Christain misinterpretation of "I am The Way" causes uneccesary division and bigotry.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

Nope. Jesus said he was THE way, the truth, and the life for a reason. He's the shepherd, the gatekeeper and the judge. Jesus said the first and greatest commandment was to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul and mind. Loving all others comes second for a reason. Loving the one true God comes first. Only God/Jesus' sheep hear his voice. The rest are thieves and robbers.

Matthew 22:37-38

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

John 10:1-10

10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

a reply to: Deetermined

No problem friend. Jesus said a lot of things, which have been debated for centuries. The above command is greatest along with loving your neighbors as you would yourself! I don't recall Jesus saying he is the Judge.
More to the point he said to make peace with your enemies (pay your debts) before you are sent to the judge. Also I am pretty sure he never even claimed to know the day or the hour? So that kind makes your claim a little confusing? Seems he painted a clear distinctive separation between him and God.
But that is another conversation maybe for another day.
Ask your self this. Do you unquestioningly believe everything you are told by the government? Do you follow blindly everything you are told by them? By the state?
Probably not right?
Well the Christian Bible is the Government authorized state issued version of doctrine. Right back to the Roman Emperor Constantinople and later King James etc. And here you are doing something that you probably wouldn't normally do. That should at least get you to question your belief system a little.

Besides that I gotta ask. Have you noticed any scriptural changes in your bible recently? If you haven't noticed anything strange lately then I am probably flogging a dead horse bantering with you. As your mind seems pretty set in stone. I am pretty sure you haven't noticed a thing. Everything in your book hunky dory huh?

Don't worry. You got the 2 most important commands down pat. They haven't changed yet. Try not to bash the other branches. (You know Though shall not Judge) And I probably should add that your neighbors are the animals also. So I take it you understand that command right? Love thy neighbor (all living creatures) and Though shall not kill.

Yabba Dabba Doo - You know who I am talking to!!! ME! Peace - God Bless.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

The problem I have with your post is the fact that you use scripture to try and make your point when you're not even familiar with it.

Jesus as the Judge...

John 5:19-27

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

To me, the scriptures are pretty clear, but if you want to follow the other religions, use their texts if you want to stress your point.

a reply to: whereislogic

The one slaughtering the bull is like one striking down a man. The one sacrificing a sheep is like one breaking the neck of a dog. The one offering a gift—like the blood of a pig! The one presenting a memorial offering of frankincense is like one saying a blessing with magical words.* [Or possibly, “one praising an idol.”] They have chosen their own ways, And they take delight* in what is disgusting. [Or “their soul takes delight.”] 4 So I will choose ways to punish them, And the very things they dread I will bring upon them. Because when I called, no one answered; When I spoke, there were none who listened. They kept doing what was bad in my eyes, And they chose to do what displeased me.”

Heavy yeh! But very appropriate. As those verses are quite clear as to what He likes and dislikes.

The problem I have with your post is the fact that you use scripture to try and make your point when you're not even familiar with it.

a reply to: Deetermined

Friend I am more well versed than you presume.
But I think the con cern is that you make no mention of the changes. Unless you can comment on the changes then I am sorry that there is nothing I can do to help you see.

Your path is set friend./ Peace be with you.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

You've already proven that you're not well versed.

The rest of your comment is nothing but typical man made talking point arguments that people have to decide for themselves whether or not they're worthy of listening to. Personally, I prefer to listen to the Holy Spirit.

he rest of your comment is nothing but typical man made talking point arguments that people have to decide for themselves whether or not they're worthy of listening to. Personally, I prefer to listen to the Holy Spirit.

a reply to: Deetermined


I am sorry friend. I don't mean to offend you. You are free to think of me as you will. But I can already for see our discussion and its fruitless. As you are unable to see the changes I mention.
Peace be with you friend.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

a reply to: Deetermined

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Besides that I gotta ask. Have you noticed any scriptural changes in your bible recently? If you haven't noticed anything strange lately then I am probably flogging a dead horse bantering with you. As your mind seems pretty set in stone. I am pretty sure you haven't noticed a thing. Everything in your book hunky dory huh?

