Why are we shocked ?

A question I keep asking myself in my own mind. Let me explain, a mass shooter who as far as we know was just a normal guy. Normal up until he decided to open fire on innocent people at a concert. But we watch all these shoot'em up bang bang movies & video games. I mean damn folks in John Wick 1 Keanu Reeves character kills 77 people. In John Wick II his character kills 128. We are fans of this shat? Jack Reacher 1 & II he kills without feeling. Almost every movie that comes out is a shoot'em up bang bang movie. Almost all video games are war, fighting games, kill'em kil'lem all games.

I guess we all feel like this has zero effect on people? NEWS FLASH...it has a profound effect on our youth. Ever watched your kid watch a movie then go out an emulate that movie in the yard or at school. Well, some of those people it effects way more than others. Hollyweird needs to take a damn hard look at themselves, the video gaming industry needs to do the same. Kids learn what they live, that is a damn fact. In these movies & video games we are marginalizing death, we're making killing another a "game" without feelings. In these movies & games death is the "PURPOSE" of said game or movie. And we wonder why people like this Vegas nutcase do the things they do.

In these video games they let you keep track of your stats...kill ratios, kill totals, etc, etc, etc,. I mean come the hell on. We're overtly teaching killing as "game play". I could go on and on about the shhot'em up bang bang movies but I feel I've made my point and my rants over. Did'nt do this thread for a bunch of feed back..........Just look at all the movies involving killing coming out of Hollyweird and the violence in the "games" we let our youth play. Not saying this is why Vegas shooter did what he did, but it sure as hell aint helping.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

Hear hear,.

Additionally adding, Flags, Nationalism, and our beliefs system stemming from Religion and history of warfare.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

You do realize the shooter in Vegas was 64 years old?

How many 60 yr old people do you know play video games? Not saying none do, but the vast vast majority do not.

Just my opinion, but I think this theory is nonsensical given the context of this shooting.

a reply to: watchitburn

I play an online rpg. We have several people who are 50's 60's.

In hind sight, if the west hadn't become so overtly lazy and sedentary with all these fantastical entertaining escapes, I think this sh!t would happen a hell of a lot more often.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

When I was younger I hated the pmrc. Kinda think its a good idea now

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
I guess we all feel like this has zero effect on people? NEWS FLASH...it has a profound effect on our youth.

If your children are watching violent R-rated films and playing violent video games it is not society's fault.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: openyourmind1262

You do realize the shooter in Vegas was 64 years old?

How many 60 yr old people do you know play video games? Not saying none do, but the vast vast majority do not.

Just my opinion, but I think this theory is nonsensical given the context of this shooting.

I don't believe there is a link to video games and coming close to 50 I still play video games...cuphead looks like it will shorten my life span though

a reply to: openyourmind1262

It's kind of a cultural idiosyncrasy the U.S has always had.

From the gunfights of the Wild West to the Gangsters Feds shoot em ups and bank robberies to the mass shooters the gun has always been a central feature of U.S Culture. It is now in your genes, stamped on your DNA, no doubt.

Always prominent, the U.S open carries because it exists in your collective cultural psyche as a behaviour (the whole gun culture business even enshrined in the constitution as something sacred).

It therefore follows that in any kind of extreme moment a usual cultural behaviour can be enacted out of context. it is in your imagination, vivid and alive; Hollywood, Games, History, A Constitutional Right (encouraged and nurtured to extremes of refinement). You even are socialised into fearing the police because you know they can kill you with good cause. You are controlled by the gun to obey the law, Judge Dredd.

Okay, guns were big in this guy's life. Obviously he had a big interest that got unhealthy as his mental health deteriorated. Is that not quite usual? I have a big interest in spirituality. It occupies a lot of my psyche. When I have had a bad bipolar episode this has featured in my delusion.

