Las Vegas Strip shooter prescribed anti-anxiety drug in June

originally posted by: markovian
20 mg of diazepam Is hardly what id call a large dose for your average grown man it's about half the maximum and that's still half the dose most people actually take

Stop confusing this with other meds they are not even in the same ballpark as ssri type drugs

Diazepam is a benzopine a class of drugs used for sedation ... think quelude if u will this is a drug u can buy on the street and there's a reason why this is a street drug and ssri's are not

I just told you from first hand experience that it is different for some people. It varies according to the person. If I took fifty 10mg tablets over fifty days when I came off them I would be #ing insane for a while and do some really stupid things. My doctor knows this and severely limits my supply. Diazepam is not a poison except in HUGE doses. It is not about what your liver and kidneys can handle. It is about what your finely and delicately balanced chemical brain can cope with. If you mix Diazepam with alcohol you get double the trouble, too.

Don't brush this off so casually. We all know what street heroin users do to get by. They are all engaged in abuses of some description. The drug made them do that. See what levels crack abusers are brought to:



Drugs change your behaviour and thinking processes. They can make you do insane and out of character things because brain chemistry has been messed up. Amy proves that. So does Whitney. Prescription drugs mess us up just as much as illegal ones, if not more sometimes.

Don't pretend people can handle it because Elvis, Prince, Michael and me will prove you VERY wrong. So will possibly Stephen Paddock. Drugs will make a nice girl sell her body to get them. How much of a behaviour change is that? You have no idea. It's not something to boast about quantities. WTF.

Those are highly prescribed drugs. I could Google the numbers but this is common knowledge. Hell, I've been on diazapam for anxiety.

Sorry, not buying it.

First off.. 90% of the country I presume has been on depression/anxiety meds at some point.

I was on clonazepam when going through a rough time years ago... which is in the same family. If anything it's more like a recreational drug, like Xanax. It's an anxiety medication for stress, not an anti psychotic or deep deperssion drug.

The guy didn't do this due to some pills. No way.. it had more to do with whatever the reason he was stressed.

Also... it's a little late I'm then came here for them to come out with info on his mental state.

The reason there were no theories on him being a nut job is because they actually came out and said he had no known disorders or anything that anyone knew of.

Why be shocked on the lack of exposure? The very media that would normally be the source of that exposure relies on the revenue generated by the promotion of these products.

One only has to watch the number of drug commercials in the MSM or cable stations to see 'buying' the media with advertising not only promotes the product but ensure every medium is assured NOT to question these products.

I've seen number suggesting 80-90% of these mass shootings were drug induced.

Then there's the anti-gun crowd within the media....

a reply to: tribal

One more last morsal for you to chew on.

Remeber that pilot who suicided himself and a plane load of people recently?:

www.telegraph.co.uk... o-depression.html

(Sorry, can't get link to work.)

But details of the investigaton leaked to Spiegel and Bild newspaper indicate that he was being treated for depression for months ahead of the crash. As part of his psychotherapy, Lubitz kept a “happiness diary” between January 1 and March 8 this year. The co-pilot’s girlfriend has told investigators she had no idea he had mental health issues. But the pages of the “happiness diary” reveal that Lubitz’s mind was in turmoil. He was suffering from severe insomnia, and writes of getting as little as three and a half hours sleep a night. Between the pages are prescriptions for powerful antidepressants and tranquillisers. Lubitz’s descent into suicidal depression appears to have begun when he stared experiencing blurred vision in December 2014.

Interesting, don't ya think?

Remember kids, the very reason the doctors give us head meds is tooo:

CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOUR and mental state.

Lol!

well, the source seems legit at least...
but so much has been said about this guy than hasn't panned out, I would tend to be cautious.
if it is true, I wouldn't doubt meds, or lack of them, could have sent him into some type of mental chaos that would result in him doing this. although, I was one them for a very short time, and well, obviously they didn't affect him like they affected me since I couldn't even figure out how to use a lighter without help, I would have never have been able to assemble that kind of arsenal, set the guns up and all that...

but, I really think that when you start messing with people's brain chemistry, you are gonna find that people will react in different ways because more than likely not every person's brain is the same and well, sometimes people with normal healthy brains, with "normal brain chemistry" can be depressed or anxious, or whatever... when that is the case, what's needed is to change the environment, not the brain!!!