Don't worry. You got the 2 most important commands down pat. They haven't changed yet.

uhm, what about this significant change to the first commandment? (see the bolded part of Jesus' quotation, I don't really want to skip the introduction so I apologize if it's a bit long)

“I Love the Father”

1, 2. What did the apostle John reveal about the final evening that the apostles spent with Jesus?

AN AGED man dips his pen in ink, his mind full of memories. His name is John, and he is the last living apostle of Jesus Christ. Now about 100 years old, John casts his thoughts back some seven decades to a most memorable evening—the last one that he and his fellow apostles spent with Jesus before His death. With God’s holy spirit guiding him, John is able to remember and write down events in great detail.

2 That night, Jesus made it clear that he would soon be put to death. John alone reveals the reason why Jesus said that he was going to submit to that terrible end: “In order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment to do, so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here.”—John 14:31.

3. How did Jesus show that he loved his Father?

3 “I love the Father.” Nothing mattered more to Jesus than that. Not that he constantly repeated the statement. In fact, John 14:31 is the only place in the Bible record where we find Jesus expressing his love for his Father so directly. Yet, Jesus lived those words. His love for Jehovah was in evidence daily. Jesus’ courage, his obedience, and his endurance were all evidence of his love for God. His entire ministry was motivated by this love.

4, 5. The Bible promotes what kind of love, and what can be said about Jesus’ love for Jehovah?

4 Today, some may think of love as a soft quality. They may think of love poems and love songs, perhaps even of the giddiness that is sometimes associated with romantic love. The Bible does discuss romantic love, although in a more dignified way than is common now. (Proverbs 5:15-21) God’s Word spends much more time, though, on discussing love of another kind. This love is not mere passion or fleeting emotion; nor is it a dry, intellectual philosophy. It involves both heart and mind. Such love springs from the innermost self, is governed by and in harmony with noble principles, and is expressed in positive action. It is anything but frivolous. “Love never fails,” says God’s Word.—1 Corinthians 13:8.

5 Of all humans who have ever lived, Jesus was the foremost lover of Jehovah. No one has surpassed Jesus in living by the words he himself quoted as the greatest of all divine commands: “You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.” (Mark 12:30) How did Jesus develop such love? How did he keep his love for God strong during his time on earth? And how can we imitate him?

The Oldest and Strongest Bond of Love

6, 7. How do we know that Proverbs 8:22-31 describes God’s Son, not just the quality of wisdom?

6 Have you ever worked on a project with a friend and found that the two of you became better, closer friends as a result? That pleasant experience may provide some insight into the love that developed between Jehovah and his only-begotten Son. We have referred more than once to Proverbs 8:30, but let us take a closer look at that verse in its context. In verses 22 through 31, we find an inspired description of wisdom personified. How do we know that these words refer to God’s Son?

7 In verse 22, wisdom says: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.” More than just wisdom must be involved here, for that quality never was “produced.” It never began to exist because Jehovah has always existed and he has always been wise. (Psalm 90:2) God’s Son, however, was “the firstborn of all creation.” He was produced, or created; he was the earliest of all of Jehovah’s achievements. (Colossians 1:15) The Son existed before the earth and the heavens, as described in Proverbs. And as the Word, God’s own Spokesman, he was the perfect expression of Jehovah’s wisdom.—John 1:1.

8. How was the Son occupied during his prehuman existence, and what might we think about when admiring creation?

8 How was the Son occupied during the vast expanse of time before he came to earth? Verse 30 tells us that he was beside God as “a master worker.” What does that mean? Colossians 1:16 explains: “By means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth . . . All other things have been created through him and for him.” So Jehovah, the Creator, worked through his Son, the Master Worker, to bring every other creation into existence—from the spirit creatures in the heavenly realm to the immense physical universe, to the earth with its wondrous variety of plant and animal life, to the pinnacle of earthly creation: humankind. In some respects, we might liken this cooperation between Father and Son to that of an architect working with a builder, or contractor, who specializes in bringing the architect’s ingenious designs to reality. When we are awed by any facet of creation, we are actually giving credit to the Great Architect. (Psalm 19:1) However, we may also call to mind the long and happy collaboration between the Creator and his “master worker.”

9, 10. (a) What strengthened the bond between Jehovah and his Son? (b) What can strengthen your bond with your heavenly Father?
...
How Jesus Kept His Love for Jehovah Strong
...
Will You Imitate Jesus’ Love for Jehovah?

