Lifting the Veil - An Invitation

a reply to: kennyb72

But you are talking about what others have said. Nothing objective por personal about that. They could have gotten it wrong.

a reply to: daskakik

I agree. Casual subjective knowledge can be conclusive, but it doesn't mean one isn't coming to the wrong conclusion.

a reply to: kennyb72

Yes the veil is not literal, I meant the "veil of forgetfulness" Thanks for explaining, it all is very fascinating yet all very familiar at the same time. Boy what a journey we are on.

a reply to: sputniksteve

All any of us can go by, is that which we can synthesise from our collected knowledge, and our own scientific approach.

Common sense can make many things 'a priori' when our understanding forms a comprehensive interweaved picture.

I have studied Pythagorean Hylozoics for some while now, as it is presented in Henry T Laurency's voluminous works The Philosophers Stone, Knowledge of Life, The Way of Man.

The Pythagorean mental system of Hylozoics is either an amazingly effective method of brain washing 'OR' it is a pathway to acquiring causal knowledge within the enquirers mind.

With a very profound philosophical world view and an astute scientific mind, Laurency describes The Pythagorean system as the most rational of all hypothesis, that can explain in detail without contradiction, the meaning and purpose of life, through the eyes of a trained scientist.

He is fully cognisant of the fact that empirical evidence can never be presented, but as an intellectual exercise, the knowledge is deeply satisfying.

The understanding has changed me, in a good way and has become my truth.

7.13 The Law of Development and Self-Realization

1.The law of self-realization is in fact a law concomitant to the law of development. It is true that man must do his due and as though no help were to be found. But if he does so, his purposiveness will be rewarded. The forces of the law of development will then automatically add to his own contribution, strengthening it. Without this addition his own forces would not suffice.

2.But note this: the law of development is the manifestation of a force of unity. Whether energy is added to man depends on his attitude to unity. Anyone who wants to develop for any other motive than to serve life, anyone who wants to develop for himself, will have to do without this help. However, to the same extent that man lives for others his own development is promoted so that he will be able to make an ever more efficient contribution.

ITruthSeeker

Yes the veil is not literal, I meant the "veil of forgetfulness" Thanks for explaining, it all is very fascinating yet all very familiar at the same time. Boy what a journey we are on.

I completely share your excitement

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
Yes the veil is not literal, I meant the "veil of forgetfulness"

That is how I have heard it described.

I've never heard a good reason for not remembering past lives.

"Hey, you messed up this life and have to fix it in the next"

"Yeah, you are right, beam me down...zap...what was it that I came to do?" Sounds like a messed up system.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
Yes the veil is not literal, I meant the "veil of forgetfulness"

That is how I have heard it described.

I've never heard a good reason for not remembering past lives.

"Hey, you messed up this life and have to fix it in the next"

"Yeah, you are right, beam me down...zap...what was it that I came to do?" Sounds like a messed up system.

Lol it does seem tricky and unfair at first. But if you remembered, nobody would ever fail the 2nd time around, and what would you have learned overall? Nothing.

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

To those who end up in one of these Astral planes, does the veil follow them there?

Veil is a useful word, as in metaphor. There is no veil, just a lack of conscious awareness. To lift the veil is to become objectively aware of our extended reality.

A Indian guru or anyone who can reach that place during meditation, elevates their consciousness into Maya and confirms all of his beliefs, it all plays out as they had imagined. (all illusion) No veil, just expanded awareness.

In the case of Maya we are objectively aware but mostly, incorrectly interpreting what we see.

Those who understand esoteric knowledge know, that we live in three dimensions simultaneously, Pythagorus uses the terms, Physical, Emotional, (Mental and Causal). It is a very useful analogy because our conscious focus is in one dimension or another shifting between each dimension as our mind wanders.

When we focus on our physical body, which we have to, to get through our day. (food, drink, bodily functions), we are firmly in the physical world.

If we become overwhelmed emotionally, we are subjectively in Maya the emotional plane. We have no objective awareness to know where our mind is, but it certainly isn't in the physical world. It used to be a thing to slap someones face to bring them out of an emotional state where consciousness is not present in the physical world.

When we are deep in thought we are not in the physical dimension, our consciousness is only present on the Mental plane and we can miss physical cues because we are deep in thought.

We permanently reside alternatively in these three states. As we evolve, we begin to access a subjective awareness on the causal plane, which belongs to the higher reaches of the Mental world and it is where all inspiration and creativity emanates.

The veil exists for each of us until we expand our reality through evolution.

When we die, we don't suddenly become aware of everything. We become objectively aware of the place we are familiar with, our sometimes chaotic emotional world.

While in Maya, we are still only objectively aware of Maya and the Physical world. The Mental world is still behind the veil. And on it goes. When we dissolve our emotional envelope,(our second death) We become objectively aware of the Mental plane, the Emotional plane and the Physical plane.

Towards the latter stages of our Earthly cyclic reincarnation, we become more aware of the Causal plane and eventually pass through to discover our true selves. This is the first time that we, as individual humans have an opportunity to co-create the conditions of our next life. it is here that we are in full communion with Augoeides, our very own personal divine being.

Reading a book will not lift the veil, it is something that happens over an immense period of time, most of us will get glimpses while we are alive, but will remain enigmatic until we evolve to see everything clearly and objectively.

