Uk bans Operations For Fat Smokers

originally posted by: Lolliek
A few years ago, here in the US, I had to get my knee replaced for the 2nd time (there is a reason my kids call me RoboMom, lol). I’d been chewing nicotine gum instead of smoking- which I did for most of my life. He wouldn’t do the surgery until I quit, and had to be “clean” for 4 weeks. My chances for a good outcome were less. Guess what? I quit. It was hard, but I HAD to do it. I had the replacement done.

been going on more than a few years. i had a disc replaced back in 2001 and before i could even have consultations with the surgeon i had to be clean 6 weeks.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: paraphi

All this is because the NHS is under funded, the smoking and overweight thing is just an excuse to refuse service as it's easy to pass the blame on to the patient. As can be seen by a few posts in this thread, some people seem to think that is aceptable.

What about those that risk their lives in other ways? Fell off your bike did you? Well it was your own fault you'll just have to heal yourself... And numerous other examples I won't go into.

How is it I can stuff my face with as much food as I like and I don't get fat? I don't exactly exercise, though do have quite a physical job. Does it not have something to do with my metabolism perhaps? Or how is it I've participated in extreme sports most of my life but never broken anything or needed treatment? Is it my inate skill? My superior genes perhaps? Actually that may be it, after all some are born diabetic, some are born with or soon develop cancer, should those unfortunate ones be refused treatment? Or are we just going after those that knowingly risk their health? If so where exactly do we draw the line at risking ones health?

In fact why are there so many more obese people today than compared to say 30 years ago? Could be some conspiracy there in itself...

Let's face it, there is faction in society that would like to get rid of the NHS altogether simply because they don't want to pay for it. Or in some cases because they can see themselves making a tidy profit from private health care.

The general population doesn't get the exercise they used to. Back 40 years, everyone lived in cities, villages where they could walk around to get to shops and bus stops, plus there were playing fields for everyone to use. 40 years later, those playing fields have been built over to solve the "housing crisis". Cities have become too expensive or dangerous to live in, so everyone lives in these "developments" which aren't much more than a built over field with an access road. No pavements to walk along, let alone shops to walk to. All transportation has to be done by car. There may be a bus service, but it's one bus every evening.

Good. Quit smoking. Or just lie about it for christs sake. But enjoy another liberal bash fest circle jerk i suppose.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Lolliek
A few years ago, here in the US, I had to get my knee replaced for the 2nd time (there is a reason my kids call me RoboMom, lol). I’d been chewing nicotine gum instead of smoking- which I did for most of my life. He wouldn’t do the surgery until I quit, and had to be “clean” for 4 weeks. My chances for a good outcome were less. Guess what? I quit. It was hard, but I HAD to do it. I had the replacement done.

been going on more than a few years. i had a disc replaced back in 2001 and before i could even have consultations with the surgeon i had to be clean 6 weeks.

How did you feel about that? Do yo think it was a justified requirement or did you feel hard done to?

a reply to: stormcell

The general population not getting the exercise they used to could be one reason. There are certainly a hell of a lot more cars, and a lot less walking anywhere.
Local shops struggle because they can't compete with big super markets and home deliveries. High street shops because of business rates and people getting better prices from Amazon and such.
There's still plenty of parks and outdoor spaces though thankfully but I don't see kids playing out anywhere near as much these days. When I was a kid I was barely in my house.

What about the junk food and the poor convenience diet many people choose? Surely that must contribute too?
I think a large part of society is as a whole suffering from depression. Self medicating with junk food, drugs, booze, reality tv and anything else to give them a "lift" from their apparently meaningless existence.

originally posted by: LondonMan
How does a 70 year old lose weight..

Same way everyone else does, diet and exercise. My grandmother lived to be 98, she exercised daily and cooked her own meals up until she was 96 and she was never overweight. You need to make a commitment to a healthy lifestyle and stick to it.

I'm thinking that would be extreme discrimination.

The thing is, medicines make a person gain weight more than anything. Also some food additives that are classified other than what they are can also cause weight gain. People who eat junk food should be denied operations if that is the case, most of those highly prepared foods are worse on a person than smoking.

