Breaking: First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation

If the existence of Congressional investigations are to be the hallmark of truth, there have been four ongoing Congressional investigations into Russian meddling with our election processes in 2016 for months, yet, these have been dismissed routinely by the Trump faithful. There is either a basic dishonesty or ignorance going on in this regard.

There is zero evidence that anyone in the Obama Administration illegally "colluded with Russia" regarding uranium. The uranium in question was already owned by a Canadian company. The US IMPORTS 83% of used uranium from other countries with 25% already coming from Russian and Kazakstan. The alleged "Uranium 1 scandal" is political theatre or "fake news" as Trump cultists like to call it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
If the existence of Congressional investigations are to be the hallmark of truth, there have been four ongoing Congressional investigations into Russian meddling with our election processes in 2016 for months, yet, these have been dismissed routinely by the Trump faithful. There is either a basic dishonesty or ignorance going on in this regard.

There is zero evidence that anyone in the Obama Administration illegally "colluded with Russia" regarding uranium. The uranium in question was already owned by a Canadian company. The US IMPORTS 83% of used uranium from other countries with 25% already coming from Russian and Kazakstan. The alleged "Uranium 1 scandal" is political theatre or "fake news" as Trump cultists like to call it.

Nobody denies there are investigations into Russian interference, and many conservative posters have acknowledged in this thread that needs to be done. The basic dishonesty here is yours.

As for the uranium deal, how much we import/export is absolutely irrelevant to whether it was legit or not. The people focusing on whether it was 20% or 11% are mistaken. The amount doesn't matter, at all. If something corrupt was done, it's wrong no matter how much uranium it was. We'll see what both investigations come up with.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Since none of what is in the dossier has ever been verified I look forward to your response that it has.

I thought you said the FBI independently verified parts of it to use as part of the warrant request?

So which is it, unverified or verified?

The woman who won the popular vote for President of the United States tried to warn us about this fake president / russian puppet.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
The woman who won the popular vote for President of the United States tried to warn us about this fake president / russian puppet. The people heard her and they voted for Hillary. The uneducated misogynists voted for the puppet.

If you think misogyny had anything to do with why she lost you are hopelessly brainwashed. Sorry for insulting your religion.

There are many here in this thread who have directly denied any Russian interference in our elections. It is routine.

There is zero evidence that any wrongdoing was committed by anyone involved in the CFIUS decision regarding Uranium One in 2010. This is nothing more than lies being dredged up because there are indictments coming from the Mueller investigation. That's all it is.

Or are we to believe that four or five long-standing fringe theories about Obama/Clinton/Mueller etc. just happened to surface the week before the information about coming indictments was made available.

No, we are not to believe that. That is a lie and those who are promulgating this absurdity with no evidence are liars.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So your theory is the scrutiny on the uranium deal and the DNC/Clinton involvement with this dossier started last week because conservatives got told ahead of time there were charges coming this Monday?

That's ridiculous and you know it. Got any more fairy tales to reinforce your false worldview?

a reply to: Sillyolme
Indictments are delivered from the GJ right to the judge where it would then be sealed.

Alex Jones is stating it's Manafort and his indictment is cover for Democrat/DNC Russia crimes.

www.infowars.com...

NavyJack confirming what he's been told in confidence (And also stating he generally doesn't trust Alex Jones info):

twitter.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh boy. You are one lazy debater. Did you just link be a bunch of crap you probably haven't read with the expectation that I was going to waste a bunch of time debunking three would be debunkings while you sat back and twiddled your thumbs? GTFO.

If you can't be bothered to read, process and argue the points then why should I have to? Always shifting that burden eh? I'll play along.

Forbes opinion piece:

The Orbis report claims, that as the election neared (July 2016), Igor Sechin, Putin’s right-hand man and CEO of Rosneft (Russia’s national oil company) offered Trump a deal that defies belief. I quote:

“Speaking to a trusted compatriot in mid-October 2015, a close associate of Rosneft President and PUTIN ally Igor SECHIN elaborated on the reported secret meeting between the latter and Carter PAGE, of US Republican presidential candidate's foreign policy team, in Moscow in July 2016. The secret had been confirmed to him/her by a senior member of staff, in addition to the Rosneft President himself…Sechin’s associate said that the Rosneft President was so keen to lift personal and corporate Western sanctions imposed on the company, that he offered PAGE associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatized) stake in Rosneft in return PAGE had expressed interest and confirmed that were TRUMP elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted.”

This story is utter nonsense, not worthy of a wacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion.

