Elon Musk says Tesla can rebuild Puerto Rico's power grid, if given the chance

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Blaine91555

People need to be careful that's all. PR is hurting, and all of a sudden Musk comes to the plate. I am just being a little skeptical.

Yes, but would you also be critical if no company came forward and offered to help?

Glass half full and glass half empty don't mix. I get your skepticism though.

a reply to: neo96

So Musk is making a poor business decision on Kauai? I'm pretty sure the panels are well secured.

floridasolardesigngroup.com...

a reply to: Phage

Just how secure are solar panels that have cars,trucks,boats,trees dropped on them and in some cases through them?

Let Tesla have a shot at it. It would seem ridiculous to just put back the same old technology when you have a clean sheet to start with. I'd want to see some kind of warranty though.

a reply to: neo96

Probably as secure as above ground power lines. Which, at the moment is the problem anyway.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neo96

Probably as secure as above ground power lines. Which, at the moment is the problem anyway.

Cheap to fix.

Cheap to bury.

Compared to a major multi billion dollar project.

a reply to: neo96

I don't know what part of what I said is hard to understand. They're both used to store energy. One of them is continuously refilled via solar panels and the other requires an entire infrastructure to refill.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Phage

Do you know what happens in a hurricane ?

bye bye solar panels.

Again, the cheapest and easiest to replace item, however, you should visit Tesla's articles and find out how they are caged and mounted.

Infrastructure in the granularity of pole transformers or less, underground, in faraday cages, interchangeable battery packs and grid electronics that hot swap. Wiring and fiber optics encapsulation in resistant sheathing and cores built to last many decades. This is big stuff and it only gets better as we move along. Worried about EMP? This is the kind of modularity that could POSSIBLY not be totally wiped out by one.

To those opposed to this because of the implications of monopoly, I think you are missing a valuable piece of information. All these electrical companies are private but receive massive subsidies. I just got back from working in Florida working with many of these companies after Irma, they did a great job, but they were all private. The entire infrastructure was long ago sold off to corporations, but it kind of had to be. A central agency is just writing the standards for these companies, but it would be impossible for that same agency to provide the entire staff effectively. What you guys are so upset about is essentially adding another competitor, (one with new ideas, even), to an already small marketplace with huge monopolies in place.

a reply to: ventian

i think Musk was in another realm when he envisioned what we would require in the future, down to the nuts and bolts.
Real insight and resulting engineering with absolutely NO HYPE, UT Video propaganda and dubious magicians.

As such, he invents his own infrastructure that does away with having to be 'tooled up' to patch and repair an old system.
When the old system fails to total destruction, he is there waving his hand.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Phage

Right because everyone lives near the tropics.

I forgot.

The false dichotomy are those pushing alternative energy as a solution to energy demands.

One of the biggest failures is exactly what happened in PR.

Mother nature is a SNIP.

Not sure of your point but solar would be an excellent choice for the island. If he can make it affordable they would be foolish not to. Problem i see cost for them solar panels arent cheap and the batteries are a huge expense as well. And when itbecame time to replace them im not confident they would have the money to do so.

a reply to: dragonridr

Another thing to mention would be Musk's investments in Graphene technologies for both his batteries and panels.
Graphene deposition is amorphous. It can be deposited in atom thick layers, and promises to be the revolution needed in storage technology, as the manufacturing process is being designed to be super sustainable and geared to mass production. These atom thick layers can be isolated from one another or gated in three dimensions (what they are trying to perfect now). Heady stuff.

In retrospect, I was contracted to Mobil via DEC back in the 80's. They were pioneering the growth of silicon crystals and pulling the cores up to the ceiling from a plasma amorphous deposition engine. It was amazing and you could not look at it too long because it was so bright. I was only working on their computers that interfaced it, so certainly not privy to the science. Even then, the cores had to be cut in wafers, and there was no electrical isolation between the amorphous layers it deposited.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Phage

Just how secure are solar panels that have cars,trucks,boats,trees dropped on them and in some cases through them?

Sure, and don't forget planet killing meteors. No power source is going to be 100% proof from natural disasters. But smaller grid areas, coupled with distributed generation areas provide as degree of robustness that a centralized power source cannot. Plus it easier to get back online

Also, alot of the thinking about solar reflects old knowledge. Panels are the cheapest part of the system. Four years ago we installed a 5 kWp system on our house and the panels (20 in total 250W per) were about 20% of the system. Its much much cheaper now. If the panels are a weak spot their infrastructure is pretty robust and you could re-panel our roof in about an hour using 2 guys

originally posted by: FredT
you can fight it or you can realize the potential. Traditional power companies are in a death spiral and when super cheap storage becomes mainstream then they are done.

