Return of 'ocean chimney' the size of Tasmania puzzles Antarctic scientists

It is not the first time this has happened. It is a natural occurring phenomena.
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: gimcrackery
It is not the first time this has happened. It is a natural occurring phenomena.
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The mechanics of which aren't fully understood. Calderas blowing up are a naturally occurring phenomena too.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Great thread! Thanks.

I thought I would post before it gets derailed into a fact-free, Pro-AGW zone.

originally posted by: pravdaseeker
Dear ATS Readers,

For it "open up" so quickly, 5 days.. is what should raise some eyebrows..

Pravdaseeker

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I don't think it's just 5 days, it seems to have been reseen again since last year, general video below. (interesting thread op)



Tutorrial video,



A possible connection, a continuity of a Polynya in the Weddell Sea ...salt concentrations....

journals.ametsoc.org...

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Not to mention that we know that the Earth started warming naturally in the early 1600s before the high rise of atmospheric CO2 from around the 1850s-1900s.

False equivalency. The little ice age was caused by aerosols due to a series of volcanic eruptions. The rate of warming afterwards is comparable to the one preceding the Medieval warm period, which is why people tend to call it what it is: the end of a little ice age.

You're comparing said recovery with the golbal warming of 1C° due to industrialisation, which is where you've lost me.

. So did AGW cause the Medieval Warm Period or the one during Roman Times?

Who cares. Apples and oranges?

It's roughly half the rate in which global warming occurs now, reaching for a strawman? You think half a boy makes a man, too?

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Great thread! Thanks.

I thought I would post before it gets derailed into a fact-free, Pro-AGW zone.

Exactly!

a reply to: PublicOpinion

You are the one making the false equivalency claim.

False equivalency. The little ice age was caused by aerosols due to a series of volcanic eruptions. The rate of warming afterwards is comparable to the one preceding the Medieval warm period, which is why people tend to call it what it is: the end of a little ice age.

Both of those periods had similar warming, the Roman and Medieval periods. It's something models have not been able to duplicate well. There are many cycles affecting our weather. This event in Antarctica might help add another piece to this puzzle. Was it warmer in those two periods than today? Why?

Nice catch on the lying sax of dirt. If the heat transfers down, it goes through a medium which also would conduct heat and it would be measurable. Super secret magic pixi water doesn't exist to isolate itself from the other ocean water to travel the invisible man made heat down 1000 meters.

"scientists are puzzled"

I hate it when scientists say that, it sounds stupid..
Like ,actually we perfectly know what this is all about but if we are "Baffled or Puzzled or we stumble upon " so we don't have to say anything to the press.

Those poor little scientists. ..

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I don't doubt the science, and believe we should try and live in harmony with nature rather than spending our energy trying to defeat it.

All the same, I'm lost as to the language here, and need some help:

" Moore said the polynya was releasing about 800 watts of energy per square metre – equivalent to about 14 60-watt light bulbs blazing away day and night. "

The web site below tells me 800 watts is needed to run a coffee maker, that is bring water to a very hot, steaming if not scalding, tempreture.

So, could I expect to see the polynya actively steaming, rather than 'passively' evapourating?

learn.compactappliance.com...

originally posted by: jrod
Also it should be noted that volcanoes contribute a cooling effect to the atmosphere as the particles they spew out cause a dimming effect.

Figures the OP has to take a shot at and call global warming a lie.

While this is an interesting find, it does not change the human impact on the climate.

You are so confused you can't even understand these are underwater volcanoes. The only thing escaping to the surface and to the atmosphere from underwater volcanic activity/geothermal activity at these depths are gases, and not particulae that would cause a dimming effect...

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
...
You're comparing said recovery with the golbal warming of 1C° due to industrialisation, which is where you've lost me.

Except that the warming the Earth has been experiencing started in the early 1600s, over 250+ years before the height of the industrial revolution. Then again you also are ignoring/dismissing the fact that as the Earth has been warming since the 1600s, the warmer the atmosphere got, the more water vapor levels the atmosphere could contain and would increase, and water vapor is the greenhouse gas in the Earth's Troposphere that causes 97% or more of the greenhouse effect. So it hasn't been CO2 the one that has increased temperatures so much, it has been Water Vapor, and water vapor activity is 99.9% natural.