I don't get why people are blaming the drugs and ignoring the fact that a 64-year old man suddenly found the need to seek out medication. I think if we look into why he was prescribed them in the first place we might have our actual precipitating factor.

But this is ATS and so a large number of people will jump on the Scientology anti-psychiatry bandwagon. Completely ignoring the fact that he was prescribed these drugs for a reason.

I'm sorry but Valium is not going to cause someone to commit a freaking mass murder. It's a freaking sedative. I mean, why the hell do you think they use it in the first place for patients? If it leads to mass murder clearly hospitals across the planet aren't going to use it in the emergency room to quell a patient's rage who's losing their mind on the staff and having to be tied down for example. I don't see any of the isis guys on valium. If anything it would do the opposite via sedation. Valium is not an antidepressant ssri. *THOSE* cause behavioral changes. I should know because after my mother died when I was a teenager my Dr stupidly put me on them (instead of just realizing I was in grief and had to go through it. Grief is not depression and can't be treated) and I attempted suicide which was very out of character and I'm very lucky to be alive. After that shortly thereafter they began putting black box warnings on antidepressants of how they may cause suicidal tendencies in teenagers. Never again will I take antidepressants and those I know first hand can be dangerous. But Valium???? It's just a sedative ffs if anything it would help calm someone who is at risk of doing such horrific things. Not buying it. Valium isn't akin to dirty street drugs made with cleaners and god knows what else in a bathtub downtown. I think this is overdramatizing. It reminds me of how people say similar things about pot. I've known so many people on valium and such including family. Blaming Valium verges on ridiculous and is clearly grasping at straws as a psychological attempt on day two of the op's mind probably desperate to find something to be the cause of this horrific act and somewhere we can place blame because we still have no information to explain how the hell this happened and we're all traumatized needing to understand why and how this
happened. Whatever was wrong with this man, if anything he should've been more heavily sedated. Clearly. Maybe then this wouldn't have happened.

It would be great if we could all get more information from the authorities on motive etc for this massacre so that people aren't having to desperately try to come up with something to blame like if it was a sedatives fault. This paddock guy obviously should've been much more heavily sedated and had deep rooted problems if it really was only him who did this. Maybe he was just the sibling out of the bunch that was the crazy one who inherited issues. Everyone with 2 or more siblings probly knows what I'm talking about in regards to the one sibling who's "off" out of the bunch. Honestly I won't be surprised if we find out he was indeed radicalized by isis propaganda. In which case we'd have to then realize that no one is immune to radicalization.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I don't get why people are blaming the drugs and ignoring the fact that a 64-year old man suddenly found the need to seek out medication. I think if we look into why he was prescribed them in the first place we might have our actual precipitating factor.

But this is ATS and so a large number of people will jump on the Scientology anti-psychiatry bandwagon. Completely ignoring the fact that he was prescribed these drugs for a reason.

Exactly or why he was given diazepam of all things
U would just about have to ask for it bye name it's 50 years old and normal recommended for addiction withdrawal

I'n my thread "Vegas, sound of the gunfire seems off" Cavtrooper7 called it. I called bump stocks were going to be blamed based on the rate of gunfire. They are legal and there is a bill on removing restrictions on suppressors which was also brought up on the lack of muzzle flash.

a reply to: intrptr

Anxiety is your brains inability to keep fears in perspective and not become irrational.


The fear becomes so intense that it triggers fight or flight mechanisms. And those trigger adrenaline.

That adrenaline often becomes intense anger. Especially someone feels they cannot fly away and escape.

So many misconceptions. It's just easier to blame the boogeyman of mental illness, isn't it?

a reply to: tribal

I was about to post this -- but you beat me to it! So I will share the little research I did on Valium (Diazepam) instead.

