NHS May Rent Out Rooms Airbnb Style For After Surgery Patients

a reply to: DAVID64

And that's a bit outdated. I don't know any nurses that work for less that 70k a year 120k if you're an NP and 200+ if you're a CRNA

originally posted by: Garmanarnar

originally posted by: Metallicus
And people wonder why we don’t want Government in charge of the US healthcare system.

Because America has such a good system?

Back on topic, the tories are killing the NHS slowly, death by a thousand cuts.

It's really not that far from being great. The only thing we have to do is make insurance illegal. Boom, medical system fixed.

Insurance drives the price up for medical services. Without insurance companies, medical costs would be affordable, and the people who couldn't afford it still [because they are poor] would need less assistance. I mean if the US Government can pay 7 billion dollars a year to the insurance industry in an attempt to keep peoples deductibles low, than they surely could use that same money to take care of the poor's medical bills if the costs weren't inflated by the insurance industry.

I mean, as it stands -- most people don't even come close to using the amount of money they pay into insurance. Insurance is about 4 grand a year for a weak plan, in ten years time that's 40,000$ you waste if you don't ever have a medical incident. If you do have a medical incident, it's likely not going cost anywhere near 40 grand unless you have late stage cancer or need a surgery as complicated as on the brain. Even still though -- my Wife just went through Brain Surgery here in the states, and the Brain Surgeon billed her $6,000, the rest of the surgeon crew billed her for $8,000.

The hospital stay, for room and board and their crappy cafeteria food? $200,000 for 10 days. You see the problem here right? That said, the county paid the bill, the hospital itself comped most of it before the county paid it, and the only thing we have to pay is the $14,000 for the doctors, which isn't really a lot of money, and if you don't pay it -- then it gets sold to collections which then can be paid for pennies on the dollar in a few years. So the only downside to not paying it immediately is a halt to your credit score raising.

That's not really a big deal at all, honestly.

Nobody dies from not being able to afford a doctor, because you don't need any money in America to see one. The bigger problem is with things like dentistry. People do die from not being able to see a dentist because you can't see a dentist for free.

originally posted by: Metallicus
And people wonder why we don’t want Government in charge of the US healthcare system.

Yeah, because our hospitals (insurance companies) just send you home whether you're sufficiently recovered or not.
They released a friend's grandfather with pneumonia, and she had to call an ambulance about six hours later to take him back he was still so sick. I hear many stories like that.

Yeah. U.S. insurance companies are so freaking great. : @@ :

I agree with a couple of posters, it ain't got nothing at all to do with post operative patients. Post operatively speaking you have to be medically monitored as if complications set in you're in the right place to be seen but if you've been discharged it leaves them open for litigation.
The real reason is because the vast amount of beds blocked are elderly that need day to day living assistance not medically need for hospital uses.
All of this rests squarely on the shoulders of the local authorities and the local social services. They have totally abrogated their duty to these "bed blockers".
Therein lies the problem. They want "nursing" but not hospital nursing.

So I said I was going to post on this further.

The Nursing profession in the UK is in crisis. We have applications down, less and less people want the job and our pay is shocking, some figures say we are down on applications by about 25%, this has been driven largely by the change to how nursing students are funded. Not only that Brexit has meant that the number of nurses for outside of the UK who are heading to work in the UK has also fallen off massively. This coupled with the fact that a bus driver can earn more than a nurse starting is creating this huge shortage of nurses.

The problems in the profession are massive, soaring numbers of nurses off sick with stress, wards running with low stuff numbers, new staff not being supported and the list goes on. The biggest problem I think is the problem that is not being reported in the media. In the next 5-10 years thousands of nurses are going to be retiring, these nurses have years of experience and expertise who are all going to be leaving soon and we don't have experienced nurses to replace them.

So the profession as I say is in crisis.

So with this background we have to start making drastic changes to provide a service, that is why we get daft idea's like this. I would never support this kind of scheme, its money out of the NHS budget that could be better spent because god knows we are spending money already on utterly stupid stuff.

These are all problems that senior NHS officials and the government should have been fixing 10 years ago.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

We had a perfectly wonderful NHS but just as with the Education system, successive Governments have buggered about with both until they are unrecognisable. It seems that what worked fine for those in power, and in the case of education, what got them into power, is now not good enough for everyone else.

I spoke to a chum last week-end and again on the phone last night about this ridiculous scheme and as a nurse she was aghast as are many of her colleagues. She works in the private sector in a specialised home. Last Monday after 35yrs nursing she handed her notice in, shortly after 4 other night staff did the same 2 carers and 2 nurses one of whom had been at the same place for 30yrs. They are worn out and exhausted. They do so little actual nursing its unreal. The care staff do more than the nurses without whom the place couldn't survive. So far this last year they've stopped the nurses night bonus, stopped overtime for bank holidays Christmas Day etc stopped tea coffee, replaced leaving staff with agency staff which puts extra pressure on existing staff who have to show them the ropes only to have them leave again, they introduced technology which rarely works and really does put patients lives at risk and made it compulsory just a few weeks ago for all night staff to do a day shift each week for full time staff each month for part time staff.