To offer Trump either the entirety of, or a brokerage commission on, the market value of 19.5% of Rosneft shares—even a 6 percent commission on $12 billion worth of Rosneft shares would amount to an astonishing $720 million—would deplete the cash that Putin desperately needed for military spending and budget deficits, all in return for a promise to lift sanctions if—and what a big “if”—Trump were elected. Rosneft, as a public company, would have to conceal that the U.S. president was a party to this major transaction. This remarkable secret-of-secrets seems to be bandied about to an Orbis “trusted compatriot," a senior member of Sechin’s staff, and disclosed by Sechin himself. I guess there are a lot of loose lips in Rosneft offices.

First off, the author misstates the claim, the offer wasn't specifically to Trump but rather "PAGE associates." That's also not disproving anything, it's simply saying that it's "not worthy of a wacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion."

What happened less than two months after the dossier starts making the rounds in October?

Rosneft sold 19.5% of its shares on December 7th, 2016 in a deal announced by Putin and Sechin. So in fact, a month after the election, a tad over 19% of Rosneft was privatized.

Reuters - How Russia sold its oil jewel: without saying who bought it

Startling coincidence? Super expensive ploy by Russia to make the dossier seem credible to foment turmoil?

The blog post really takes the effing cake though. LMAO. Did you read this at all before you linked it?

#2. Even a quick look at the dossier raises a lot of suspicions. One, there is no real letterhead with a name of any specific corporation/group. Instead, it has a generic title of “Company Intelligence Report.

#3. There is clear evidence that the dossier was written as a prank. For example, one paragraph asserts something so preposterous, I will translate that into a mini narrative.

#3. There is some evidence that the origin of this dossier was a prank. People on 4Chan – a wild west of social media – were talking about fooling the media with a crazy report on Trump and sex orgy even before the election.

(yeah, he has two versions of #3 because he's... thorough. Awesome source btw)

Essentially this one one of the early reflex "debunkings" you were probably super happy when BuzzFeed published the dossier because then you could be one of those people who went around saying it was all a hoax created by 4chan. Saw that one a lot on ATS at the time. Of course, nobody is claiming that *now* because we know where it came from.

The Newsweek piece is a bit more involved and I'm not going through 13 points and discussing each one in turn, as I've already said. I will point out something curious about item #10:

10. The existence of a “Russian dossier or ‘kompromat’ on Hillary Clinton” is confirmed by “Source B…S/he confided in a trusted compatriot that it had been collated by Department K of the FSB for many years.”

This makes no sense. The FSB’s Directorate K is one of the most controversial departments of Russia’s security elite, and its remit translates as “counter intelligence in financial services.” Directorate K has been involved directly and indirectly in some of the dirtiest scandals of recent times—including the plundering of Hermitage Capital and the murder of their lawyer Sergei Magnitsky in 2009. But it has nothing to do with gathering intelligence on foreign leaders—that’s the SVR, the Foreign Intelligence Service, and FAPSI, the electronic eavesdropping department.

Now this was published in January, before anyone knew about the Don Jr meeting. Guess who brought what?

Talking Points Brought to Trump Tower Meeting Were Shared With Kremlin

But interviews and records show that in the months before the meeting, Ms. Veselnitskaya had discussed the allegations with one of Russia’s most powerful officials, the prosecutor general, Yuri Y. Chaika. And the memo she brought with her closely followed a document that Mr. Chaika’s office had given to an American congressman two months earlier, incorporating some paragraphs verbatim.

The memo that Ms. Veselnitskaya brought to the Trump Tower meeting alleged that Ziff Brothers Investments, an American firm, had illegally purchased shares in a Russian company and evaded tens of millions of dollars of Russian taxes. The company was the financial vehicle of three billionaire brothers, two of them major donors to Democratic candidates including Mrs. Clinton. By implication, Ms. Veselnitskaya, said, those political contributions were tainted by “stolen” money. Kremlin officials viewed the charges as extremely significant. The Ziff brothers had invested in funds managed by William F. Browder, an American-born financier and fierce Kremlin foe. Mr. Browder was the driving force behind a 2012 law passed by Congress imposing sanctions on Russian officials for human rights abuses.

In the past week, Ms. Veselnitskaya’s allegations — that major Democratic donors were guilty of financial fraud and tax evasion — have been embraced at the highest levels of the Russian government. President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia repeated her charges at length last week at an annual conference of Western academics. A state-run television network recently made them the subject of two special reports, featuring interviews with Ms. Veselnitskaya and Mr. Chaika.

So what did she bring with her? What had the Kremlin been pushing around? Exactly the sort of thing that Directorate K would be behind. You know, the stuff Directorate K would compile?