18. What is the most important way in which we need to follow Jesus, and why?

18 Of all the ways in which we need to follow Jesus, none is more important than this: We must love Jehovah with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. (Luke 10:27) The measure of such love is not just in the intensity of our feelings but also in the reality of our actions. Jesus was not content merely to feel love for his Father nor merely to say, “I love the Father.” He said: “In order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment to do, so I am doing.” (John 14:31) Satan had charged that no human would serve Jehovah out of unselfish love. (Job 2:4, 5) In order to give the best possible answer to Satan’s vicious slander, Jesus courageously went ahead and showed the world just how much he loved his Father. He obeyed even to the point of giving up his life. Will you follow Jesus? Will you show the world that you truly love Jehovah God?
...
How Can You Follow Jesus?
...
- How can we express heartfelt love for Jehovah in the way we use his name?—John 17:6-8.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

It is fairly evident from 1500 years of Judaism prior to Christ, where they devoutly "followed the law", yet no-one was saved through the law.

All these devout Jews suffered from one shortcoming. At some stage in their lives, they had 'dropped their guard' and transgressed against the letter of the law. No amount of "living right" after the fact, removes culpability. It is kind of like someone trying to get off a murder charge by suggesting that they were 'really good' afterwards. It wouldn't cut it in a court of law.

Similarly, from God's perspective, all sins are equally bad. They are simply sin and all have exactly the same consequence under the law.

Jesus message was that God was willing to forgive those who earnestly sought forgiveness and were truly repentant.

It took something that us humans were incapable of doing and absolved it by God's love. We couldn't do it, so God did, and God is both willing and able.

The path to being granted forgiveness, was not defined by us, but by God. John 14:16 is not the only verse describing the uniqueness of Jesus mission. Is Jesus the only way to Heaven? - GotQuestions.org

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

the operative word is 'THE'. Jesus is the ONLY Way to the Father.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Then that interpretation is the problem.
It immediately shuts down the average Christians ability to further inquire into the other branches.
I remember when I was young. I met a Christian group. I took one chap from the group to eat at the Hare Krishna restaurant which is vegetarian as they forbid killing/eating animals. This is a higher principle.
But the Christian chap refused to go in and eat. He didn't know anything about the Hare Krishna Org. But he had already decided without any inquiry that he would not enter.

Neither Judaism or Jesus had a vegetarian mission. If it was a higher principle, wouldn't God have made mention of it at some stage?

Also, 1 Corintians 4: 1-5 says "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer."

And from Genesis 9: 3 "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

And additionally, when there are many food places with no explicit religious agenda, it is prudent to choose to avoid one which does have such an agenda.

Your Christian friend was simply being wise.

Utter madness. But he happily would go eat a cow which was mercilessly butchered in a western corporate slaughter house. You see this is not logical? But that is the typical mind set that has trapped Christians. It really is a brain washing that is difficult to change. They are not aware of the brain washing.

There are also mystery schools which can lead one to purification. People don't even realize they exist. They are out there. Subud for example is one of these. SUBUD Susila Budhi Dharma

www.subud.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.subud.org...

Subud gives people a way to directly experience God One on one. They welcome all people regardless of what religion they follow. They welcome all inquiring minds. Searchers of Truth. But that is all I am going to say about them.
There are others to.

If you have eyes, then you will certainly no that something is amiss with The Christian Bible lately.
If you are a true sheep then you will see the corruption of it before your very eyes.
If you are a goat you may be blind to it. But if you have not noticed then you may be in trouble.

Jesus is a contemporary figure in the scheme of things. There are many other figures in history who are just as significant, if not more. If you read ancient scriptures you will come to realize this. People worshiped God well before Jesus arrived.

Seriously right now we are in a very blessed period. Never before in our known history have we had all these ancient texts and scriptures converted not only into our own language. But at our finger tips. But silly stubborn Christians don't take advantage of this. They cling onto the slowly corrupting Bible. Which has been ravaged over the centuries and right now in our time is slowly transforming more and more corruptions. You would have to be blind not to notice. And you would have to crazy not to take advantage of inquiring into other scripture. The Bible today is not what it was in the past.

