9 Year Study: Scientists reveal the relationship between SUGAR and CANCER

a reply to: Cofactor


I defer to your expertise on the topic. However, since it is not actually the topic of the thread, please be brief.

No hurry. I'll wait.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Sure, whatever advice you have, I'm interested.

- First, and this is why my insisting, ketone level shall be taken in blood. Urine and Pulmonary gas are NOT usefull. Ketone in blood shall normally nerver go higher than 8mmol/L (80mg/dL).
- Pay special attention of supplementation with vitamin and mineral, especially vitamin C. It is impossible to reproduce a paleo diet (at least what we believe it was), so assume your diet will be defficient in many things, unless you eat organs and brain matter.
- Acidosis is a problem with such diet. Our ancestor were highly active, so pulmonary compensation was highly effective. Consider doing pH control and make sure with conventional MD that you are not predisposed to problem causing acidosis. Ketogenic diet is NOT for everyone.
- Increase water consumption.
- Use medium chain saturated fat, easier to digest and easier on the liver.
- Mixed diet of fat and carbs is not good, you must go all carbs or all fat (still need protein for both), combined they are disastrous. Avoid large amount of unsaturated fat.
- Be aware that ketones are a SUPERFUEL for the cells metabolism, this is why many feel (but not all) much better under this metabolism mode, BUT it is also a superfuel for many lines of cancer cells.

I'll add more as memory serve.

a reply to: Cofactor

Thanks. I'm aware of the possible complications with ketoacidosis, and I'm getting plenty of minerals, water and fat soluble vitamins + trace minerals. I had to increase my salt intake, but aside from that, I really haven't had any issues.

I've heard that some cancers utilizing ketones, but I haven't looked much into it. Could you elaborate on that?

I definitely do well on ketosis. I was always one to skip breakfast, but I found my self crashing after lunch. Then I went keto, and that problem went away.

a reply to: Phage

I defer to your expertise on the topic. However, since it is not actually the topic of the thread, please be brief. No hurry. I'll wait.

I think it is especially on such topic like cancer and sugar, and shall be much more popularized to dispell all the myth around cancer and sugar.

The first cell are Red blood cells (RBCs) and the reason is that they have to shed their nucleus and most of their organelles to be highly flexible and able to conform to allow passage inside smaller capillaries and maximize storage and transport of oxygen.

From Wiki:

Red blood cells in mammals are unique amongst vertebrates as they do not have nuclei when mature. Red blood cells of mammals cells have nuclei during early phases of erythropoiesis, but extrude them during development as they mature in order to provide more space for hemoglobin. The red blood cells without nuclei, called reticulocytes, go on to lose all other cellular organelles such as their mitochondria, Golgi apparatus and endoplasmic reticulum.

No mitochondria allow few other choice of fuel other than glucose!

The other cells are neurons but the explaination is surprising. Neuron are capable of metabolizing ketones as they have all the required "tooling" inside like mitochondrion. In fact, neurons work better with ketones as a fuel, this is why many report improvements with neurodegenerative diseases. But there is always a small obligation for glucose molecules, why??? The answer is simple, neuron sometimes have very long axons, some reach 1 meter, and the soma of the neuron (cell body) is too far to provide eficiently the required energy into far reaching axon.

It is also reported that due to Blood Brain Barrier, somes precursors of reaction cannot reach inside brain and glucose is required to synthesized some required molecules. But this is highly controvertial, many papers still refuse to admit that another substrate that glucose can be used for energy.

ETA: This explain why patients with genetic defects of metabolism located at glycolysis chain often are afflicted with mental retardation and anemia

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I've heard that some cancers utilizing ketones, but I haven't looked much into it. Could you elaborate on that?

Nothing is simple about cancer. As research progress, we discover more questions than answer!

There exist large variation of genetic content between cancerous cells even inside a single tumor. I think it is called genomic instability. Genetic variation have a good chance to produce metabolism variation also.

Also, many cancer have a level of organisation above the cellular level. I mean some cancer are made of symbiotic cancerous cells of complimentary metabolism. Breast cancer is one of them. One cell have a metabolism inside the cytosol while the other have overactive mitochondrion. Trying to starve such tumor of glucose is futile.

Also the Warburg effect is often not understood correctly, damn I'm not even sure to remember it correctly but it say that cancerous cell have the tendency to burn glucose by anaerobic glycolysis (cytosol located) and produce lactic acid, even in a situation where oxygen is plenty, a normal cell would move metabolism toward mitochondrion in such situation and avoid production of lactic acid, cancer do not. It is not saying that cancerous cell cannot use mitochondrion to produce energy, in fact many lines of cancerous cell have over-active mitochondrion.

a reply to: Cofactor

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Feel free to post more as it comes to you. I'm not to worried about cancer. As far as I'm concerned, life causes cancer, but it is worth noting what affects ketosis has on difference cancers.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
The most simplified diagram I could find of metabolic pathways inside cells is this, but still pretty scary for non-biochemist:

Pathway

Bifurcation of metabolism described by Warburg effect occur at bottom left at the box named: Pyruvate.