In the case of an island that has alot of sun, small local grids with storage, that are then linked to other small grids, provide a degree of robustness. That is if one grid is damaged, and the other is okay it can simply power the local micro-grid until repairs are made.

It makes overall repair easier. Plus it reduces the need to import coal or NG to power your generation plants. You will still need plants for peaking etc, but a large enough storage grid can also perhaps in time eliminate that need. Add is some pumped hydraulic storage which in industry terms 'Dispatch-able" to harness excess when the battery banks are full and you really have something.

None of this is hocus pocus. Tesla has a major installation in Kauai, and an Island in American Samoa is almost 100% solar with batteries. www.engadget.com...

Your optimism is way over the top.

Apparently you do not realize who runs this planet.

Super cheap storage will never exist..and if those scum are not removed from the Universe nothing good will ever come of any of it.

The last millions of years are evidence enough.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: charlyv

Not really the point I was getting at.
The issue is that he is capitalizing on the situation, PR has their own infrastructure, he can invest by donating, but does he need to barge his way in and start governing power for those residents?
It says in the article that he already has a major hold over other small Islands. He controls their power, he allows THEM to have electricity, people pay HIM to use his power. Is it government controlled? Maybe a little, but at the end of the day Tesla is literally the Lord / Baron / King, etc. of electricity, it's feudalism.

The problem with what you just said is that every city in America is under a power company monopoly with a lord, baron, king running our power. In Nevada our monoply is Nevada power but each region has it's on fuedal power company.

Why wouldn't you want competition?

Because the competition never benefits the public?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: charlyv

Not really the point I was getting at.
The issue is that he is capitalizing on the situation, PR has their own infrastructure, he can invest by donating, but does he need to barge his way in and start governing power for those residents?
It says in the article that he already has a major hold over other small Islands. He controls their power, he allows THEM to have electricity, people pay HIM to use his power. Is it government controlled? Maybe a little, but at the end of the day Tesla is literally the Lord / Baron / King, etc. of electricity, it's feudalism.

The problem with what you just said is that every city in America is under a power company monopoly with a lord, baron, king running our power. In Nevada our monoply is Nevada power but each region has it's on fuedal power company.

Why wouldn't you want competition?

Because the competition never benefits the public?

originally posted by: amazing
Yep. It always takes entrepreneurship to handle the worlds problems and it's the only way innovation happens.

It's called "disruptive technology". Once companies achieve a monopoly and become the incumbent provider, there is no incentive for them to take a loss introducing new technology.

Telephone companies drag their feet in providing high-speed DSL/ADSL, until the cable companies moved into the area and provided internet services. Cable companies will not provide top-tier high-speed internet until there is another competitor and even then, given the chance they will try and squash any attempts at introducing community cable systems.

There is no incentive for power generation companies who own hydroelectric, nuclear or gas power stations to invest in solar or wind power. It is up to entrepreneurs to build solar panels and wind turbines, since they are taking the risk in
return for getting a slice of the energy market profits.

originally posted by: stormcell
It's called "disruptive technology". Once companies achieve a monopoly and become the incumbent provider, there is no incentive for them to take a loss introducing new technology.

Yep, SPOT ON! The ability to generate or at least have some control over your power generation is quite liberating both literally and figuratively.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Reverbs

It would be nice in the future I do imagine we are headed that way. One of the tricks to it would be having battery banks to store power and even store power from a long way away..

To state the obvious.

A stand by generator and a few hundred gallon propane tank is still cheaper than what Tesla is selling for mass consumption.

People can even build their own storage banks too.

You’re right. Nothwithstanding government subsidies, the levelized cost of electricity (LCOE [the cradle-to-grave cost]) generated from solar (any type) is still less cost-effective than that of any conventional hydrocarbon-based generation.

Solar is a nice piece of the Energy generation portfolio, but this notion it’s a ‘silver bullet’ is all hype. Lazard’s LCOE

originally posted by: ParasuvO
Your optimism is way over the top.

Apparently you do not realize who runs this planet.

Super cheap storage will never exist..and if those scum are not removed from the Universe nothing good will ever come of any of it.

Its changing rapidly and people can and are taking advantage of it. As I mentioned in an earlier post there is a death spiral going on with traditional power generators

people install solar
power companies lobby and kill net meetering etc
People install batteries to keep their own
people buy more batteries
greater production decreases costs
more people buy batteries

etc etc