USAF to recall over a thousand retired pilots in effort to combat shortages

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

So glad you posted that, it was what I was reading about recently and the first thing I thought of with this announcement.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

What did they think was going to happen when they allowed the pilots union to cram the scope clause down their throat.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Its horrific, seeing problems written up as a check after flt / rather than doing the right thing to save a training mission.

When I first joined it was in the middle of the recovery from the clinton devastation of the military, it was tough but we had good supervision that always put their people first, with the toxic leadership now a days I am not certain how to fix the problems.

Its gotten bad enough that when the wife said she was not sure she could make tech to avoid high year tenure my first thought was thank god she wont be flying anymore.

a reply to: Irishhaf

My father was Senior Enlisted Adviser for his squadron when he retired. Prior to his retirement, the aircraft were checked nose to tail as soon as they returned from a trip, sent through the wash rack just prior to moving to the DV area, and he maintained an almost 100% mission capable rate.

A few months later, we were talking to one of the guys in the unit, and he said something about the aircraft having a minor problem. He asked if the guy wanted him to tell him how to fix it, and he said "We'll get to it after our next trip". No one gives a damn anymore about mission capable rates, or even keeping the aircraft flying.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Just my opinion but once they tied MC rates to Supers/Expediter EPR's they utterly screwed the system.

I could be wrong and maybe it got changed but when I heard about that is when I really started to see them push fly it till the wings fall off style of maintenance.

Its how I got in trouble at my last base, finally got so fed up I went to my Sq Commander after being told to shut up and color by my enlisted chain of command.

I laid it all out for him how minor things are put off to save training flights till eventually something bigger down the line breaks causing longer down times, he actually said him and the group commander were talking about the down times recently and they could not understand why the amount of time spent broken was growing.

He thanked me and a few months later we had a couple WS position guys fired/"encouraged" to retire, so for at least a little while it was done correctly... of course this directly lead to my not getting promoted, and my last EPR going "missing" once I was in germany.

But thats ok, I would rather stay an E-5 doing it the right way rather than get E-6 but see a plane crash and go through the investigation.

ETA: Old fogey comment, when I came in in the mid '90s we were taught to call BS when we saw it... kids now a days seem to be conditioned to follow orders without question.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I was reading a thing today where someone was talking about their unit having QA all over their ass for every little thing. So they started doing everything exactly by the T.O., which led to everyone wanting to know why it took up to 45 minutes to turn power on to a jet. As soon as QA was gone, they were back to doing it the "right" way.

There's a balance between doing things the expeditious way, and doing them by the book, which is what most people don't get. You can fix the jet quickly, and keep it flying safely, without being stupid about it.

Is the PILOT job overly grueling, or something? Shortages in the military and the private sector. It was a job of prestige when I was a kid. (1970's)

a reply to: carewemust

Military pilot median pay in 2016 was around $90,000, with a Lieutenant making about $36,000. A commercial captain for JetBlue, which is on the low end of the spectrum, makes about $123,000. The average for the industry is more like $165,000.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: carewemust

Military pilot median pay in 2016 was around $90,000, with a Lieutenant making about $36,000. A commercial captain for JetBlue, which is on the low end of the spectrum, makes about $123,000. The average for the industry is more like $165,000.

You couple that with better hours, and generally more stable in terms of location etc. Not as exciting perhaps. But military pilots transitioning to the civilian sector is a plus / plus for both the pilot and the airline

Half our pilots are military and there is just something different about how they go about their business that is comforting for us. Its not a trust issue mind you as we have the same with all our pilots...........

I just asked my duty manager here at Republic Airways what would happen if they recalled the whole 1000 pilots. Lets just say just our operations would go to hell. 100s of canceled flights a day with no way to fix it.... And we dont even have that many ex-military pilots as they mostly go to the majors or freight.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well that's true too, but there are actually many factors. I think one of the biggest things is the whole flying experience really doesn't hold that much glamor anymore like it used to. From my perspective (and it is my perspective / opinion), there seems to be an almost direct correlation between the drop in interest in becoming a pilot as a career and the rise of the fly by wire / computerized aircraft. Plus, now you can practically do the same thing in your living room...until you get bored...and then go do something really fun like play "SEAL Team ULTRA Six-One Fire Squad Delta - The Beginning (ver. 9271.04)"

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It doesn't help that the JetBlue Gateway school costs $125,000+, and is repayable over 15 months. That puts it at a monthly payment of over $8,000. A first year pilot at JetBlue makes $45,000 a year. That's quite a bit of debt to take on, for not much pay in return.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It doesn't help that the JetBlue Gateway school costs $125,000+, and is repayable over 15 months. That puts it at a monthly payment of over $8,000. A first year pilot at JetBlue makes $45,000 a year. That's quite a bit of debt to take on, for not much pay in return.

