Breaking: First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation

originally posted by: Wayfarer
And all the Republican counter spin action memo items are flimsy at best (and most likely nothingburgers). This has been a horrifically damning turn of events and I think is the cause of the tepid interaction of our more ardent Trump supporters here on this forum today.

The denial in the face of the facts revealed today really does tell us just how deeply many people have deluded themselves. That's the danger of spreading lies for corporate masters on a daily basis.

a reply to: Gryphon66

For the record I never asked if you were mad and to be honest could care less if you are. You asked a question and it blew up in your face so you are now trying to change your intent by running in circles while claiming collusion is a crime when its not.

That is your problem.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Gryphon66

Now maybe you can provide us with the criminal statue for collusion and then show us how anyone colluded with russian agents.

They can't, which is why they're once again lashing out like this.

Waking up to the list of charges had to be one of the most disappointing things a leftist can face. Everything they've believed for the last year, and put so much hope and faith in was all taken away from them.

None of the charges relate to this so-called made up law about "collusion." They ALL have to do with (mostly older) technical violations, and some serious things like money laundering and conspiracy. None of those have ANYTHING TO DO with the "collusion" narrative pushed by the leftists.

Gryphon, I bet today is pretty painful huh buddy? It'll be OK, now that you know Trump is here to stay (and probably looking at re-election) you can start focusing on reality instead of this make-believe treason/sedition/collusion/impeachment nonsense your masters have been pushing.

No evidence, no crime = Mueller isn't investigating non-crimes, obviously. Based on the indictments, he's investigating very real crimes. Those same investigations will, of course, need to be held for Hillary & Co. But for now, we should allow Mueller to finish his impecible investigation and follow the evidence wherever it may lead.

Conservatives: we scored a very, very large victory today. The truth is finally outing, and the investigate is NOTHING LIKE what the leftists have been clamoring on about for the last year. Absolutely nothing they've predicted has come to fruition, not one single thing (least of which Election result 2016).

To the discussion at large, as several seem to be wrapped up in their own confusion at the moment ...

It has been stated here, repeatedly today, that collusion is not a crime.

Yet, we still see those on the right-wing attempting to shunt the facts of the indictments and information on convictions today of Trump Campaign members various crimes to a suggestion that the Clinton Campaign, or the Democratic National Committee has committed any number of absurd "crimes" (most of which aren't on the one ridiculous laundry list provided) ...

So, if directly meeting with Russian agents in order to help them undermine the General Election 2016 is not a crime, what possible crime is Clinton/DNC guilty of in regard to paying an attorney who engaged a contracting firm that engaged a well-known contractor to produce raw intelligence on Mr. Trump?

Is it a crime or is it not a crime?

a reply to: JBurns

Very well said.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
To the discussion at large, as several seem to be wrapped up in their own confusion at the moment ...

It has been stated here, repeatedly today, that collusion is not a crime.

Yet, we still see those on the right-wing attempting to shunt the facts of the indictments and information on convictions today of Trump Campaign members various crimes to a suggestion that the Clinton Campaign, or the Democratic National Committee has committed any number of absurd "crimes" (most of which aren't on the one ridiculous laundry list provided) ...

So, if directly meeting with Russian agents in order to help them undermine the General Election 2016 is not a crime, what possible crime is Clinton/DNC guilty of in regard to paying an attorney who engaged a contracting firm that engaged a well-known contractor to produce raw intelligence on Mr. Trump?

Is it a crime or is it not a crime?

Show me where anyone from trumps team was found guilty of meeting with russians to undermine an election

Oh and Hillarys team and the DNC did not commit a crime paying steele to get dirt on Trump from russia; at least not because of that action.

There may have been a crime of not disclosing their payments of it, but the "collusion" itself is not a crime.

Now if Obama and the FBI used that info for fisa's then there is a potential crime.

Today is an amazing day overall I think we all have to admit.

We have seen direct evidence of the success of the Special Investigation headed up by Bob Mueller, and this is only "Day One."

Two alleged Trump campaign criminals are indicted, and we find out another Trump associate has already been convicted.

The best thing here is that these are just "warning shots" across someone's bow.

Today is only the beginning of a hopeful restoration of faith in our legal system, in our institutions like the FBI, etc. despite the best and most treasonous efforts of many to drive division between Americans.

a reply to: JBurns

The hilarious thing to me is that many people against trump, exspecially on the media, are just digging the hole even deeper.

They are yelling about how could trump hire manafort, doesnt thios show poor judgement? (yes to me it does btw)

They are saying meetong with russians to get dirt is such a big deal.

They are saying that possibly having russian influences this close to our system of goverance is horrible.

And now when it comes out that Manafort was actually charged for doing this with the Podesta group and using Hillary as a conduit for russian influence, they will look even worse.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Today is an amazing day overall I think we all have to admit.

We have seen direct evidence of the success of the Special Investigation headed up by Bob Mueller, and this is only "Day One."

Two alleged Trump campaign criminals are indicted, and we find out another Trump associate has already been convicted.

The best thing here is that these are just "warning shots" across someone's bow.

Today is only the beginning of a hopeful restoration of faith in our legal system, in our institutions like the FBI, etc. despite the best and most treasonous efforts of many to drive division between Americans.

Exactly! Can't wait to see what's uncovered from the investigation into The Podesta Group!

