on him” seems unlikely, however the rich and famous are known for their crazy sexual appetites so not even remotely impossible.

The ONLY people who are saying it has been debunked is trump and his cult members, such as Alex Jones, hannity and Laura Ingram..

None of the hard news people (even on Fox) will make that claim.


(Off topic, but watch Fox News some time.. their opinion guys all bend over backwards to support him no matter what , but fox’s hard news desk is always negative...

Why?? because Fox is against him?? No, obviously not..

It’s because all the hard news about trump is negative..

He gets caught lying and telling fake historical tales constantly. )

Back on topic...

Fusion gps is specifically an opposition research firm.. that is what they do.. That is in no way equal to meeting with a foreign adversary’s spys...


Also you mentioned how the dossier was irresponsible since it is unconfirmed.. I agree it would be nice if only confirmed info made the rounds..

However look at just the laundry list Of unsubstantiated claims trump has made about his opponents..


Trump is by far the worst offender of unsubstantiated allegations..

1) Cruz’s dad was involved in jfk’s assasination.

2) pizza gate

3) Benghazi

4) he brought 3 known frauds to the presidential debate to falsely accuse bill..and I would beseech you to research the people accusing bill of sexual assault.. it’s obviously garbage..

5) hillary’s Emails

6) comey and muller being out to get him..


I was actually on the trump train until he brought the 3 frauds to the debate.. it actually made me angry in real life after I researched their claims.

Talk about disgusting and it lowered the bar for everyone...

Imho the media decided that if trump could parade known liars at the debate, then they (the media) could allow anyone willing to lie on trump on the air...

This started a buffet of false sexual assault allegations that just turned my stomach, and kicked me off the trump train for life..

Trump knew those women were lying and still did it.. no one who has ever read their stories would EVER buy it..



That lady

a reply to: JBurns

PS you haven’t as hominem me, just giving you permission lol.. least not that I noticed..


That stuff never bothers me.. just actually make a logical point along with it is all I ask :p

a reply to: JBurns

TYT did a breakdown on the primary that spelled it out after Brazil’s article a couple days ago..

Appearently, the DNC was indebt to their eyeballs and hillary stepped in a footed the bill. This gave her campaign de facto control of the entire DNC..

I have not heard of any specific claims of corruption YET, but this ain’t good..

The second you have superdelegates that ship really sails.. they were put in place SPECIFICALLY if the country choose the wrong nomination.. soo...


I have no problem with hillary being called corrupt, but I find people pretending she uniquely corrupt dishonest..

Hillary is status quo in a broken system, not the most corrupt person in a good system.

a reply to: JoshuaCox


You are right, of course, that it has not been thoroughly debunked. It hasn't been substantiated either, which is the only reason I am arguing against saying the claims are true. From a legal perspective, you are innocent of an accusation until evidence is provided of guilt, but naturally that doesn't affect public/personal opinion.

I also believe some of the allegations seem unlikely, but like you I never rule out anything entirely when it comes to the elite/politicians (some of them are pretty odd, Lol). That being said, if the allegations of criminal activity turn out to be true, I will be one of the biggest proponents of impeachment. I personally have no tolerance for corruption, especially within the government we are all funding with vast sums of our money taken out of every purchase we make/paycheck we receive.

It would also be nice if only vetted/substantiated information hit the public megaphone, and I think publishing unsubstantiated information (of such a serious nature) is a pretty dishonest thing to do, in general. That being said, I think Trump is also wrong for the various false claims he has made over the last 1-1 1/2 years also. For instance in his last interview he stated the DNC's alleged rigging of the primary was "illegal" when in reality it is likely not illegal. It is unethical and probably goes against the principles of actual democracy, but in my humble opinion it doesn't rise to criminal conduct. That is to say that I can't produce any example from the U.S. code where such conduct constitutes a criminal act.

I know the President isn't perfect, and I know he has also done some dishonest things (this must be a DC thing, I guess). I also believe, in my heart of hearts, that he has our nation's best interests in his heart and is at least trying to do the right thing for our country. That is my hope anyhow, as anything less than a marked improvement in the living conditions for the American people will most probably result in a failed re-election campaign in 2020.

We are facing some serious threats at home and abroad, and the infrastructure/economy are two things that need almost constant improvement/attention to keep competitive and healthy. I think we are also to a point where things like automation and energy start playing a larger role in politics, and I think his business experience makes him uniquely qualified to view these topics from a non-partisan set of eyes (heck, he's an Indy at heart. Most GOP establishment guys can't stand him).

Maybe I am misjudging the President, I don't deny that he hasn't always made the right choices or said the right things. But it is my hope that he will continue to learn and grow into his new job (far more important than any other job he's done) in a way that will benefit this country

If I am wrong, then I will stand corrected as I did when I voted for Pres. Obama twice. He was inspiring, and gave me hope that change (some change, ANY change) could happen in Washington. Unfortunately, whether due to obstruction or incompetence (or both), Obama didn't bring the change I had hoped for. To me at least it seemed like more of the same old song and dance, with a few notable exceptions.

I guess you could say I am hoping for the best in this situation. Either way, when the investigation is finished we will hopefully know for a fact what is true and what isn't. From that point, it should be more clear who is pulling certain strings and for what purpose. Whatever happens, I hope we can get through it as 1 nation and 1 people

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: JBurns

PS you haven’t as hominem me, just giving you permission lol.. least not that I noticed..


That stuff never bothers me.. just actually make a logical point along with it is all I ask :p

Same, but I appreciate it nonetheless

I will do my best, as I feel we get much more accomplished through discussion instead of argument. I wish I could claim credit for this next sentence, but I read it somewhere else on ATS. In that post, the OP stated that they felt our perception had been weaponized, and was actively being used against us toward some end. At times, it certainly feels as though that is the case. Although I do not make any excuse for insulting or personally attacking others - I am responsible for my own words/actions - it does seem that certain topics/events make us all unable to effectively communicate with eachother without getting angry or distracted.

a reply to: JBurns

No worries, it happens to the best of us...glad to see someone ‘owning’ their occasional misgivings — speaks to solid character.

With respect to the rest of your take, I have very little to add...pretty spot-on. Definitely interesting times to those of us who are paying attention and can see it for what it is (or at least as best we can). Look forward to any of your future threads/takes! TGIF!!

Have a good weekend

a reply to: JBurns

Honestly he might do the most help by being terrible..

We never make the kinda changes we gotta make without a whole lotta pain first..

I had high hopes for trump too..


I hoped he would come i an go mainstream. I thought he was the one person who could control the gop enough to pass things like single payer and such..

However that’s not what we have gotten..

First thing he rapes the epa.. guarentee that’s not remembered well...

Plus imho automation take almost all the jobs tomorrow...

Just self driving cars kills 30% of American jobs yesterday..

All the cashiers, severs and such will be kiosks , yesterday..

And there is absolutely NO Industry set to replace them..

Only programming and content creation are expanding and those are inherently low labor force high output..


And a universal income is the ONLY FIx IVE EVER HEARD..

How painful do things get befor the gop is cool with single payer and universal income???