If you only understood whats is going now and in what will happen in the future. All these scriptures and writings are slowly going to be taken away from the general public. This will eventually happen. And people in that time wont' have the luxury of reading them at will like we do.

Most people would have heard of Martin Luther King. He was famous for saying there are many paths to the top of the Mountain. Just think about that for a second. He is revered for his progressive attitude. Many paths to the top of the Great Mountain. Hmmm.

Anyway we have free will. You are free to stay stuck in a mind set which does not allow you to make inquiry otherwise. You are free to cling onto a slowly decaying Christian Bible. You are free to believe supporting the corporate slaughter houses and consuming millions and millions of animals is okay. You are free to believe the pastors who go round bashing other religions. You are free to turn a blind eye to the good fruit that other branches (religions) are producing. You are free to ignore the bad fruit that is coming out of the Christian branch. This is your choice.

There is a fairly ancient word for your philosophy; "apostacy" which comes from the Ancient Greek word "apostasis" and means 'defection - the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief or principle'.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
a reply to: ElGoobero

no, no, and no. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. no figure in history can compare.

Come now friend. Do we read just one page in a book and know the whole story?

There is much you do not know.
www.bhagavatam-katha.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.bhagavatam-katha.com...

www.harekrishnatemple.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.harekrishnatemple.com...
www.iskcondesiretree.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.iskcondesiretree.com... bali-maharaja-and

upliftconnect.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">upliftconnect.com...

www.subud.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.subud.com...

It is far wiser to read all the pages in the book and come to your conclusion then. Can you not see the corruptions appearing in the book of your own branch?

Modern Christians have the condition of being like frogs in a well.

www.harekrishnatucson.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.harekrishnatucson.org... -Philosophy

Have you considered that, perhaps, it isn't the billions of Christians who are in error?

a reply to: whereislogic

What significant change are you talking about? Lord, God, Jehovah are all names and titles used to describe the same God throughout the Bible in all versions.


Exodus 6:3

3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord I did not make myself fully known to them. - NIV

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. -KJV

rsc.byu.edu...

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
"I am the way"

...
It is very clear that, “Gods Word” is present in Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, The Hare Krishna teachings and also in Christianity. You only have to read there core teachings to see this.

Perhaps they could be getting their information from who the bible refers to as "the god of this system of things" (Satan). I think I'll get my information about the one who bears the title “the Word” (Jesus) from God's word: the bible.

A God or a Man?

“I AM the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.” (John 8:12) These words were spoken by Jesus Christ. A learned man of the first century wrote about him: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.” (Colossians 2:3) Moreover, the Bible says: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) Accurate knowledge about Jesus is essential in order to satisfy our spiritual need.

People around the earth have heard of Jesus Christ. His influence on the history of mankind is beyond question. In fact, the calendar used in most parts of the world is based on the year he is thought to have been born. “Many people refer to dates before that year as B.C., or before Christ,” explains The World Book Encyclopedia. “They use A.D., or anno Domini (in the year of our Lord), for dates after that year.”

Yet, there are conflicting ideas about who Jesus was. To some, he was no more than an outstanding man who left his mark on history. Others, though, worship him as God Almighty. Some Hindu thinkers have likened Jesus Christ to the Hindu god Krishna, said by many to be a god incarnate. Was Jesus merely a man, or was he someone to be worshipped? Exactly who was he? Where did he come from? What was he like? And where is he now? As we will see in the following article, the book that has a great deal to say about Jesus gives truthful answers to these questions.

Who Is Jesus Christ?

IMAGINE how excited a young Jew named Andrew must have been when he first listened to the words of Jesus of Nazareth! The Bible states that Andrew rushed to his brother and said: “We have found the Messiah [or, Christ].” (John 1:41) In the Hebrew and Greek languages, the words usually translated “Messiah” and “Christ” mean “Anointed One.” Jesus was the Anointed One, or the Chosen One of God—the promised Leader. (Isaiah 55:4) The Scriptures contained prophecies concerning him, and the Jews at the time were in expectation of him.—Luke 3:15.

