Why the Dossier may be the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Painterz
Correct me if I'm wrong though, this revelation doesn't demonstrate the contents of the dossier are false, simply who paid for the research to be conducted?


And we always knew that somebody paid for the research to be conducted, and it always seemed a reasonable bet it would be a political opponent of Trump?

What we are witnessing is the marketing of a counter-narrative. Something for the right to rally around and believe in lieu of the truth.

I believe the Left actually believes this. It's not surprising after having been spoon-fed this 'Super-sized, Happy Meal' narrative for so long.

Unfortunately for them...we have have actual evidence in this case.

Why is the FISA warrant considered so suspect? Certainly not because it was precipitated by info gathered by Fusion GPS, a legal U.S. company tasked with gathering intel? It simply provided the prima facia. Why was it an abuse if the warrant required additional proof to be granted?

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Painterz
Correct me if I'm wrong though, this revelation doesn't demonstrate the contents of the dossier are false, simply who paid for the research to be conducted?


And we always knew that somebody paid for the research to be conducted, and it always seemed a reasonable bet it would be a political opponent of Trump?

You are correct. David Corn reported most of this a lonnnng time ago in Mother Jones. What we are witnessing is the marketing of a counter-narrative. Something for the right to rally around and believe in lieu of the truth.

Bingo. That is exactly what this is.

I've noticed that the FISA issue has become a focal point for many. People surrounding Trump, including Trump Jr, have put themselves in a very difficult position and an easy way to deflect is to suggest the dossier is 100% fake, and may have been the sole piece of "evidence" used to get those warrants.

That gives way to conspiracies involving the FBI, Obama and claims that they over-stepped their authority to go after political opponents.

It's a very easy and convenient way to change people's focus that does not require any evidence to be presented, because it is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

a reply to: Grambler

This si the precedent that has been set, and why we need to hold accountable the people who did it.

No. This is not the precedent that has been set.

What you posted is merely a theory with no evidence to corroborate your theory.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Why is the FISA warrant considered so suspect? Certainly not because it was precipitated by info gathered by Fusion GPS, a legal U.S. company tasked with gathering intel? It simply provided the prima facia. The warrant required additional proof to be granted.

Well we dont know that because the FBI refuses to comply with congressional subpoenas.

The problem is dossier should not have been used at all, even if it was supplemental. It was paid for by the targets opponents, and used the very countries agents that were accused of colluding with those opponents. If the other evidence was string enough for the Fisa warrant, why use the dossier at all?

a reply to: Grambler

ironically even Nixon had more integrity when it came to screwing people over...

The Dossier?

Dude, these people are a den of vipers behind closed doors. The Dossier means nothing. They didn't need a Dossier for anything. Maybe as a cute excuse perhaps, but other than that, all it likely took was a phone call from one person to the other for assistance..

..or meeting on a tarmac before take off.

a reply to: introvert

You are on a conspiracy website. You need to delete your account if you have a problem with that.

a reply to: introvert

"What you posted is merely a theory with no evidence to corroborate your theory."

But you posted:

"I've noticed that the FISA issue has become a focal point for many. People surrounding Trump, including Trump Jr, have put themselves in a very difficult position and an easy way to deflect is to suggest the dossier is 100% fake, and may have been the sole piece of "evidence" used to get those warrants."

So you can post a theory with no evidence to corroborate your theory and it is okay....but anybody else's theory is no good?

Typical response as usual.

a reply to: Grambler

It was open source, gathered from info circulating within the intel community, not directly sourced from operatives in Russia. But the fact that the allegations involved Russia when there was already concern in that regard related to tbe Trump campaign - gave the dossier merit for consideration in the warant, along with whatever other evidence they had and aren't disclosing because it could possibly compromise sources and methods.

originally posted by: SR1TX
a reply to: introvert

You are on a conspiracy website. You need to delete your account if you have a problem with that.

Seems like a convenient excuse.

It's a conspiracy site, so who needs things like evidence and facts, right?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Grambler

Watergate was bigger.

Not even close.

Water gate had people from Nixon break in to a hotel for info.

This would be having the FBI do that break in, then use the evidence they found to start an investigation.

AND start unmasking US citizens willy nilly in order to investigate them and smear them.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Why is the FISA warrant considered so suspect? Certainly not because it was precipitated by info gathered by Fusion GPS, a legal U.S. company tasked with gathering intel? It simply provided the prima facia. The warrant required additional proof to be granted.

Well we dont know that because the FBI refuses to comply with congressional subpoenas.

The problem is dossier should not have been used at all, even if it was supplemental. It was paid for by the targets opponents, and used the very countries agents that were accused of colluding with those opponents. If the other evidence was string enough for the Fisa warrant, why use the dossier at all?

No. The dossier was a product of Michael Steele, former MI6 Agent held in high esteem, and sub-contracted through an American company.

Steele didn't know the answers to his inquiry on Trump would be so incredibly heavy, and it worried him so much he thought it needed to be seen by American intelligence, not just as oppo but as a potential threat to America that needed to be properly investigated.

Imagine the dossier was about Clinton and it will all seem so much more reasonable.

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: introvert

"What you posted is merely a theory with no evidence to corroborate your theory."

But you posted:

"I've noticed that the FISA issue has become a focal point for many. People surrounding Trump, including Trump Jr, have put themselves in a very difficult position and an easy way to deflect is to suggest the dossier is 100% fake, and may have been the sole piece of "evidence" used to get those warrants."

So you can post a theory with no evidence to corroborate your theory and it is okay....but anybody else's theory is no good?

Typical response as usual.

What I posted was my personal observation. Not a theory.

Surely you understand the difference.