The partisan breakdown has rocked all but one committee investigating allegations of Russian meddling in the 2016 elections, including the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, the House Intelligence Committee and the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The exception is the Senate Intelligence Committee.

The breakdown also threatens to push the majority of congressional probes into Russia meddling into a political sideshow. It comes just days before Silicon Valley tech giants are scheduled to publicly testify on Capitol Hill about the details of Russia’s disinformation campaign — and just months before lawmakers want to deliver their findings, in part to help the public avoid a similar crisis during the 2018 election

The Washington Post

originally posted by: Kettu
Pretzels and Kool Aid, the official food and beverage of ATS this weekend.

And this isn't just confined to ATS either. Across the internet I'm seeing conservatives and alt-right types declaring that Muller's chargers are actually going after Clinton & associates...

...because someone on 4Chan said so...

...the same 4Chan that claimed to be the author of the famous dossier....

Yep, that totally checks out. /s

ell this conservative would be shocked if it is a clinton connected person.

My moneys on Manafort, maybe page or flynn.

a reply to: Xcathdra

(continued)

Interesting that the Newsweek author even makes mention that:

"Directorate K has been involved directly and indirectly in some of the dirtiest scandals of recent times—including the plundering of Hermitage Capital and the murder of their lawyer Sergei Magnitsky in 2009."

And we all know now that Veselnitskaya is a lawyer for a company suspected of laundering money from the Hermitage Capital "scandal" and was in the US trying on an anti-Browder, anti-Magnitsky Act crusade.

This is the point where I should Google "dossier confirmed" and link the first results and then tell you how I'm looking forward to your response.

However, if you want to pick a few items that actually debunk the dossier. You know, things that are known to be factually inaccurate or ruled out, I'll be happy to take them under consideration.

a reply to: theantediluvian

O think you are right that the entire dossier is not debunked.

Some has been proven false, but other parts are just unverified.

Can we at least agree that it would have been very troubling if the FBI used this for a fisa warrant IF they didnt very carefully corborate the info first?

I mean, the threshold for fisa warrants to survey memebrs of a Presidential campaign should have to be extremely high, especially if you know the evidence you are using came from the Kremlin and were paid for by the other candidate.

Thats why it is so important for the FBI to be honest with congress and tell them exactly what it was used for.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Spot on. You are doing what we all need to be doing: speaking truth to lies from Trump's puppets.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
The woman who won the popular vote for President of the United States tried to warn us about this fake president / russian puppet.

Thanks!

More proof Hillary was using the allegations from Kremlin collusion to influence the election!

There is zero doubt that the awareness of the coming indictments would have been shared with Mueller's chain-of-command in the DOJ some time ago (likely just before October 17.)

These lying efforts are not directed at Clinton, Obama and the rest primarily, as that is ludicrous.

The efforts are intended for one purpose only: to discredit the FBI and Special Counsel Mueller.

This is a time when all Americans should stand up for our justice system and stop letting the lying being promoted here go unchallenged by quoting facts and pointing out dishonesty whenever possible.

a reply to: Gryphon66

"Cult 45" is right on schedule ! Discredit Mueller. In all fairness, they will be running out of options, and it's all they have left.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Serious question.

Look at what you say here.

What happened less than two months after the dossier starts making the rounds in October?

Rosneft sold 19.5% of its shares on December 7th, 2016 in a deal announced by Putin and Sechin. So in fact, a month after the election, a tad over 19% of Rosneft was privatized.

Reuters - How Russia sold its oil jewel: without saying who bought it

Startling coincidence? Super expensive ploy by Russia to make the dossier seem credible to foment turmoil?

Why is this accepted as possible proof of something or worthy of investigation.

But an FBI informant that was key in bringing down criminals said that Russian interests were bribing Hillary to try to push through uranium one, then we see Hillarys foundation getting millions of dollars byu these players, Bill meeting putin and then getting a $500,000 speaking fee from russia a couple of weeks later, and then Hillarys assistant ends up voting to push uraniu,m one through, thats all just hogwash.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
There is zero doubt that the awareness of the coming indictments would have been shared with Mueller's chain-of-command in the DOJ some time ago (likely just before October 17.)

These lying efforts are not directed at Clinton, Obama and the rest primarily, as that is ludicrous.

The efforts are intended for one purpose only: to discredit the FBI and Special Counsel Mueller.

This is a time when all Americans should stand up for our justice system and stop letting the lying being promoted here go unchallenged by quoting facts and pointing out dishonesty whenever possible.

Real americans should discuss corruption aon all sides, not refuse to look at crimnes on their side.

Doing that makes someone a partisan hack not interested in the truth.