The double sided arrow between the boxes Pyruvate and Lactate explain the complimentary metabolism of symbiotic cancer like breast cancer. One type of cell convert glucose to pyruvate then to lactate, it does not use the mitochondrion. The other cell type convert lactate into pyruvate, then feed it into the mitochondrion.

Note that lactate and pyruvate are equivalent to lactic acid and pyruvic acid, relate to theory on congugated acid and base and are often interchanged in papers.

ETA: The boxes in dotted line are enzymes that do the chemical conversion at the nearby line and membrane transporters at top of diagram.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

As far as I'm concerned, life causes cancer, but it is worth noting what affects ketosis has on difference cancers.

You could not word it better, life cause cancer.

But I have speculated some possibilities that ketogenic diet may delay the appearance of the metastatic process, however it fuel the cancer to growth faster, and metastasis is correlated with size of tumor. So it may help in one way but harm by making tumor growth faster. What is the overall effect? Does is allow a brief period were metastasis have low probability were surgical removal of tumor is optimal?

a reply to: Skywatcher2011
The way I understand the result of that paper is that they have discovered a positive feedback loop driven by abundance of intracytosol of Fructose 1,6-bisphosphate that stimulate cell growth via Ras activation.

The article in sciencedaily put lot of emphasis on Warburg effect, but in fact, the paper describe their discovery as just a mechanism possibly explaining why a cell exhibiting the Warburg effect also possess such a high rate of proliferation. Just to be clear, it does not explain the cause of the Warburg effect being present or what started it.

I find also that it is a big leap of faith to consider that this paper make the link between the over consumption of sugar and the positive feedback loop described. Fructose-1,6BP is not necessarily linked to the amount of dietary sugar intake. Even under insulin stimulating effect on glycolysis, the authors refer to extremely large level of production of Fructose-1,6BP present only in cells exhibiting Warburg effect.

What I appreciate in this paper is that the authors identified one evolutionary conserved mechanism in relation to fermentation. This reinforce me in my "beliefs" that cancerous cells simply revert to an unregulated state where all those conserved mechanism now have a "chance" to act. Cancer is a loss of mechanism(s) of control that make our cell goes back to an infectious state coming from 'evolutionary conserved mechanism'.

For anyone interested, what the paper explain is located at box Fructose-1,6BP in diagram I have linked previously.

Finally to add argument to the case that cutting glucose will NOT starve and kill ALL cancer, I will cite the case of breast cancer were there is two type of cancerous cells with complimentary metabolism.

The first use glucose to produce pyruvate that is converted to lactate, then excreted outside the cell. This is a cell exibiting the Warburg effect.

The second, is able to absorb lactate from the other kind of cell and convert it into pyruvate, then the pyruvate is feed into the mitochondrion where it is converted into energy.

If you cut dietary intake of glucose precursor, the body produce endogenous glucose, so glucose never disapear from blood. Body produce ketones, ketones are used as a fuel in the second type of cancerous cell since they have a functionning mitochondrion.

The first kind of cancer cell may be slowed down by the reduction of blood glucose, but the second type of cell is enhanced by the ketone presence! Also any lactate produced use blood transport to reach the liver, where it is converted into glucose by Cori cycle.

ETA: I want to make clear this post is NOT of purpose to dismiss the idea of lowering or stoping the intake of dietary glucose precursor, our metabolism is not adapted for consumption of large amount of carbs. This post is to demonstrate there is more to cancer than simply cut the sugar intake, but never say it is not a step in the good direction.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Sugar ages people.

Suggestion #1. Stop eating # that depletes alcalinity.

Yeah.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

stop spreading F E A R.

Sugar is good for some of us... sugar is needed for most of us. If you don't keep your levels intact, you could end up diabetic.

So keep eating your chocolate, cakes and other sweets.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

stop spreading F E A R.

Sugar is good for some of us... sugar is needed for most of us. If you don't keep your levels intact, you could end up diabetic.

So keep eating your chocolate, cakes and other sweets.

Any and everything which contirbutes to the diminishment of our bodys alkaline state will contribute to the creation of a cancer sympathetic environment in your body....cancer is a mould or fungus.....it must have specific environmental requirements met but once those are met in any area of the body then the cancer or mould can grow.

Diabetes like all diseases has causality connected to the internal condition of our body and the un-managed workings of parasites within our body .

If you already have an imbalance and stop treating yourself conventionally you may hurt your self you must begin to treat the causality which is a parasite infested body holding an acidic environment IN CO_OPERATION with your doctor so as to wean yourself off of drugs as your normal body state is returned.

This is the double-jeopardy of pharmacuticals.....once get your body unbalanced and do not know it or how to fix it then you begin them ..... and you must properly wean yourself off them without quitting cold turkey or they could hurt you even more.

IMHO you should always work with your medical doctor and if he or she is unwilling to work with you openly then LEAVE that medical person immediatly and find one who is more willing to fight big Pharma and be more honest.