Maybe not.

a reply to: IAMTAT

Evidence? No, you have a story.

Mueller has evidence. I don't see him saying it's all a worthless effort based on false intel. Do you?

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Why is the FISA warrant considered so suspect? Certainly not because it was precipitated by info gathered by Fusion GPS, a legal U.S. company tasked with gathering intel? It simply provided the prima facia. The warrant required additional proof to be granted.

Well we dont know that because the FBI refuses to comply with congressional subpoenas.

The problem is dossier should not have been used at all, even if it was supplemental. It was paid for by the targets opponents, and used the very countries agents that were accused of colluding with those opponents. If the other evidence was string enough for the Fisa warrant, why use the dossier at all?

No. The dossier was a product of Michael Steele, former MI6 Agent held in high esteem, and sub-contracted through an American company.

Steele didn't know the answers to his inquiry on Trump would be so incredibly heavy, and it worried him so much he thought it needed to be seen by American intelligence, not just as oppo but as a potential threat to America that needed to be properly investigated.

Imagine the dossier was about Clinton and it will all seem so much more reasonable.

No it wouldnt seem much more reasonable.

It would still be disgusting and dangerous.

Steele is a foreign agent that was being paid to dig up dirt.

Remember how crazy everyone went over Don Jr.s meeting, saying it may be treason.

Well lets imagine those Russians would have gave him dirt. And now that Trumps president, he takes that dirt to him, and Trump uses it to survey his opponents.

The same argument could be made; well we know that democratic operatives like the Podestas worked with Russians and failed to disclose donations properly, we know Bill clinton met with Putin and got paid money from state owned russian banks, and so forth.

So now we can use the dirt Trump jr. got to get fisa warrants since it adds up with what we know. Now starts the process of spreading info gained by the surveillance of those warrants far and wide, and having leaks to the press.

Trump can then begin to tell our allies the troubling info about Democrats that he found with those warrants.

And you would say that is absolutely fine, no problem at all.

Oh wait no. Instead people screamed at the very thought of Trump jr. potentially getting any info from Russians and called it treason, even though he got no info.

a reply to: Grambler

..this dossier that we now know was paid for by Hillarys team was used by the Obama admin to obtain Fisa warrants against Trumps team

Sometimes the simple explanation is usually the correct one.

The outgoing Dem POTUS flew around on taxpayers dime and time campaigning for Ol' Dodgy to be the next POTUS (another Dem) for the people, stating "I can say with confidence there has never been a man or a woman more qualified than Hillary Clinton to serve as president of the United States of America", all the while colluding with Ol Dodgy's team to get dirt on Trump by any means necessary.

Given the 2008-2016 term and how both Hillary and Obama conducted themselves in that time, I reckon your 'scandal' there is pretty much how it went down - except they didn't plan on Trump winning.

a reply to: Grambler

Bravo good sir for such a great analysis of what we are currently seeing unfold.

Everything they attempted to do to Trump (regardless of your opinion of him) is a direct slap in the face of everything people are led to believe about American "exceptionalism".

It seems as if the FBI is basically acting as its own entity that is not accountable to the people. We are talking about one of the most powerful agencies in the world, with the power to look into anyone life at a whim, possibly favoring one political party, and having no accountability to the people whatsoever. This is a nightmare.

This may be the most important point, I and many others have long maintained that the FBI and other alphabet agencies are precisely that. Entities that are not accountable to anyone except for what is known as the deep state.

The best part about all of this is the potential for our liberal friends to realize that the deep state absolutely exists and they have been championing the left version of their narrative, much like conservatives did for the right during Bush.

Fortunately the white hats that have been in the shadows with the dark, appear to have came up with a strategy of exposing them. They utilized Trump to do so, the more we see behind the curtain the more Trump proves to be exactly what this country needs, regardless of the extreme divide being spread by the media to hide the crimes of the guilty.

S&F

a reply to: kosmicjack

No one tried to cross-check any of the claims of the Steele dossier within the FBI. This is also very suspicious. The content of the Steele dossier was always taken for granted and regarded as more important than its accuracy.

Ex : If Trump's lawyer, Cohen, did meet with Russians in Prague as the report mentions, it would have been straightforward for any inteligence service including US ones, to figure if he really was in Central Europe or in California as he happened to be.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Painterz
Correct me if I'm wrong though, this revelation doesn't demonstrate the contents of the dossier are false, simply who paid for the research to be conducted?


And we always knew that somebody paid for the research to be conducted, and it always seemed a reasonable bet it would be a political opponent of Trump?

You are correct. David Corn reported most of this a lonnnng time ago in Mother Jones. What we are witnessing is the marketing of a counter-narrative. Something for the right to rally around and believe in lieu of the truth.

Bingo. That is exactly what this is.

I've noticed that the FISA issue has become a focal point for many. People surrounding Trump, including Trump Jr, have put themselves in a very difficult position and an easy way to deflect is to suggest the dossier is 100% fake, and may have been the sole piece of "evidence" used to get those warrants.

That gives way to conspiracies involving the FBI, Obama and claims that they over-stepped their authority to go after political opponents.

It's a very easy and convenient way to change people's focus that does not require any evidence to be presented, because it is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

100X worse than Watergate.
Another day of Leftist deflecting from hard evidence that King Obama wiped his ass with the Constitution and handed it to Queen Hillary, and she flushed it down the toilet.
Of course the FISA warrant issue is the worst part of this debacle because this was a sitting President using the FBI and other intelligence agencies for partisan political gain, influencing the FISA court with an unverified and highly unusual document from questionable sources.
"Opposition Research" doesn't even matter here, it's been going on since the 2 party political system has been in place.
If Trump did this, you Leftists would try to burn the White House down.