According to John Hopkins Psychiatry Guide, the prescribed dose may range from 5 mg to 25 mg total per day, taken in three or four doses. Drugs.com breaks down typical dosages according to the condition, which includes seizures, alcohol withdrawal, anxiety and muscle spasms for geriatric patients. I believe Paddock's case would be anxiety:

Usual Geriatric Dose for Anxiety
ORAL:
-Initial dose: 2 to 2.5 mg orally once to 2 times a day
PARENTERAL:
-Initial dose: 2 to 5 mg IM or IV, repeated in 3 to 4 hours if necessary
Comments:
-Doses may be increased gradually as needed and tolerated, but should be limited to the smallest effective amount. -Maintenance doses should be determined by clinical need and patient tolerance.
Uses:
-Management of anxiety disorders and short-term relief of anxiety symptoms
-Symptomatic relief of acute agitation, tremor, impending/acute delirium tremens, and hallucinations in acute alcohol withdrawal
-Adjunctive treatment for the relief of skeletal muscle spasm due to reflex spasm to local pathology, spasticity caused by upper motor neuron disorders, athetosis, and stiff-man syndrome (e.g., inflammation of the muscles/joints secondary to trauma, cerebral palsy, paraplegia)

In the comments section at the end, it is recommended that --

"Patients should receive the lowest effective dose for the shortest amount of time.

There is also clinical research and evidence of violent adverse effects. According to the Citizens Commission on Human Rights:

The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration warns that benzodiazepines can bring about hostility, as well as physical dependence.

The CCHR cites the following studies:

Valium Drug Studies: There have been 11 studies done in six countries (Australia, Canada, France, Sweden, United Kingdom and United States) on Valium (or diazepam). These include the following (note that some studies cite more than one side effect, so the list below may not be equal to the total number of studies):
2 studies on Valium causing dementia
2 studies on Valium causing violence
2 studies on Valium causing aggression
1 study on Valium causing death or increased risk of death
1 study on Valium causing homicidal ideation 1 study on Valium causing risk of fractures
1 study on Valium causing impaired driving or sleep-driving
1 study on Valium causing suicide risk or attempts

I haven't tracked down the particular studies though.

Something else to consider is that being in Vegas, it's very likely he was drinking, and the adverse effects he would suffer if he was drinking alcohol while taking the medications --

Dangerous side effects can result when you mix Valium and alcohol. This is mainly because mixing alcohol and Valium can intensify the effects of both drugs.

Source

So it would seem that if he were having suicidal/homicidal ideations from the Valium, alcohol consumption would intensify those ideations.

a reply to: XxXAphroditeXxX

Why are you ignoring what I have told you about my experiences with DIAZEPAM?

First hand, I am a walking witness that DIAZEPAM can have a drastic effect on people. I already said that the doctor will not give it to me in anything other than small quantities four times a year, just for a few days because of my reaction to it. It is a medical fact on my record. It works wonders with me and that is why I use it. Yet there is a fine line.

Also, real coffee makes me go to sleep. The caffeine hit does not do the usual thing. I am not sure whether it is a cannabis/ caffeine joint reaction or my bipolar mind state that makes this so. Did you know that they give Ritalin to hyperactive kids to calm them down yet when we have gone through puberty it acts like an amphetamine? Chemicals are not some mechanical fix it for the human mind. There are far too many variables. It's not stable. How come MDMA can kill some people and some can take loads of it. How come, how come?

All you "experts" you are not being scientific. Ask an academic because they will tell you that chemicals can react in diverse ways. Some people can die by being exposed to hair dye. Black Henna Powder dye has killed people.

a reply to: XxXAphroditeXxX

Sure.

What if he took more than "prescribed" ?

What if he was drinking too ?

Geniuses are not always smart.

originally posted by: markovian

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I don't get why people are blaming the drugs and ignoring the fact that a 64-year old man suddenly found the need to seek out medication. I think if we look into why he was prescribed them in the first place we might have our actual precipitating factor.

