who decides what is disrespectful?

that is an honest question because i am curious. i have been thinking about this the past couple days with all this crap going on with the NFL players kneeling. a lot of people on here(and everywhere really) are outraged(though i suspect a good deal of it is fake) by these players kneeling. they say it is disrespectful.
lets say for this conversation that it is a fact that it is disrespectful.
how can that be measured though?
who decides that and who is right?

it seems to me in reading these boards and talking with people in the world that people are pretty much split on this issue. some say it is disrespectful and they should be fined etc for doing it and others say it is not disrespectful and they have every right to do this.

not just civilians either. there are some vets on this board that say it is disrespectful and some say that is the reason they fought. free speech and what not.

so who decides if it is disrespectful and what makes their views correct?


the president has said he thinks they should be fired.
my boss's brother is a vet and is super pissed about this and neither one of them are watching football now. too disrespectful.
there is another guy at work who is a vet and says that this is the reason he fought freedom and liberties.

both sides can't be right. so is and hos is respect measured?

thanks

a reply to: TinySickTears

The side wanting to control other people is incorrect.

Respect is something you earn, not measure.

Demanding respect has an obvious outcome of an even greater loss of respect.

i just popped in another thread and saw this from one of our members here

As a veteran, I still fail to see how kneeling is disrespectful to the flag, to veterans, to the nation, or to patriotism. I have more of a problem with idiots talking during the anthem, or players that refuse to come out until after the anthem is played. Free speech is free speech. Whether it's athletes or civilians.

is this person wrong?

Me

Cause if you disrespect me...You have a problem.

If you are disrespected. I could care less.

So it's like beauty, it's in the mind of the disrespected.

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
a reply to: TinySickTears

The side wanting to control other people is incorrect.

i agree

something else i never really thought about til i heard it mentioned elsewhere.
what about the people that run to take a piss or to the concession stand for another beer and a dog while they anthem is on? are they disrespectful too?
serious question

i mean if it is such a big deal to respect the flag then it is probably not a good idea to use the moment the anthem comes on to run for some swill before the big game starts.

you know

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Me

Cause if you disrespect me...You have a problem.

If you are disrespected. I could care less.

So it's like beauty, it's in the mind of the disrespected.

Only you can decide what is disrespectful.

I think the kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful.

Freedom is a beautiful thing.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Me

Cause if you disrespect me...You have a problem.

If you are disrespected. I could care less.

So it's like beauty, it's in the mind of the disrespected.

is kneeling for the flag disrespecting you?
i wont argue it because if you feel disrespected then you are. you are not wrong for that.
that is kind of what i am getting at. each person measures it different.
what you feel is disrespectful may not be to someone else so who gets to decide these things for the masses?

a reply to: TinySickTears I have many of friends and family members who have and are still fighting and all agree that they are and have faught for that very right. The only ones that I have noticed outside of my circle are the ones that follow the Don to the word. Also did you know he tried to buy a NFL team in the past after his team in another sport failed, and the NFL banned him for ever getting a team. We all know the Don to be a bitter person. Maybe this whole kneeling thing is him trying to get back at them

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
a reply to: TinySickTears

Demanding respect.

i want to touch on this too.

lets say for this conversation that it has been measured and it is a fact that kneeling is disrespectful. so people are forced to stand. that does not mean they are respecting the flag. they are standing cause it is forced and if it is forced it is an empty display.
why is an empty display better than a disrespectful one?

a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes, they are disrespectful, but only to those who are offended to a disrespectful level.

Another similar conversation is flag paraphernalia. Is a Flag Fanny pack disrespectful?

Is a 'flag burning' on a 'shirt graphic' disrespectful?

Is someone wearing 'too much' USA things disrespectful out of irony?

The correct side is very apparent, because the side demanding respect has too many loose ends to appease within reason.

To be blunt, this isn't just about standing for the anthem essentially. It's more.

a reply to: TinySickTears

It's not, that should be the nail in the coffin argument.

But it's ignored.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: TinySickTears I have many of friends and family members who have and are still fighting and all agree that they are and have faught for that very right. The only ones that I have noticed outside of my circle are the ones that follow the Don to the word.

i am feeling that too. i dont have many friends and family members who served but i know dudes at work. my step dad. my brother is in the navy now.
i noticed the same thing you said.
my brother who is more of a liberal/democratic type does not feel this is disrespectful but my step dad is is more strict right feels this a huge slap in the face.
my brother is navy and my step dad is ex navy. father and son with service in the same branch and even they dont agree

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
a reply to: TinySickTears

Demanding respect.

i want to touch on this too.

lets say for this conversation that it has been measured and it is a fact that kneeling is disrespectful. so people are forced to stand. that does not mean they are respecting the flag. they are standing cause it is forced and if it is forced it is an empty display.
why is an empty display better than a disrespectful one?

My question is if the kneeling for the Anthem wasn't meant to be disrespectful to the flag then why not kneel any other time during the game? They know it will offend people so they do it for attention.

If you perceive a serious problem in society is it not your duty to use whatever platform you have to bring this out into the open? Patriotic even. One attempting to shut down, or shout down those would not be patriotic then. Who in this would then be disrespectful?

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes, they are disrespectful, but only to those who are offended to a disrespectful level.

Another similar conversation is flag paraphernalia. Is a Flag Fanny pack disrespectful?

.

you make a good point and ask a good question.

my boss who says this is disrespectful and will not watch football until they stand more often than not wears an american flag bandana/rag on his head most of the day

a reply to: TinySickTears Before the whole you don't have to put you hand over your heart thing started. I would salute in school during the prayer. I honer those who have and are defending America. I would never put a hand to the heart for a country and a belief that I sometimes do not agree with. But a salute is different.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
a reply to: TinySickTears

Demanding respect.

i want to touch on this too.

lets say for this conversation that it has been measured and it is a fact that kneeling is disrespectful. so people are forced to stand. that does not mean they are respecting the flag. they are standing cause it is forced and if it is forced it is an empty display.
why is an empty display better than a disrespectful one?

My question is if the kneeling for the Anthem wasn't meant to be disrespectful to the flag then why not kneel any other time during the game? They know it will offend people so they do it for attention.

Because the flag represents the country that they feel doesn't represent them.

a reply to: Metallicus

i dont think it is about offense but about the attention.
they want their issue to be paid attention to so they picked the time when people would notice most.

as i asked before.

if it is so important and so respectful to stand for the anthem then how do you feel about all the people that use that time as a moment to piss or get a beer or a big ass foam finger?

a reply to: TinySickTears

To me, a bandana is worse than a fanny pack even,

but the point is that type of apparel is actually spelled out as disrespect of the flag legally.


It depends on the setting greatly though. If he's at home, or somewhere casual it matters far less.

It depends on how crass is crass to the individual. But your boss is officially disrespecting the flag spelled out by writing itself, so what gives with who has the right to be offended? Seems like faux patriotism, to redefine boundaries and claim a 'who's who' of a concept as ambiguous as 'American'. This is racism at work. Special treatment and voice for some, but not particularly the exact same rights for others.

The Pope ?