Once Again There Are Calls for Gun Control, but How are England/Wales Doing With Gun Control?

a reply to: djz3ro
First, let me apologize to the people of the United Kingdom. My flippant reply was in poor taste and should not have been posted.

Let me further apologize to my fellow Americans. I allowed my temper and lack of etiquette reflect poorly on all of us.

We live in different societies. I've been to Ireland as well as England. I've been all over the United States and Europe. They are all dangerous places if you are not careful and they are all beautiful places if you take the time to look.

The problem with comparing crime stats is how crimes are viewed as well as our very societies themselves. European countries have a totally different view on "crime" as well as "policing" than we do in America.

Europeans couldn't imagine a militarized police force just as Americans couldn't imagine unarmed law enforcement officers.

Americans have two things that almost guarantee there will never be a gun ban in the States. A desire for individual protection/defense which stems from lack of trust in our government from city to federal. The other is stubbornness that derives from an inborn sense of self determination.

a reply to: djz3ro

The white guilt issue here is PARAMOUNT to be THE primary threat to freedom in America in order for PC factions to continue..

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
Can people learn statistics before quoting them to make point. If I compare a change in crime rate for the same area such as a year on year on change then that has meaning. If you compare the same figure between countries it is totally meaningless because your base figure is different.

Country A has gun control and crime rises 10% last year
Country B has no gun control and crime rises 4% last year

Yahoo yahoo get rid of control.......erm no because you don't have the base figure:
...

Can people learn to respond without making false claims?...

First of all the statistics listed in this thread are ALL FOR ENGLAND AND WALES... These statistics show that IN ENGLAND AND WALES gun crimes have continued to increase despite their strict gun control laws.

"yahoo yahoo we need gun control"... Not really because you have no idea what you are talking about and you are making false claims...

originally posted by: Painterz
These statistics are a little dishonest.

A 13 percent increase in incidents was what, around 4800 to 5600 or so? And that's all incidents in which a firearm was reported. Not used. Just reported.


If you look at the firearm death rates, a different picture emerges.

In the Uk, 0.23 per 100,000, or 145 deaths. One of the lowest in the world.
In the US, 10.54 per 100,000, or 33,612 dead people.

Your statistics are dishonest. You seem to be assuming that all states in the United States have the same gun control laws which is not true, you know what they say about assuming?

For example.

If we use gun crime in Chicago alone, which has very strict gun control laws, it has had as of September 18th 500 homicides in 2017.

Chicago reaches 500 homicides in 2017 with latest weekend gun violence
Chicago News 09/18/2017, 10:01pm

Weekend gun violence across Chicago pushed the city to 500 homicides since the start of the year, as 11 people were killed, four of them in a single shooting, and 29 others wounded in attacks across Chicago between Friday evening and Monday morning.

The victims in the quadruple homicide were among 465 people shot to death this year in Chicago, according to data maintained by the Chicago Sun-Times. In all, 500 deaths in the city have been ruled homicides since the start of the year.
...

chicago.suntimes.com...

That's not including the total amount of attempted homicides with guns which can be 3,000+ attempted homicides with guns.

Chicago recorded its deadliest month in two decades in August 2016, part of a sharp rise in gun violence in the nation’s third-largest city this year. The Labor Day weekend saw 65 people shot, 13 fatally. So far in 2016, the city has had more than 500 homicides and more than 2,953 people have been victims of shootings, according to the Chicago Tribune.
...

www.cbsnews.com...

The great majority of gun violence in Chicago is black on black gun violence.

If we look at New York, another city in the U.S. with very strict gun control laws as of June 2015 in that year there were 510 shooting victims, with 135 homicides with guns and 439 shooting incidents.

www.nydailynews.com...

If you take a look at a county such as (Miami-Dade) in another state (FL) which includes several major cities and that does not have the strict gun control laws that New York and Chicago have there is a big difference.

In 2016 from January to December there were a total of 84 homicides of all types, including those in which guns were used.

www.miamidade.gov...

Here is an example of total homicides, of all types, that have occurred in Miami-Dade county, Florida. (This is an entire county and not just the city of Miami.)

Miami-Dade County, Florida
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
Miami-Dade County is included in the Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Also, according to a study of gun violence in Miami-Dade county, the majority of the victims in Miami-Dade county are black males.

Study: Gun Violence In Miami-Dade Disproportionately Affects Young Black Men
By Nadege Green • Apr 26, 2017
...
Gun shot injuries in Miami-Dade County are largely happening in a cluster of neighborhoods and disproportionately affect young black men, according to a recent study.
...
It also found that while black people make up 19 percent of the population in Miami-Dade County, just over 70 percent of victims treated at Jackson for gunshot wounds were black males.
...

wlrn.org...

Since those clustering of neighborhoods are black, the greater majority of gun crimes in Miami-Dade is also black on black gun violence.

Here is another website showing that there were 75 murders in Miami, but it doesn't show the year.
(took out this link because they don't say the year or why their number would be different than that the police in Miami-Dade county gives)

As a matter of fact, the entire state of Florida has about the same amount of murders with guns than Chicago alone has, and Chicago, like New York, and other cities have stricter gun control laws than Florida. (actually that is wrong. The state of Florida has about twice the murders of the city of Chicago.)

www.850wftl.com...

The population in the entire state of Florida is 18,801,310 as of 2016-2017
suburbanstats.org...

That's while the city of Chicago has 2,720,546 as of 2016

worldpopulationreview.com...

The city of New York has a population of about 19,889,657

worldpopulationreview.com...

The city of New York has almost twice the number of murders that Miami-Dade county (which is comprised of several cities) has.

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

There might be an increase in gun crime but I bet my bottom quid [1GBP) that number would rise significantly if we adopted the American, bat$hit crazy gun laws....

Well, cities like Chicago have adopted similar gun control laws as in England, and Chicago has more murders with guns, and attempted murders with guns than any city in the U.S. that does not have the gun control laws Chicago has.

So you are making a false assumption, more so because cities and states in the U.S. which have adopted very strict gun control laws have more crimes with guns, and homicides with guns than cities and states that do not have such strict gun control laws.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The problem you don't seem to understand is that American has as many firearms as it does people or more so. Guns can flood into any state from anywhere so laws and gun control will do little to stop an already flooded country and a culture that wants firearms for their protection no matter what the cost.

You also seem to be want to show Great Britain in a bad light to make America seem less "wild west" or to take away any talk of reducing gun crime, yet the statistics show that Great Britains gun violence would have to rocket through the roof to get even close the USA, which doesn't seem possible to me as it would be hard to flood the UK with firearms to match the gun per capita of the USA.
Also air rifles, BB guns and airsoft weapons could be included in some statistics when the general public report seeing a gun or if an armed response unit is sent to the scene. This can skew the amount of crime reported just as you are trying to reduce the number in the USA due to suicide.

I'm not denying that crime is on the increase in the UK but to try and compare the two countrys is like comparing apples to oranges and I hope it stays that way.

USA today compares gun crime USA today news article

BBC guns in the US BBC news article