Then there i also the fact that warming hasn't been constant. For example, from 1898-1998 CO2 levels in Earth's atmosphere increased by 71 ppm and temperature in general increased by ~ 0.8 degrees C. This was happening during a time when "aerosols supposedly should have been causing cooling"... Yet from 1998 -2016 atmospheric CO2 levels increased 39 ppm, which is more than half the increase in atmospheric CO2 that occurred between 1898-1998, yet temperatures only increased by ~0.1 degrees C. Which once again points to the fact that CO2 is not the greenhouse gas that has been causing the warming.

This is Why it is Not Possible that CO2 is the Cause of Global Warming.

You are also making a false argument that all the CO2 that has increased since the industrial revolution should have been anthropogenic, when during warming cycles the Earth natural emission of greenhouse gases, including atmospheric CO2 also increases "naturally".

Then of course there is this fact that has happened as well.

Molten iron river discovered speeding beneath Russia and Canada

As well as the dramatic changes that have been occurring to Earth's magnetic field, and the dramatic changes occurring in the Sun which point to the fact that Earth's interior has also been changing dramatically which would be the reason why Antartica and other regions have been experiencing and increase in geothermal and volcanic activity.

a reply to: smurfy

Cool videos, but I think there might be a mistake in the first video. According to Mark Brandon, who is an environmental scientist who has been studying this phenomenon, this time around the hole started opening in September 2017, didn't see anything about the opening starting in 2016, but of course i could be wrong.

It only took a month for the hole to open up again.

Maud Rise Polynya to 17 Sept 2017

Here is a time span of when the whole opened in 2017.



mallemaroking.org...

What could have happened is that the hole closed sometime in 2016-2017, and has opened again. It is still weird also because what is said is that the last time the hole opened up was in the 1970s. There was no mention of the hole opening in 2016, even in the main article in the op.

How long did it take the climate change fanatics to grab ahold of this?

The "hole" is really an indicator that the water temperature at the surface is greater than the melting point of water. By the looks of the animation, it started off as two holes, then merged into one. At the ocean bed, there are probably two heat sources each creating plumes of heat like two burning candles. Those heat sources might not switch off but simply cool down a bit so that the surface is cold enough for ice to form.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I would say there are many volcanoes spewing and the amount of oil that can be exported from there is another reason why it's melting. They've had ice breakers in area for 40 years plus. Wouldn't ice breakers digging in the ice shelf do something ?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Stop the personal attacks.

Surface volcanoes spew ash that causes a dimming effect.

You are trying to claim that underwater volcanoes are causing an unaccounted for warming effect while rejecting any possibility that man is causing the observed warming.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Stop the personal attacks.

Surface volcanoes spew ash that causes a dimming effect.

You are trying to claim that underwater volcanoes are causing an unaccounted for warming effect while rejecting any possibility that man is causing the observed warming.

What?... since when is pointing out that your sentence makes no sense a "personal attack"?... i wasn't attacking you, was pointing that your sentence makes no sense since no one has written what you stated in that sentence.

BTW, in case you didn't notice, these scientists who seem to be die-hard believers in AGW are the ones stating that the warming is down to 1,000 meters under the ocean... I did not make that statement...

Not to mention that the claim that Professor James Renwick is making is that in less than 167 years, somehow anthropogenic CO2 transferred the heat in the atmosphere since the industrial revolution down lower than 1,000 meters below the surface of the ocean, and that that same heat has surfaced within that time frame, which is impossible. Most of the heat from the atmosphere that occurred in the 1850s and forward hasn't even reached that depth yet. Yet Renwick wants to claim that anthropogenic CO2 now has some new magical property that transferred the heat below 1,000 meters, and then that heat raised to the surface in less than 167 years.

In their attempt to keep trying to blame mankind for all the changes Earth is undergoing, their argument is crumbling in the face of facts.

I'm not going to get into the AGW debate.

But if increasing geothermal heat is causing holes to melt in the continental ice sheet above it, then ocean water levels are going to increase.

Increasing geothermal heat on the ocean ice shelf would increase calving. While calving itself doesn't necessarily increase water levels, the loss of the shelf allows more of the continental ice sheet to migrate to the ocean. Which causes ocean water levels to increase.

Additional geothermal heat transferred to the oceans causes the water to expand, thus causing ocean water levels to increase.

Loss of the ice sheet, as well as the ice shelf, decreases the surface albedo of the region. Thus absorbing more solar radiation and increasing the area's temperatures. Thus accelerating the melting of Antarctic ice.

A perfect positive feedback cycle without the use of CO2.

That's some good doom porn that transcends the AGW argument!

-dex