America-273 mass shootings in 275 days of this year

a reply to: BlackSkinhead

No I believe the killings would increase. Good guys would have no guns and criminals would have all of the guns with no fear of Facing an armed citizen.

How about this:

1. Let's first figure out why people in certain areas have stopped respecting others so much that they would rather kill each other over disagreements than work things out peacefully.

Once we've done that, you might be surprised how low that number falls.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen

originally posted by: BlackSkinhead

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
So because a very small percentage of gun owners can't handle responsibility, the rest of the gun owners should give up our rights and property?

Are ALL Muslims to blame for each act perpetrated by ISIS?

Serious question.

America banned kindereggs.

Let that sink in mate ye.

Nice deflection. Doesn't answer my question.

To answer your question, yes, the amount of firearms per capita in the US is reflected in the death rate by firearm being higher.

Now, how one goes about solving that... does not have a clearcut answer.

Thank you for answering my question.

As for yours, obviously all Muslims arnt isis.

Do you think that making the punishment for illegal firearms harsher and making the ability to own one harder with criminal back ground checks would deter many people from using them?

I think America has a deeper problem than just taking their firearms away form them, but I think it's the best way to start

originally posted by: BlackSkinhead

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: BlackSkinhead

Because only the law abiding people will follow the laws.
The bad guys will always find what they need to do bad things.
To take away the law abiding citizens right to defend themselves against the bad guy with a gun will only ensure the bad guy wins.

That's such a generic comment it's becoming annoying. Look at other countries that have strict gun laws - they DO NOT have mass shootings. See the pattern here ?

No? They just find other ways to kill people. If you want people to stop killing people get rid of the one's who want to kill people, until you can do that, I prefer to be able to defend myself.

Thank you for answering my question.

As for yours, obviously all Muslims aren't isis.

So why is it that the kneejerk reaction is to punish all gun owners as if they committed the same crime as the shooter?

Do you think that making the punishment for illegal firearms harsher and making the ability to own one harder with criminal back ground checks would deter many people from using them?

Enforce the laws on the books. The NICS background checks in place are fine. It's not as easy to get guns legally as everyone makes it out to be.

No additional laws are needed, enforce the ones on the books already.

Name a law that would've prevented this tragedy.

I think America has a deeper problem than just taking their firearms away form them, but I think it's the best way to start

Any attempt to take away firearms would result in a 2nd American Revolution.

There aren't enough police and combat military total to accomplish that, not counting defectors. It won't happen.

Guns are here to stay.

originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns here, written in the constitution. A gun is a tool that you can use for good or evil. unfortunately an infinitely small minority of legal gun owners use their tools to kill other people.

No offence but # your constitution.

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: BlackSkinhead

Because only the law abiding people will follow the laws.
The bad guys will always find what they need to do bad things.
To take away the law abiding citizens right to defend themselves against the bad guy with a gun will only ensure the bad guy wins.

How do you think the other countries survive? Open your eyes, the NRA has force-fed you this BS and you follow it. Guns aren't making you safer. Look around you.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns here, written in the constitution. A gun is a tool that you can use for good or evil. unfortunately an infinitely small minority of legal gun owners use their tools to kill other people.

No offence but f*ck your constitution.

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

You lost your pathetic argument right there! Maybe Americans think f*ck the opinion of someone who isn't even a citizen here?

a reply to: seeker1963

Oh no, i'm so upset.

At least my children don't have to worry about being shot at school everyday.
Keep living in denial.

Your "freedom" is hiding behind what your ancestors told you to do.

""The government of today has no right to tell us how to live our lives. Because the government of 200 years ago already did".

Cowardly sheep.

a reply to: SudoNim

And what country do you call home?

oNo offence but f*ck your constitution.

Well alrighty then. I don't think I can get close enough without getting arrested though...

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

Insults, nice.

I question things all the time. I wasn't told anything, some very smart gentlemen enumerated rights in a document which was designed to protect me against my government.

Rights exist in spite of the Constitution, not because of.