But this is ATS and so a large number of people will jump on the Scientology anti-psychiatry bandwagon. Completely ignoring the fact that he was prescribed these drugs for a reason.

Exactly or why he was given diazepam of all things
U would just about have to ask for it bye name it's 50 years old and normal recommended for addiction withdrawal

The people and family members who were prescribed diazepam that I know about for 15 years on & off weren't prescribed it for addiction withdrawal in my experience. That is foreign to me. They were all given it for anxiety and to calm them down for example after losing a loved one so during grief and panic. Literally as a sedative so they didn't lose their minds in upset. We've lost a lot of family members so it helped multiple people get through their grief so they wouldn't you know, lose their minds from the upset during the worst of the times. That's just my experience though. And I've been given it at the dentist. Though it was worthless and didn't do anything.

a reply to: Revolution9

And who's to say he wasn't a heavy drinker, on top of these meds. That could result in a ticking time-bomb.

I mean, come on, in the one pic we have of this guy he is holding a shot of alcohol.

This dude was on the edge for whatever reason. His dad was a pyschopath...did the apple fall not far from the tree??

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: XxXAphroditeXxX

Sure.

What if he took more than "prescribed" ?

What if he was drinking too ?

Geniuses are not always smart.

Well, I know a guy....
That took Xanax, Valium and drank a quart of Grey Goose one night.
He got real stupid as the night wore on, but he didn't get violent or suicidal.
I just had to be that guy to throw in some useless anecdotal evidence.
There was room to wedge it in, and there's no cat threads to hate on right now.
Plus, the mods get angry when I troll cat threads.

originally posted by: six67seven
a reply to: Revolution9

And who's to say he wasn't a heavy drinker, on top of these meds. That could result in a ticking time-bomb.

I mean, come on, in the one pic we have of this guy he is holding a shot of alcohol.

This dude was on the edge for whatever reason. His dad was a pyschopath...did the apple fall not far from the tree??

Yes, but many of us might be if the right chain reaction happens.

The final tipping point might have been the adverse reaction to the meds mixed with all the other factors. Yeah, he was a ticking time bomb.

We are just human beings. Prick us, do we not bleed?

He is an extreme. We can't have an average without an extreme.

It's not tolerable to have thousands of lives ruined, hundreds maimed and heaps murdered because of a "flip out" though.

I am just so glad that I am gentle and don't like weapons. Call me a snowflake; I am glad to wear that badge with honour.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: XxXAphroditeXxX

Sure.

What if he took more than "prescribed" ?

What if he was drinking too ?

Geniuses are not always smart.

Surely he'd have passed out then and slept all night? I mean.. how do you stay awake drunk and on sedatives combined? Let alone continue to breathe in your sleep lol. Depresses breathing when you combine them. Not to mention how the hell do you have enough focus, stamina, energy, clarity and adrenaline to watch cameras, stay alert and do what he did? You'd need uppers in that scenario. Diazepam let alone combined with alcohol would make what he did impossible. His brain wouldn't even work fast enough to watch everything and stay as clear & alert as he would absolutely need to be to do what he did. As if he'd have even been able to focus his vision clearly enough to even shoot people. He'd have been lame and stupid with sedation at that point probably munching on some old dinner and then passing out. He sure as hell wouldn't have been able to carry out everything he did sedated like that. Let's be real here. This is one of the worst mass shootings in the US in modern history. 58 dead, 500+ injured. He sure as hell didn't do this drunk and on sedatives. However I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised if he was high on coc aine and upper type drugs. *That* I would believe.

a reply to: Boadicea

So it would seem that if he were having suicidal/homicidal ideations from the Valium, alcohol consumption would intensify those ideations.

That's not what that section is saying. The problem with mixing Valium and alcohol is that they are both depressants that work on the CNS. So by combining them the risk is that your CNS slows too much and you stop breathing or your heart stops beating.

Those are the additive effects they're talking about by combining the two.