How do we know that Jesus really was God’s Chosen One? Well, consider what happened in the year 29 C.E. when Jesus was 30 years of age. He went to John the Baptizer to be baptized by him in the waters of the Jordan River. The Bible states: “After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’” (Matthew 3:16, 17) After hearing those words of approval, could John have had any doubt that Jesus was God’s Chosen One? By pouring out His holy spirit on Jesus, Jehovah God anointed him, or appointed him, to be the King of His coming Kingdom. Thus, Jesus became Jesus Christ, or Jesus the Anointed One. In what way, though, was Jesus God’s Son? What was his origin?

His Origin Was “From Early Times”

Jesus’ life course might be divided into three stages. The first began long before his human birth. His origin was “from early times, from the days of time indefinite,” says Micah 5:2. Jesus himself said: “I am from the realms above”—that is, from heaven. (John 8:23) He had been in heaven as a mighty spirit person.

Since all created things had a beginning, there was a time when God was alone. Countless ages ago, however, God became a Creator. Who was his first creation? The last book of the Bible identifies Jesus as “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Revelation 3:14) Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation.” That is so “because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible.” (Colossians 1:15, 16) Yes, Jesus was the only one directly created by God himself. Therefore, he is called God’s “only-begotten Son.” (John 3:16) The firstborn Son also bears the title “the Word.” (John 1:14) Why? Because before being born as a human, he served in heaven as one who spoke for God.

“The Word” was with Jehovah God “in the beginning,” when “the heavens and the earth” were created. He was the one to whom God said: “Let us make man in our image.” (John 1:1; Genesis 1:1, 26) Jehovah’s firstborn Son was there at his Father’s side, actively working with him. At Proverbs 8:22-31, he is represented as saying: “I came to be beside [the Creator] as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time.”

How intimately Jehovah God and his only-begotten Son must have come to know each other as they worked side by side! That close association with Jehovah for untold ages deeply affected God’s Son. This obedient Son came to be just like his Father, Jehovah. In fact, Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus “the image of the invisible God.” This is one reason why knowledge about Jesus is vital in satisfying our spiritual need and our natural desire to know God. Everything Jesus did while on earth is exactly what Jehovah expected him to do. Hence, getting to know Jesus also means increasing our knowledge of Jehovah. (John 8:28; 14:8-10) But how did Jesus come to be on earth?

His Life as a Man

...

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: whereislogic

What significant change are you talking about? Lord, God, Jehovah are all names and titles used to describe the same God throughout the Bible in all versions.

Only 1 of those 3 is a personal identifying name. If I say "the Doctor" have I identified which specific doctor I am referring to? Have I mentioned his personal name? Lord, King, Doctor, God, angel, (hu)man, spirit, teacher, father, son, etc. These are not personal names that identify which lord, which king, which god, which angel, which (hu)man, etc. one is referring to. And allow for conflation if one feels so inclined to confuse 2 different Lords who are both still individuals in order to obscure the identity* of one of the 2 (*: as an individual). The evidence is clear regarding what Jesus really said, he was quoting the commandment as found in the Hebrew Scriptures, the oldest manuscripts of which still contain the divine name there and not the Hebrew word for "the Lord" (or "the LORD" for that matter). So that's a significant change to the "first and greatest" commandment if one misquotes both the "first and greatest" commandment as well as Jesus by conveniently using bible translations that say "You must love the Lord your God..." (which already has a sneaky change from "the LORD" to "the Lord" within the same bible translation often, where in Deuteronomy in the KJV for example you find "the LORD", not "the Lord" cause they're fully aware that it originally had God's name there and not a generic noun like "lord", yet at Matthew 22:37 they render it as "the Lord" in spite of that awareness. Jesus is not a liar who misquotes the first and greatest commandment as if he was some common superstituous human afraid to utter the name of God for fear of blasphemy, as indirectly implied by all these translators that use "the Lord").

a reply to: chr0naut

Neither Judaism or Jesus had a vegetarian mission

You justify your own actions by scrutinizing letters ink and paper. But you ignore the most important thing. What happened to everyone's heart? Your heart?
If you cleanse your heart you will understand that God is in all of us and all living things. We share the same breath.
When you carry a pure heart you will automatically have love for all life. For all of His creations. You don't need to read books to have a heart like this.
Friend I will share something about my own character. When a fly comes into my house I catch him in a cup, speaking loving words to him as I set him free. The same I will do for a spider. I am aware of the little ants on the ground when I walk as so I do not want to stand on them. I do not want to harm them. I see God in all life. And in case I make a mistake and accidentally kill one of those little creatures. I pray to my Father to forgive me for my error.
A person who carries a pure heart embodies these characteristics. This is the quality of there inner nature.