My friend's nights are taken up with "handovers" which now take ten times longer than they used to (handing over day to night staff) paperwork, compliance, assessments (she had a 4 page essay to write on "What could I have done better?"). She starts work at 7.30 pm and rarely gets to see a patient before midnight because of the sheer amount of compliance paperwork.

This is a nurse with over 30yrs experience. If something goes wrong the management kick down. The previous nursing manager was discovered unable to give an injection or attach a drip as a result all the nursing staff had to go for training on injections and drips, something they'd been doing for years! The manager however didn't, he was replaced and moved to another home. The home she works at is supposed to be for terminally ill patients, but the company started accepting anyone and everyone, to fill beds for the money. Now they have drug addicts with hepatitus diabetes and other diseases, they have mentally ill patients because there are no other places to send them after surgery. When I spoke to her last night, she'd had a drug addict throw his colostomy bag at her so she was covered in poop and had to change her uniform. She had another patient that was paralysed drug addict that threw poop at anyone that walked in the room. That isn't unusual. She's been bitten and punched and the management do nothing but send her on another training course. Always the nurses fault not the money grabbing gits at the top taking on patients they are not prepared nor trained for. Management are rarely nurses themselves nor trained, just trained in "managing" and money making.

The treatment of nurses whether NHS or private appears to be at the root of their severe unhappiness.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Do you the think the NHS would be better off privatised then? Seen as it wastes so much money? What exactly does it waste this money on anyway?

a reply to: SRPrime

$14k "isn't a lot of money"? What universe are you in? The median household income in the US is $51k per year, that one hospital stay is four year's wages for the average American family, even the $14k you'll be paying is the kind of expense that could easily bankrupt someone.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Who decides when they're fit to leave the private home?

I can see this being open to fraud. No doubt the world of organised fraud is gearing up for it now.

We do need urgent action to address our NHS bed and space shortages as patients are literally being left in corridors and storage rooms while people are being denied treatment. It is unbelievable!

However, this scheme of paying up to £1k a month does seem a waste of money. With an ageing population, surely it would be cheaper long term to build lots of elderly care homes/centers instead?

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Do you the think the NHS would be better off privatised then? Seen as it wastes so much money? What exactly does it waste this money on anyway?

I support the founding principles of the NHS of being comprehensive and free at point of use.

However.

I think that there are a number of massive problems, I think that some element of privatisation could help but the problem is how that works in the UK. If you need a hip replaced and its going to take 12 weeks to get your operations so you decide to go private.... well its probably going to be the same surgeon doing it. Whats even more pathetic is if your not going to be getting your opp for a few months then the NHS will phone you and ask if you would be prepared to have a private healthcare facility do it rather than the NHS. This creates huge cost, they will even pay to have a relative stay in a hotel in some cases if the operation is going to be a significant distance from your home.

In this instance privatisation is not helping its just bleeding money out of the NHS.

We need better management, there are some utterly stupid policies that drain money, free prescriptions (utterly stupid), 4 hour NHS targets (really bad for patient care) .Even other things like procurement, the NHS is a bit like the Military soon as a contractor sees its a NHS contract they just up the costs.

There are honestly too many problems with the NHS to express in a single thread.

Its very complex but I do not think privatisation is the answer, better management (which actually coming from the private sector could help) is what is needed. We also need much better clinical governance, it needs a big cultural change and they have got to find a way to retain staff.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Thanks for getting back to me.
I'm a bit lost for words at what you have said though as I can't believe or have misconstrued some of your points.
Firstly how can a surgeon be employed by the NHS and some private health company at the same time? There's a huge conflict of interest right there. I thought private health care such as Bupa had their own private hospitals, doctors, nurses and all the rest of it. How can they possibly be using NHS assets?

Secondly I can understand a pressured NHS asking someone if they would prefer the option of going private, but are you telling me the NHS pays for the cost of this private treatment? Plus accommodation for a relative if required? Really? This is scandalous if so.

As for free prescriptions I'm not so sure about, if it were means tested for example then those that can afford to pay might as well just go private anyway surely? What about Those that can't, are they just to be denied the prescriptions? I think the main issue here is private drug companies charging way over the top prices to the NHS for the said prescription drugs. The whole point of private and for profit business is they are meant to be competitive, or at least have some competition forcing them to charge appropriately for their goods and services. It seems like the NHS is being used as some kind of cash cow by certain businesses. This isn't the only sector in which this is happening either...