Interesting bit on the convicted Trump Campaign operative ... from the New York Times

WASHINGTON — A professor with close ties to the Russian government told an adviser to Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign in April 2016 that Moscow had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails,” according to court documents unsealed Monday.

The adviser, George Papadopoulos, has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about that conversation. The plea represents the most explicit evidence that the Trump campaign was aware that the Russian government was trying to help Mr. Trump and that the campaign was eager to accept that help.

As part of that effort, the Russian government hacked Democratic accounts and released a trove of embarrassing emails related to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. The Trump campaign has repeatedly denied any inside knowledge about that.

ETA: Someone had lied overtly earlier here and stated that Papadopoulos wasn't a member of the Trump campaign ...

Mr. Papadopoulos was one of a small group of foreign policy advisers that Mr. Trump announced in March 2016. Another of the advisers, Carter Page, has met with the F.B.I. about his own meetings with Russians.

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Today is an amazing day overall I think we all have to admit.

We have seen direct evidence of the success of the Special Investigation headed up by Bob Mueller, and this is only "Day One."

Two alleged Trump campaign criminals are indicted, and we find out another Trump associate has already been convicted.

The best thing here is that these are just "warning shots" across someone's bow.

Today is only the beginning of a hopeful restoration of faith in our legal system, in our institutions like the FBI, etc. despite the best and most treasonous efforts of many to drive division between Americans.

Exactly! Can't wait to see what's uncovered from the investigation into The Podesta Group!

You mean you want Mueller to investigate the groups he outlined in the indictment?

Why.... YOU TRAITOR!!!

a reply to: Gryphon66

I hope Mueller is up to the task. A lot of that cleaning up and restoration, will involve indicting people that he has worked with and for, over the past 10 years.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
So, if directly meeting with Russian agents in order to help them undermine the General Election 2016 is not a crime, what possible crime is Clinton/DNC guilty of in regard to paying an attorney who engaged a contracting firm that engaged a well-known contractor to produce raw intelligence on Mr. Trump?

Is it a crime or is it not a crime?

No it is not a crime UNLESS:
* - you are involved in an investigation and are asked a direct question centering on that meeting and you lie.
* - you are involved in an investigation and are asked a direct question centering on that meeting and you fail to disclose pertinent facts (lie by omission).

As we have been trying to get you to understand the meetings themselves are not violations of the law. Lying about those meetings to federal investigators is the crime.

The point many of us are trying to get you and others to understand is:
A - there is no such thing as a crime of collusion.

That was a construct of the left to link Russia and Trump together and then repeat it ad nauseam in a vain and futile effort to somehow rationalize their loss to Trump.

The comments by Joy Reid, and to an extent your own posts, is the glaring problem. If Trump does it its a crime. If Clinton does it its opposition research and not a crime.

You understand it now?

a reply to: Grambler

When Trump was looking for dirt, why not go through a reputable intelligence gathering firm and get his intel through the work of a former mi-6 agent who’s highly regarded by U.S. intelligence agencies and British intelligence...?

Why did trump’s campaign choose to deal directly with Russians and why did Trump surround himself with foreign agents with secret connections to Russia?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Gryphon66

I hope Mueller is up to the task. A lot of that cleaning up and restoration, will involve indicting people that he has worked with and for, over the past 10 years.

Apparently there are many who believe Mr. Mueller is indeed up to the task ... including Rep. Trey Gowdy and Senator Chuck Grassley as noted recently.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Interesting bit on the convicted Trump Campaign operative ... from the New York Times

thank you for proving my point about repeating ad nauseam a non existent Trump-Russia collusion link. you leave out the persons name and instead call him a Trump campaign operative even though the indictments arent related to Trump or his campaign.

and the left wonders why it cant win elections and why people dont trust them.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Today is an amazing day overall I think we all have to admit.

We have seen direct evidence of the success of the Special Investigation headed up by Bob Mueller, and this is only "Day One."

Two alleged Trump campaign criminals are indicted, and we find out another Trump associate has already been convicted.

The best thing here is that these are just "warning shots" across someone's bow.

Today is only the beginning of a hopeful restoration of faith in our legal system, in our institutions like the FBI, etc. despite the best and most treasonous efforts of many to drive division between Americans.

Exactly! Can't wait to see what's uncovered from the investigation into The Podesta Group!

You mean you want Mueller to investigate the groups he outlined in the indictment?

Why.... YOU TRAITOR!!!

Considering Mueller has a massive conflict of interest he should not be investigating either side of this.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: Grambler

When Trump was looking for dirt, why not go through a reputable intelligence gathering firm and get his intel through the work of a former mi-6 agent who’s highly regarded by U.S. intelligence agencies and British intelligence...?

Why did trump’s campaign choose to deal directly with Russians and why did Trump surround himself with foreign agents with secret connections to Russia?

So dumb.

Why does that make a difference?

Perhaps he could have went to a reputable firm like the Podesta group to work with russians.

a reply to: Xcathdra

A bit more to address the most pernicious lies in your post and then I'm done with you; I refuse to interact with those who repeatedly post dishonesty.

You are stating an obvious fact that lying to Federal authorities is a crime. You are not and have not stated who you think lied to Federal authorities from the Clinton Campaign or the DNC. If you have evidence beyond your innuendo and empty rhetoric, post it for all here to see.

I'm done with you.