It's science really. It makes sense. I'm afraid that this will keep happening and could get even deadlier if citizens get access to even more effective weapons. Weapons these days are so refined. The rudimentary design of guns and ammo of old meant that you were lucky just to score one hit on your target. With the accuracy and speed of modern weapons one target becomes many. For a weapon like a nuclear bomb, one becomes millions. Let's hope no leader has a "psychotic moment". Good that there are checks and balances, I expect even Lil Kim is kept balanced that way by his advisers.

I love violent video games and movies, never felt a urge to go out on a killing rampage.

I know a lot of Americans find this hard to acsept but I think the mass shootings might have more to do with the massive availability of guns than it is to do with violent movies.

a reply to: openyourmind1262


I don't think it's a big factor.
And you will never get hollywood to admit it might be their fault.

When I was growing up Al Gores wife was trying to blame every ill of society on rock music.
Their parental advisory label just told kids which albums to buy.

Personal option here.
The drugs people are given today are the reason we see so much violence. At one time these people killed themselves, now with the drugs, they rampage first.

The shooter was too old to be influenced by video games.....plus he was a gambler...would have spent his time in the casinos or online gambling ...not gambling .

Around early 2000's I watched a documentary about a village or town in Thailand, the long and short was that the majority of the occupants where Buddhist and many of the young men would become monks..

As the outside world slowly seeped into their community there was a case study to see if the introduction of TV and Movies had any effect on these people. Basically the meat and veg of the findings was that crime and esp violent crime sky rocketed along with a few other vices..

I wish I could remember who produced it, it is as relevant then as it is now..

Bottom line in todays world is that society in general is f#cked,



RA

a reply to: openyourmind1262

Let me point something out openyourmind1262.

I watched all manner of crazy stuff when I was a kid. Martial arts movies, war movies from multiple eras, action films, read comic books depicting badasses doing badass things...

How many people do you think I have killed? I am going to give you a hint, its less than one.

I never had PTSD as a result of a film I saw, nor did any film or television show, or other piece of media I have been exposed to, change my behaviour in the slightest. You know what did? Schooling. Being placed in a building full of vindictive and sociopathic individuals for the day, for twelve years solid. That made a mess of me, and it took time to correct the damage from that.

I would suggest, that movies and video games do NOT have an affect on what a youth thinks is appropriate.

I would also point out that mass carnage events pre-date significantly graphically violent media as a phenomenon, by approximately thirty years. Simply put, the things that drive people to do crazy things are not movies, television shows, or any other bloody similar visual media input. The thing that drives people to do insane things, in nearly every single case, is an unresolved traumatic experience. For some, its the realisation that the wife is cheating on them, but being unable to voice a concern on the matter because the emotions involved are so terrible, that one cannot actually utter them without either falling apart or lashing out. For others, its unresolved issues with ones father figure, stemming from childhood, all the way through adult hood, as it was with the UT Tower Sniper.

Eventually, what drove this man to do what he did WILL out. It always does, and I am willing to bet that it had nothing to do with the release of the Terminator movies, John Wick, Rambo or any other character from popular media, but a damned sight more to do with an interpersonal problem he could not solve, or, and this is so common that I cannot understand why people have not mentioned it more, he might just have been a total psychopath, born that way, dyed in the wool and invisible to the naked eye.

I am exposed to violent media all the time. My favourite movies have explosions, carnage, total chaos and damnation all around. My favourite music is just audiological violence at the best of times, and I have all manner of reasons to be furious with the world and next to every damned thing in it, and yet...I understand that violence other than in defence of the self and ones community, is wrong, and have no desire to partake in it.

If I, with all the violent input that my life has had, have no desire or compulsion to cause harm to innocent people for any reason, if I would rather die myself than do so, then its unlikely that the drivers you mention there have much, if anything at all to do with the matter.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Maybe not you, but you had some grounding in right and wrong I assume.

How many kids today are growing up without functional guidance in that topic? We live in an increasingly relativistic society where topics of right and wrong are becoming more and more subjective. Shades of gray are fashionable.

On the one hand, that's your moral background.