There are orthodox Jews who practice this. And for the others that don't they are at least eating Kosher so the animal is killed with as minimal stress as possible and with prayer.

a reply to: Deetermined

What significant change are you talking about?

And this indeed is why I said earlier it is a fruitless conversation, as you are not aware of the changes.

Your path is set friend.

a reply to: Deetermined

To me, the scriptures are pretty clear, but if you want to follow the other religions, use their texts if you want to stress your point.

vaniquotes.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">ht tps://vaniquotes.org/wiki/There_is_a_story_about_a_hunter_who_was_converted_into_a_great_devotee_under_the_instruction_of_Narada_Muni
vaniquotes.org...


vaniquotes.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">ht tps://vaniquotes.org/wiki/There_is_a_story_about_a_hunter_who_was_converted_into_a_great_devotee_under_the_instruction_of_Narada_MuniSB Canto 3

There is one instance where a hunter was taking pleasure in killing animals, but after becoming a devotee he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Such is the quality of a devotee.

Srimad Bhagavatam SB 3.32.23, Purport below: Explanation from Spiritual Master Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta.
You can read the full story at: vaniquotes.org...

Engagement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and application of devotional service unto Kṛṣṇa make it possible to advance in knowledge and detachment, as well as in self-realization."

It is said by less intelligent men that bhakti-yoga, or devotional service, is meant for persons who are not advanced in transcendental knowledge and renunciation. But the fact is that if one engages in the devotional service of the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not have to attempt separately to practice detachment or to wait for an awakening of transcendental knowledge. It is said that one who engages unflinchingly in the devotional service of the Lord actually has all the good qualities of the demigods develop in him automatically. One cannot discover how such good qualities develop in the body of a devotee, but actually it happens. There is one instance where a hunter was taking pleasure in killing animals, but after becoming a devotee he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Such is the quality of a devotee.

a reply to: Deetermined

What significant change are you talking about?

Until your heart becomes like Christ's Heart you will not understand or see the changes.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
a reply to: chr0naut

Neither Judaism or Jesus had a vegetarian mission

You justify your own actions by scrutinizing letters ink and paper. But you ignore the most important thing. What happened to everyone's heart? Your heart?
If you cleanse your heart you will understand that God is in all of us and all living things. We share the same breath.
When you carry a pure heart you will automatically have love for all life. For all of His creations. You don't need to read books to have a heart like this.
Friend I will share something about my own character. When a fly comes into my house I catch him in a cup, speaking loving words to him as I set him free. The same I will do for a spider. I am aware of the little ants on the ground when I walk as so I do not want to stand on them. I do not want to harm them. I see God in all life. And in case I make a mistake and accidentally kill one of those little creatures. I pray for my Father to forgive me for my error.
A person who carries a pure heart embodies these characteristics. This is the quality of there inner nature.

There are orthodox Jews who practice this. And for the others that don't they are at least eating Kosher so the animal is killed with as minimal stress as possible and with prayer.

The practice of stunning an animal before slaughter (part of Western legal requirement for humane slaughter) is explicitly excluded from Halal and Kosher rites.

Many studies undertaken by 'Compassion in World Farming' and by the 'UK Farm Animal Welfare Council' and by 'The Federation of Veterinarians of Europe' have shown that the animals feel pain and distress when they are not stunned humanely and that death by blood loss takes significant time.

This means that Halal and Kosher slaughter are objectively and provably cruel in comparison to the practice of stunning the animal first.

As someone who has lived on a farm for most of my life, and who has experienced the slaughter of beasts first hand, by modern and traditional practice, I can tell you that stunned animals do not suffer.

And, while you may speak with pride of valuing the lives of flies and spiders, internally you are carrying out a continual genocide against bacteria, fungi, parasites and other pathogens.

Any sense of moral superiority in this regard would only be due to a lack of acceptance of true culpability. Perhaps it could even be described as delusional?

Yes, I defer to laws codified in writing by other people. They are consistent and rational in my framework of understanding of the world.