Tobacco does cause an increase in an enzyme that actually makes it hard to properly knock some one out with anesthesia so I suppose that can lead to problems. But so does consuming any of the nightshade chemistry, tomatoes, potatoes, hot pepper, etc... cause this same increase in enzyme to break down the anesthesia.

The way it was explained to me...

Surgery is a risk, not just the surgery itself, but the likelihood of you contracting a hospital acquired infection. Staph, MRSA, C-Diff and a host of others.

People who were heavy drinkers whether 10-OR 20 years ago are very difficult to anesthetize.
Smokers notoriously are slower healers overall.

The better shape you are in previous to a surgery, the better outcome you have.

No one wants to do a hip replacement surgery and have the patient end up in a nursing home due to being worse off afterwards. Here in the States for the last 10years that I know LOTS of surgeons are refusing to operate if a patient is still smoking.

This will sound crappy, but patients that die of complications after a surgery really rack up some bad statistics for Doctors and that record is permanent. It also in many cases is due to the average age and condition of the patient population, but regardless it's only one of many bottom lines that need to be looked at.

We're living longer and in all honesty it's NOT guaranteed that it'll be pain free or NOT mobility impaired or cheap.
More "well that's crappy!" but it is what it is.

As consumers and patients we seriously have to take responsibility for ourselves to whatever degree we can.

a reply to: LondonMan

Is this going to be the new Charlie Gard scandal then? I don't mean to sound dismissive but I watched how that poor boys name was used by so many to push a political agenda while he was slowly dying and people then claimed that they weren't using the case to push their own beliefs. Look the simple fact is that compared to the US way the NHS is far better, we don't have a system that it profit over people, money over life which is how the US paying system is and always will be. I'm not saying the US has some terrible way of doing things or that there system is terrible etc. my point being is that the NHS is treatment for all, the question of obese not over weight but obese people having to lose weight before an operation that isn't life threatening is a clear and simple one, it is for the benefit of the patient, it decreases the chances of the patient dying or have a reaction to the medicine which increases with the more weight you have.

This is a single place in the UK, a single trust not the entire country. We need to stop this and stop it now, bad mouthing an entire system that has been around and saved millions of lives every year because of a single case or single trust is a ridiculous concept. We don't look at Trump and use his actions as the approximation of all Americans. In the same way that Charlie Gard was used to bad mouth the way the NHS and the children hospitals take care of millions of children across the UK was ignored just to push the "NHS system bad, Insurance system better" theory.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Lolliek
A few years ago, here in the US, I had to get my knee replaced for the 2nd time (there is a reason my kids call me RoboMom, lol). I’d been chewing nicotine gum instead of smoking- which I did for most of my life. He wouldn’t do the surgery until I quit, and had to be “clean” for 4 weeks. My chances for a good outcome were less. Guess what? I quit. It was hard, but I HAD to do it. I had the replacement done.

been going on more than a few years. i had a disc replaced back in 2001 and before i could even have consultations with the surgeon i had to be clean 6 weeks.

How did you feel about that? Do yo think it was a justified requirement or did you feel hard done to?

it was very hard. i was in a lot of pain and i was addicted to nicotine but i needed to get fixed up.

i still dont agree with denying a consult let alone a surgery because the person smokes.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Sounds like the surgeries they might need to be sound enough to get back into shape are what they're being denied.

Those very conditions could help weaken people, that final tipping point that just right that their weight spirals out of control to begin with.

But who is anyone to criticize the system? Those individuals need to do their part for socialism, the needs of the many outweigh the few, and many there are too many people so what better place to start doing the unhealthy scratches then with smokers?

Of course the bitch about this is, who gets to be the one to decide who what weight classifies as "obese" in these cases. Better hope when its you you dont end up being reviewed by some anti-smoking nazi.

Since its all one monolithic machine there, do they even get to shop around town for second opinions???

i wasn't going to get drawn into the insults, buy yes she has a heart condition so is unable to exercise and has been like this for years, for some to say simply exercise shows no compassion at all, she doesn't drink alchohol, eat takeaway foods etc, her weight is caused by her problem.

a reply to: LondonMan

I have talked to guys at work and they have to be thinner for bariatric surgery, not smoke for a number of weeks. This goes for other serious surgeries.