Oh, and I've owned guns for 13 years now. Some have been loaded the entire time. Out of thousands, possibly tens of thousands of rounds fired, nothing has ever been hurt except for paper, steel, and the occasional dangerous animal.

Why should I give up my property which is used for enjoyment, stress relief, and self-defense again?

originally posted by: cynicalheathen

oNo offence but f*ck your constitution.

Well alrighty then. I don't think I can get close enough without getting arrested though...

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

Why should I give up my property which is used for enjoyment, stress relief, and self-defense again?

Because its not used for self-defence is it, its because you want to play army man.

Everyone thinks they are responsible until... oops dead kid. And then you all sigh and go, "not me i'm responsible" and oops another one makes a mistake.

Like the OP stated, Kinder Eggs were banned in America because they feared your dumb-ass kids would swallow the toy, yet they seem happy to keep them around guns.

You have more chance of injuring your own family than ever preventing a crime by having a gun in your home. Fact. You are putting your residents lives at risks.

This whole "never me" denial BS is the problem.

a reply to: BlackSkinhead

Yes I asked you is it due to the amount of guns you have and you didn't answer it. Yes or no.

I don't want this thread turning into the same generic answers.

I'm asking a simple question that requires a simple answer.

I believe no. We have had semi automatic/automatic weapons since the early 1900's. I believe this is a culture/human nature issue. Not guns.

Where there is a will there is a way. If someone really wanted to they could make a bomb with over the counter chemicals or drive a truck into a crowd of people. Taking away guns is only going to change the weapon they use to inflict damage on others. And if thats the case I would rather have my gun and not need it than to need it and not have it.

originally posted by: BlackSkinhead
I dont want the usual "well a man in a van can also kill people" because yes as true as that is, it doesn't embody you with the same illusion of power that a hand held deadly weapon can give somebody.

I think you answered a large portion of your question right there. American gun culture is a damaging thing. Too much division and the hyper-masculinity related to firearms make gun ownership a phallic extension to many, and a rite of manhood to even more. The rest of America just views guns as guns and either owns/accepts them or don't. But there are enough of the Rambo complex types who create the atmosphere you are talking about.

I think changing that culture would do just as much good as magically waving away actual guns.

originally posted by: BlackSkinhead
With America having the highest density of fire arms per capita in the world, do you Americans think that, thay figure has a relation to you also having the highest death by firearm rate in the developed world?

Of course. But it comes with the territory. Nations with strict gun laws (or outright bans) literally have less guns within their borders because they've been that way for a long time. If you were to outlaw guns in the US, the guns won't vanish and confiscations would almost entirely consist of law-abiding citizens and not people who possess unregistered firearms.

So that whole cliche of "only outlaws would have guns", while it is tired and obnoxious, is actually kind of true. We can't just wave a wand and make all the guns disappear.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns here, written in the constitution. A gun is a tool that you can use for good or evil. unfortunately an infinitely small minority of legal gun owners use their tools to kill other people.

No offence but f*ck your constitution.

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

No offense, but f*ck your opinion. Guns are already here and there is no way to take them away from the criminals by passing laws or outlawing them now. I would've been fine if they were never legal, but they are and every bad person in America has them...period. I'm not about to give up mine, so I'm at a disadvantage. If you don't like that we are an armed nation, you are welcome to see yourself out the door, continue whining about it, or never visit our great country. Your choice!

Because its not used for self-defence is it, its because you want to play army man.

If I wanted to play Army man, I would've joined the Army. I only own 2 AR-pattern rifles. They are my least shot guns.

I have firearms for target shooting, varmint shooting, and self-defense.

Everyone thinks they are responsible until... oops dead kid. And then you all sigh and go, "not me i'm responsible" and oops another one makes a mistake.

There are no children in my household. When guests come over, all guns are locked up in the safe. The safe is bolted down, kept locked, and camouflaged. When guns are carried off my property, they are not left in cars, and are in proper holsters.

How much more responsible should I be?

Like the OP stated, Kinder Eggs were banned in America because they feared your dumb-ass kids would swallow the toy, yet they seem happy to keep them around guns.