Interesting. it is very similar in cost to the accelerated pay to play nursing programs that you see out there these days.

a reply to: FredT

It's a four year program, and the only job that you are guaranteed is an instructor at the school until you reach your required minimum time to become an airline pilot. And then JetBlue only says that people that complete the school have a better chance of getting a job with them. So you're spending $125,000 and might not even be able to get the job you want.

originally posted by: carewemust
Is the PILOT job overly grueling, or something? Shortages in the military and the private sector. It was a job of prestige when I was a kidther $40 to $60 (1970's)

Shortages in the military and civilian sectors have different, but interrelated causes. There is much less "farm team" training to feed the airlines. When I learned to fly, a trainer (with instructor) could be rented for $9.00/hour. Solo was $6.00. I could afford to fly, even earning $1.00/hour as a 14 year old pumping gas, sweeping hangars and washing airplanes. The same class of trainer now (2 seat, low horsepower like a Cessna 152) costs over $90.00/hour solo plus another $40-60 for the instructor. You have to have at least a Commercial Certificate before you can even start earning anything for flying. When I hit 18 and got my Commercial, Instrument and Flight Instructor ratings with 250 hours, I was immediately hired by United Airlines. Instead of showing up in Chicago for my training class, I got a draft notice. Thhankfully, I worked a deal with the Air Force and was commissioned as a Reserve Officer based on flight ratings and experience. Not so thankfully, I was sent immediately to Vietnam, although ending up in Northeastern Thailand. Now, it is required that you have an Airline Transport Rating and a minimum of 1500 hours as pilot in command to be eligible for even a regional airline job. There just is not much of a supply of such qualified people. And the starting salary is an average $22,500/year with a regional airline. That's barely minimum wage.
The military shortage is also a result, at least partially, of economics. In the military, the highest pay one can ever expect is as a full colonel after 20 or 25 years, of about $105,000/year. And very few ever make that rank. The top airline pay, in the US, is about $200,000/year. And you get to live in a real house in a real city and get to choose your schedule. And by law, you can not fly more than 100 hours per month or 1000 hours per year. So if you're living in a tent at BAGRAM AFB and flying 3 4 hour missions every day and earning $5400/ month, getting out and hiring on with American Airlines starts looking pretty good. And if you've put in your full 20 years you can draw retirement pay on top of the airline pay.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh, and we haven't even started talking about the RJ / commuter pilot salaries, the feeders. I see four-bars sleeping in vans every day at the airport. Non-domiciled employees...they're eating ramen, just to get hours. It's an age old game.

Average age for a PIC is, what, are they about 12 these days? Have you seen some of these kids????? I see them every day, so young they can't even grow good peach-fuzz for a mustache. I will fly with them, not much choice sometimes, but I do wonder how much training they have in the sims.

Good. A lot of pilots are massively underpayed at this time, hopefully this will create some new opportunities for them.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh, and we haven't even started talking about the RJ / commuter pilot salaries, the feeders. I see four-bars sleeping in vans every day at the airport. Non-domiciled employees...they're eating ramen, just to get hours. It's an age old game.

Average age for a PIC is, what, are they about 12 these days? Have you seen some of these kids????? I see them every day, so young they can't even grow good peach-fuzz for a mustache. I will fly with them, not much choice sometimes, but I do wonder how much training they have in the sims.

You have to be 21 to get an ATP certificate. They just look 12 because we're old.

a reply to: F4guy

LOL!!! Yeah..I suppose you're right!

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FredT

When you get out of the military, you are available for recall for a set period of time. It depends on the job, the rank, and other factors.

Do you find it odd that DailyMail couldn't find this out? It's not like it's a secret. I thought this was fairly common knowledge.

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FredT

When you get out of the military, you are available for recall for a set period of time. It depends on the job, the rank, and other factors.

Even if you have say committed to an airline etc?

As I recall, there's a law that if you are recalled, whatever company you're working for is required to give you your job back when your commitment to the military is finished.

originally posted by: the owlbear
You sign up to kill people.
That is what "defense" is. Especially considering there are two oceans separating 'merica and everywhere else.
If you write your name on the line it's not about defense, it's about blowing up brown people.

Ridiculously ignorant post. It's a shame you have such an uninformed and low opinion of our military.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It doesn't help that the JetBlue Gateway school costs $125,000+, and is repayable over 15 months. That puts it at a monthly payment of over $8,000. A first year pilot at JetBlue makes $45,000 a year. That's quite a bit of debt to take on, for not much pay in return.

This just reinforces an overarching problem in our society today, schools are way too expensive. And no the answer isn't to find a way to get the government to pay for it. In fact, I think that's one reason why they're so expensive.