Chocolate,cakes,and other sweets are pure poison for people who do not have an alkaline body state and who do not manage this part of their health.....anyone telling you to eat these foods without knowing how these foods impact our internal body state may be in err.

a reply to: one4all

Keep it balanced then... is all I'm saying.

I've been eating chocolate since I was a kid and also since giving up cigarettes I've had fruit pastilles & wine gums instead. I'm fit and healthy and also jog twice a week when the weathers good. I still have an athletic frame. Different foods have different affects on different people, we aren't all wired the same.

a reply to: Cofactor

What effects do HGH and HGF associated with high intensity exercise, quality sleep, and intermittent fasting have on cancer. Has there been research on that? Maybe ketosis can fuel certain cancers, but can those act as a counter balance?

And what about autophagy and apoptosis?

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: one4all

Keep it balanced then... is all I'm saying.

I've been eating chocolate since I was a kid and also since giving up cigarettes I've had fruit pastilles & wine gums instead. I'm fit and healthy and also jog twice a week when the weathers good. I still have an athletic frame. Different foods have different affects on different people, we aren't all wired the same.

Different foods provide your body with different raw materials......how the alkaline[good] or acidic[bad] the internal state of your body is and how infected you are with parasitic blooms will influence what types and what volumes of these ingested raw materials ever get to your body and how efficiently your body can process those raw materials which get through the parasitic firewall and all of the damages it causes..........we are all infected by parsites...everyone everywhere 24/7/365 and the relationship is not symbiotic both ways for we are hosts being used.....every living creature on earth has a parasitic enemy and carries parasites and MUST POLICE AND MANAGE THEM OR DIMINISH AND DIE.

Yes Dorothy....we were are and always have been lied to about our lifelong relationship with our mortal enemy the parasites who have killed more human beings on earth than anything else ever.......you your children your grandchildren your brothers and sisters fathers and mothers friends foes workmates everyone in between.....they do not clarify or teach this in schools and there is organised global suppression of this reality....or rather there WAS global suppression until the internet was created and content grew.

I credit WCB canada for providing me with the time and impetus to post this for had this arm of the global Insurance industry fiat money laundering monster not wrongfully dismissed disenfranchised and disentitled yet one more little guy .....I would have been to busy living a normal life to learn and share some of the things found in the public domain.Special thank you to the late and respected humanitarian philanhropist Dr.Hulda Clark[please read her books] rest her soul.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Cofactor

What effects do HGH and HGF associated with high intensity exercise, quality sleep, and intermittent fasting have on cancer. Has there been research on that? Maybe ketosis can fuel certain cancers, but can those act as a counter balance?

And what about autophagy and apoptosis?

Having been a high functioning /Olympic level athlete prior to getting older and not being athleic and pushing my body hot and hard and learning about parasitic impacts on humanity and on myself......I believe that high internal temperatures kill parasites and can cook their eggs providing positive impacts of differing degrees.....this is what NA Indians were doing when they used the SweatLodge to cure diseases and cancer....they were McGyvering high technology and medical knowledge without the benefit of similarlevel materials technology or availability.

Fasting deprives current parasite blooms of food and starves them....this gives your bodys autoimmune system an opportunity to stop fighting thousands of battles all over the body and this shows up as a MEASURABLE increase which science has already connected to fasting[they just dont expound and be truthfull about the parasitic influences]......this is a temporary reprieve because your body is loaded with billions of parasite eggs at any given time if you have spent your life deprived of anti-parasitic foods ........which almost EVERYONE HAS........and these eggs produce parasites with differing lifespans that re-colonise from within immediatly ............. a good example of this processes side effects of starving and killing the parasite blooms is illustrated by burping out the gasses/chemicals produced by the decaying parasites and on one TV show where 2 people are stranded on a boat in the ocean with no food....lol......after the starving period is over everyone gets the side-effects some worse than others.

Sleep always helps our body maintain itself optimally.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What effects do HGH and HGF associated with high intensity exercise, quality sleep, and intermittent fasting have on cancer. Has there been research on that?

All cancer are different, it depend on presence and quantity of receptors at surface of cancer cells. For example, some breast cancer are HER2 positive, making them sensitive to this growth factor. On subject related to sport doping, like hGH, my knowledge is very limited, but my educated guess would be to avoid growth hormone if you are affraid of cancer. Also, high intensity exercise produce inflamation, that in turn promote cancer. Too much exercise is as bad as not enough!

Maybe ketosis can fuel certain cancers, but can those act as a counter balance?

If the question Is: Are some (those) cancers capable to react (counter balance) to the ketosis?

As described in previous post, my understanding is a definite yes for certain "symbiotic" cancer like breast, and a most probable yes for the other kinds. I consider cancer cells as being in a reverted form with all evolution conserved mechanism of survival fully activated, making it highly adaptable and reactive to situation unfavorable to its survival. When you check the disease progression for a cancer patient, it is truely depressing to see that all treatments results in an exponentially increase in resistance of cancer to chemotherapeutic agents. In the end nothing work.