Now submerge yourself in a culture as violent and sexualized as the one around us that mostly preaches if it feels good, it is good.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: openyourmind1262


I don't think it's a big factor.
And you will never get hollywood to admit it might be their fault.

When I was growing up Al Gores wife was trying to blame every ill of society on rock music.
Their parental advisory label just told kids which albums to buy.

Personal option here.
The drugs people are given today are the reason we see so much violence. At one time these people killed themselves, now with the drugs, they rampage first.

There will always be an excuse. I could ask you why then did the U.S have big gun violence problems in the Wild West and with the Feds and Gangsters taking out innocents in their battles? You would tell me; Oh that's whiskey then.

I will tell you it's human nature. It is availability and ability. The Hollywood and games are a symptom, not a cause. They reflect the psyche and imagination, the cultural drives and interests. If you were not at least unconsciously interested in shooting people the games and movies would have no stimulation for you.

You like it. If you play those games you are being stimulated virtually by the images of shooting targets and the thrill of that. How can you argue with that? Do you play them because you like cute puppy dawgs? NOPE! Be sure that if you get off on this and it is in you if your mind goes wrong for any reason there is a possibility of a violent response on other people.

I don't like those kind of games nor the gun movies. I have no interest in weapons, not knives or guns. I have no interest in violence of any kind. I don't get off on it. When I had a bad bipolar episode I was passive and vulnerable taking thing in on myself. Some people when they get ill their violent drives show themselves. Plenty of mental health nurses, social workers and carers have been murdered by people in a psychotic state.

What thrills us tells us everything to know about nature. The games and the Hollywood exist because people like it. They get off on it so much they will pay a lot of money for it.

Okay, U.S I am saying your best step forward my little bro is to GET CONSCIOUS. You must develop clear lines of distinction between the real and the fantasy. When those lines break down hell comes to town sometimes.

This and so much more of course. I don't blame you. I don't say ban the guns. I say GET CONSCIOUS. If meds are causing problems and making people flip out and use a gun on people then it must be acknowledged and addressed. If mental health figures then be sure that when a guy or girl is poorly that way they don't have access to a gun. However, that is impossible to police effectively unless you get all control freak about it.

Unfortunately, it is U.S identity. I see it in you guys here at ATS every day. Have done for years. I know it is part of you. Evolve consciousness about it, which your own survival will teach you the hard way if you don't learn sooner.

Yes, i will leave you with this. What does this mean, U.S?:

"They who live by the sword, die by the sword".

Christ was stating an observed fact not a punishment. He wanted to free us from that by encouraging us to become conscious about ourselves.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
How many people do you think I have killed? I am going to give you a hint, its less than one.

Lightweight.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You are 1 of 6 billion people on the planet. I'm happy for you. Now let's deal with the other 599.999 billion that's left. Not all are as grounded as you. Not all make the proper decisions as you. If anyone thinks violent movies, violent videos games and violent television that marginalizes death and killing doesn't have an effect on a percentage of the population, then I'm just dumbstruck.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

I don't think that it's a cause-effect relationship, but I do think that it's what numbs a lot of people from being able to feel sympathy or empathy for the victims and their families.

People who, on the very day of the attack or hearing about it, start spouting off about this or that political stance are perfect examples of what I'm talking about. I would be willing to bet that many didn't even bat an eye in sympathy and went straight for 'never letting a crisis go to waste.'

And that goes for all sides of the political spectrum.

So, I think that what you're saying is having an effect on society, but not in the same way that you're proposing--I think that anyone capable of murder, and especially mass murder, was already going to do it anyhow, no matter how many times they've seen John Wick or Jack Reacher, because the utterly vast majority of people are fully capable of separating movie effects from real life. Those who can't, I would argue, were wired that way from the spark of life.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's( accept) glad to hear that you are so grounded and good natured. But movies do have an effect on society...saying they don't is a copout. I own probably as many if not more guns than shooter did, does that make me a bad person? Does it make me a "nutcase"? No, No it does not.