More insults. As stated above, I don't allow children around guns, so your assumption is invalid.

I was raised around guns from about 10 years old. I don't have any extra holes, nor have I put extra holes in anyone else or anything besides a target.

You have more chance of injuring your own family than ever preventing a crime by having a gun in your home. Fact. You are putting your residents lives at risks.

My household members are all trained in gun handling and rules, and safety is strictly observed.

This whole "never me" denial BS is the problem.

I won't say "never me", but I will say that I am as responsible a gun owner as you will ever see.

So again I ask, why should my rights be abridged, and my property forfeited/seized due to actions of others beyond my control?

Am I guilty of committing a crime?

Am I to be denied my due process?

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns here, written in the constitution. A gun is a tool that you can use for good or evil. unfortunately an infinitely small minority of legal gun owners use their tools to kill other people.

No offence but f*ck your constitution.

Are Americans so braindead that they refuse to question what they've been told years ago and blindly follow it.

No offense, but f*ck your opinion. Guns are already here and there is no way to take them away from the criminals by passing laws or outlawing them now. I would've been fine if they were never legal, but they are and every bad person in America has them...period. I'm not about to give up mine, so I'm at a disadvantage. If you don't like that we are an armed nation, you are welcome to see yourself out the door, continue whining about it, or never visit our great country. Your choice!

I don't really give a sh1t, its just sad to see everyone play dumb after every mass shooting.
Then you shrug and go, oh well... I can't be bothered to change now.

Also what fantasy are people in where they think owning a gun is protecting them? Facts have proven that even in your ego-boosting-gun ridden culture that owning a gun in the home is actually putting your family at even more risk.

So it has nothing about disadvantage, it means you care more about owning a gun than the wellbeing of your family.

a reply to: BlackSkinhead

The amount of violence in the US is multifactorial with the amount of gun ownership being one such factor. Of all the factors, it is the only one with constitutional protection. In the US from the Boston Tea Party, to Jesse James, to Bonnie and Clyde, to rap music, we have always celebrated the Rebel, the law breaker, the person ready to take justice into his own hands. It is a deep-set cultural ethos. We celebrate war, we celebrate the death penalty, we celebrate abortion, we are a culture of violence. Though not a majority belief, there is also an innate distrust of authority and government.

For those of us who are against violence we are given the right to defend ourselves using firearms. I decry the violence where ever and when ever it occurs. The absolute truth is that the more freedoms a society is afforded, the messier the society will be. In my youth I was for stringent gun control. Then I watched the post Rodney King verdict riots in LA. An entire strip mall was being looted and burned. The one shop in the area that was untouched was the one where the shop owners were out front with their firearms. (They were Korean I believe). If they were not allowed to carry firearms, they would have lost everything.

In my adulthood I am a criminal defense attorney. I see on a daily basis how gun control laws and mandatory sentences are disproportionately applied to low income areas, and most of these areas are people of color. I've had numerous clients who only carried weapons because they'd been attacked at an earlier time and neither the police nor anyone else was there to protect them. They'd rather risk going to jail for 18 months than to be pushing up daisies.

With liberal gun rights there is simply no way to eliminate gun violence. However, I think better solutions would be first to legalize drugs and stop this horrendous war on drugs which is simply a boondoggle for the already wealthy. Second, I would take much of the money spent on the war on drugs and on incarcerating people and I would apply it to real mental health treatment. Not just giving people prescriptions, but real treatment.

As for your statements about our supposed the institutional racism, the deep political divide, hate for homosexuals and dangerous religious beliefs, I think your a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. I could go on for pages addressing each of these issues but I will state simply that if your information about these issues isn't obtained first hand then it is likely garbage. The media in both the US and UK love to over-emphasize these issues because it continues to keep us divided.

a reply to: BlackSkinhead


It has already been proven many times over the more guns = less violent crime. Lets ask Venezuela how things are going with their government having all the guns and the citizens relying on them for protection and aid.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Every single time a population or entity is disarmed they are trampled on by those that are armed.