In short you can't have a public service mixed up with private for profit business. It has to be one or the other. If there is no way around it, then the management of the public service needs to be certain they are getting the best possible value and be able to prove it or they should be replaced by someone competent.

As far as the public is concerned we are told the problems with the NHS are all down to a lack of funding essentially, I think there would be justified outrage if they knew what is really happening.

Is there any reporting or sources you are aware of that back up what you're saying? I feel this information needs sharing before the NHS is truly doomed.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Nope you have not misunderstood.

Firstly how can a surgeon be employed by the NHS and some private health company at the same time? There's a huge conflict of interest right there. I thought private health care such as Bupa had their own private hospitals, doctors, nurses and all the rest of it. How can they possibly be using NHS assets?

They have their own facilities but generally speaking senior doctors also make money on the side doing work for private patients. Surgeons are the worst culprits they might work Monday to Friday for the NHS but then on a Saturday they will head of to do a private theatre list full of people who have paid to get a hip replacement done privately. These is big money, I know one consultant anaesthetist who told me that he got paid £7000 for one days work on a private list that paid for his holiday that year.

Nursing is the same.

Most nurses are also members of private agency groups.

Basically say a ward does not have enough staff and cannot get a nurse to get their levels up to a safe level then they will have a standing contract with a agency who will provide a nurse for a fee. This fee is massive, I can earn up to 4 times as much as I normally would if I do a agency shift. The catch is that I cannot work within my own hospital and the work is never guaranteed.

I know lots of people who do this type of agency work full time and earn a ridiculous amount of money doing it.

The NHS will pay for people to go for private for a operation. I know of at least one case where the NHS paid to have someone go for a operation where it was the same NHS surgeon who done the operation only because the NHS paid a private clinic to do it it was done 4 weeks earlier. Its all because of government targets to reduce hospital waiting lists so if the NHS trusts can pay a private entity to do the operation they can reduce their waiting list and hit the unrealistic targets.

If you want to get really annoyed about this look up what happened with the Golden Jubilee hospital in Glasgow. A American company wanted to build this new amazing private hospital, they built it using lots of money from government grants, the venture failed so the government bought the hospital that was basically built with government money off the American company who had invested very little.

Also free prescriptions are not means tested, its not unheard of for someone to go to a doctor to get a prescription for something like paracetamol which you can buy for 21p in a shop. It costs around £20-£25 to get a prescription so the cost of this on the NHS is massive. If we had to pay for prescriptions then it would stop people waisting resources like this and it would put money directly into the NHS. However it does not happen because its a politically popular policy that politicians can wave about pretending they done something amazing.

As for sourcing, its kind of difficult.

you can find out most of this stuff if you read up on line, I have been privy to a few meetings regarding care delivery in NHS Scotland so I have a bit more incite in to this stuff but most who work in the NHS know that the entire system is broken through bad management.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I had no idea these kind of practices were going on. It seems to me like this is being done deliberately to destabilise and eventually fully privatise the NHS.

I say this from the point of view of someone who runs their own business, the senior management and certain members of the government must what's going on is counter productive to public health care. Frankly I am disgusted.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

It's bullcrap pal and the fact of the matter is that a few years down the line after Brexit the UK will be lucky to have an NHS that resembles anything like the current system.

"They" will privatize our NHS beyond repair and create a piss poor system reminiscent of the medical aid and treatment given to the poor in the USA where financial status and insurance credentials donate which hospital and methods of treatment are available to the patient.

It's in the post, we can be pretty much sure of that.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That Golden Jubilee hospital in Glasgow is just across the water and not that far away from a raw sewage water treatment plant. There is a reason they keep all the windows closed if you know what i mean.

Just getting from the carpark to the main building can be somewhat of an experience.

Whoever decided to build the place should possibly have considered a more appropriate location really.

a reply to: surfer_soul

It seems to me like this is being done deliberately to destabilise and eventually fully privatise the NHS.

There is a growing feeling within the public that the eventual aim is the privatisation of the NHS, only problem is that it would be political suicide so they want to do it "by the back door"

a reply to: andy06shake

a fellow Glasgow bhoy!!!

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: surfer_soul

It seems to me like this is being done deliberately to destabilise and eventually fully privatise the NHS.

There is a growing feeling within the public that the eventual aim is the privatisation of the NHS, only problem is that it would be political suicide so they want to do it "by the back door"

Yes they will keep "outsourcing" parts of it until it is privatised in all but name.

Unless we man the # up and actually start doing someting to speak out and stop it that is.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Is hiring foreign nurses an option? I have a cousin who came from the Philippines to Maryland because nurses are in demand there.