And for those countries who are crying about their health care costs, their costs are small potatoes. Come over to the profit driven side of health care in the US and pay at least 2.5 times as much.

As a critical care nurse the level of ignorance on this thread is astounding.

If you are fat and smoke your risk factor for dying on the table and post-op complications is massive in comparison to a individual who does not smoke or eat like a horse. That is a just a fact. So if you are fat and smoke its in your best interests to stop smoking and cut back on the pies and go for a walk.

I actually think what the OP is complaining about is one of the inadvertent problems with having a health care system like ours. People neglect their own health, there is this attitude of "its ok the NHS will sort that". You are responsible for your own health, if you eat a tub of ice cream every night then drink a pack of beers and have a few smokes while you stew infront of the TV then its your fault you are unhealthy not the NHS or the government.

Speaking of the government, they had nothing to do with the death of Charlie Gard and have little to do with these kind of decisions, they are clinical decisions.

The NHS will never have enough funding, not matter how much money you put it, it will always need more. So resources have to be allocated appropriately. Lets say you are needing your hip replaced and you are ultra fit, is it fair then that some fat dude gets the opp before you? not really. Its a total waist of resources for the NHS to go and spend thousands on treatments for people who just won't help themselves.

Lastly OP, you didn't tell them you smoked at a pre-opp assessment?!?!?!

Can I just tell you how utterly stupid that is, if you smoke it could drastically change your management. The anesthetic staff might decide that because you smoke they want to do a nerve block rather than a GA because you could have some degree of obstruction that could make a GA more dangerous. So you don't tell them then some poor doc is going to tube you but because you have destroyed your lungs thanks to years of smoking it doesn't work or it turns into a difficult airway problem and you find yourself in a ITU. Or you go into T2RF and need critical care because you never mentioned that you smoked so nobody was fussed about how much o2 you were getting. The list of possible complications of this is actually endless and I know you know nothing about health care (as is evident from your OP) but this is dangerous. Not only that but 9 times out of 10 we know you are lying anyway about it so now you have just told a lie to the same people who are going to be giving you some very dangerous drugs. Not smart. Kind of goes back to what I was saying about being responsible for your own health.

Your aunt can stop smoking, she can eat less.

Its not actually that difficult if you have a bit of will power to see you through it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I agree with you. There has to be some standard so people don't die or get seriously injured on the table. Plus no Dr wants have much riskier surgeries all day long because secondary causes.

never mind

a reply to: LondonMan

Uk bans Operations For Fat Smokers

Because you can be fat or be a smoker, but not a fat smoker. Heart can't take the stress of anesthesia, the operation and recovery. Its not the best investment of their time to 'heal you'.

Sad as that is, You should have thought about that before becoming addicted to food and tobacco.

Liberals think health care is a human right until they have to pay for it then you are screwed. I really hope we never have this rationed health care system come to America.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah, but hot peppers are also a natural anti-inflammatory too (the capsaicin). So I taught myself to enjoy some of the moderately spicy foods with peppers like chipotle, jalapeno, serrano, etc., in them.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Liberals think health care is a human right until they have to pay for it then you are screwed. I really hope we never have this rationed health care system come to America.

But US members have stated that they have been in a similar situation with there "far better" private medical insurance system so your comment makes no sense?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And this is why a system like the UK's is one I hope we never have.

I tend to agree with your that people who make bad health decisions should have to pay for them, but they should have to pay for them and not have it decided that because they made bad decisions, they will now have no access to care at all because it's more cost effective to the collective.

I know of someone whose son has some severe difficulties because of some things that were missed prenatally and the lack of preparation by the team at his birth exacerbated his condition. A year or so ago, they were told that he needed a pacemaker if he was going to have any chance of surviving into his teen years, but because of some other complications, they were also told that it was unlikely they would find someone who would take the chance of operating.

The NHS would likely have decided to simply deny that surgery because of the risk of death on the table and lack of long-term outcome even if successful.

Instead, the parents were free to find a surgeon who would take the chance. They knew the risks but they also know they will lose their son and decided that chance to have the extra years with him and the chance that medical science could come up with a solution was worth the risks.

They are fortunate they do not live in the UK I think.