I sense there are some members who are fearful of what comes next, If you can understand that nothing can exist for long without the ultimate power of love and compassion, you would come to know, that we are deeply loved as a parent would love a child and that the greatest joy in all of creation, is to be of service to all creatures during the arduous period of existence in the physical world.

Although we pass through the human kingdom together, there is disparity between soul ages, those who are sensitive to the other worlds are reaching a point in there evolution where they start to glimpse objectively into Maya.

This is a good and most interesting post. Commenting to mark it for further study..

Veil is a metaphor.

That such an idea evokes a certain mirth suggests it's fundamental truth.

On veiling...

And among the wondrous things is a veiled gazelle: a Divine Subtlety, veiled by a state of the Self, Referring to the States of those who know. Unable To explain their perceptions to others, they can only indicate them to whoever has started to feel something similar. . . ." --Muhiyuddin Ibn El-Arabi, The Interpreter of Desires The title, A Veiled Gazelle, is taken from this beautiful poem by 12th-century mystic, Ibn Arabi. The "gazelles" are extraordinary experiences and perceptions latent in ordinary man. "Veiling" refers to the action of the subjective or "commanding" self, which partly through indoctrination and partly through base aspirations prevents higher vision...

Source

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

See, that isn't a good reason, it sounds more like an excuse.

Why wouldn't you learn anything. What happened to things like "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"?

He or she who can lift the veil is the teacher, the master.

It’s not easy…indeed

Lifting the veil, though, is the whole ball game.


As noted above referring to the poem, analogizing a Gazelle to the elusive thing we seek---Truth


Less often they say it can come in a flash…though most of us it comes slowly through cultivation
Then we perceive that elusive gazelle now and then until it becomes clearer and clearer over time.


Knowledge or faith has three levels

Lore of Certainty---Lore, traditions, scriptures, ancient doctrines: The veil begins to be known


Eye of Certainty—Intuition, revelations, intimations of truth: The veil begins to lift slowly


Truth of certainty—See God, experience reality and merge with truth: The veil is lifted—reality is seen for what it is.

originally posted by: Willtell
Lifting the veil, though, is the whole ball game.

What if it isn't what you describe below?

Knowledge or faith has three levels

Lore of Certainty---Lore, traditions, scriptures, ancient doctrines: The veil begins to be known


Eye of Certainty—Intuition, revelations, intimations of truth: The veil begins to lift slowly


Truth of certainty—See God, experience reality and merge with truth: The veil is lifted—reality is seen for what it is.

Any levels in-between?

What if you get stuck in the second and your intuitions are based on the "lore of Certainty"?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Willtell
Lifting the veil, though, is the whole ball game.

What if it isn't what you describe below?

Knowledge or faith has three levels

Lore of Certainty---Lore, traditions, scriptures, ancient doctrines: The veil begins to be known


Eye of Certainty—Intuition, revelations, intimations of truth: The veil begins to lift slowly


Truth of certainty—See God, experience reality and merge with truth: The veil is lifted—reality is seen for what it is.

Any levels in-between?

What if you get stuck in the second and your intuitions are based on the "lore of Certainty"?

Good question.

Of course there are degrees within these general levels

Most people get stuck in the lore of certainty---ordinary faith.

Many reach the Eye and have real occult experiences; here is where a good teacher can help.

Those who reach the Truth of Certainty don’t need a teacher

Lore of certainty is the general theory


The ignorant take the lore as truth and they are the miscreants like ISIS, religious cults, lying preachers and those that distort the path.



The Eye of certainty is when your intuitive faculties are awakening.

People can always get stuck.

Try to find a real teacher

a reply to: Willtell

I got that but if you stuck there (eye of certainty) and all you have is stuff that "resonates" from the lore of certainty then you are no better off than when you began.

And to avoid misunderstandings I'm not posing questions because I need answers. They are questions that should make people think about the logic of what was said.

The problem I have, if it can be called that, is that I have experienced OOBEs for over 30 years and seen a lot of things and even though I have seen beings of light and felt liquid love pouring over me, I'm not sure that is the goal.

At one time I did but the more experiences I had the less important that seemed to be.

This may not be the place to say this but I will anyway.

So many have written what they believe to be the truth on a universal level. How do you know? Why is your truth greater than another's perceived truth. All I know is what I experience and it is my interpretation of this truth, but only a truth for me, to the extent I have experienced.

What I know of me is I missed a my fork in the road in 1992 more or less. After I started meditating and keeping a dream journal , much changed. Fortunately I can look back on the dream journal which was prophetic in many ways.

I am not checking the dates but late 1990' to early 2000 I had a dream. I was taking the first step on a staircase. Then I was at the next to the last step before a platform. Suddenly I am on the platform and looking down at a bunch of men around a table playing cards. Then I fell to the bottom floor. I went around to the first step of the stair case and knew the first step was as hard as the last.

I met a man, fell in love. It didn't work mostly because of his history and fear. After we decided to get together , i was getting out of my car and I fell. I immediately knew I had fallen in love and/or fallen off my path. It was both.

I can't count how many of these coincidences and knowings have happened but there are many. You know what I do know when something gives me the slightest unease....I play cards.

Had many dreams of going back to school, not going to the right class or going late. Many of these. The last was the same but at the end i asked myself why I am here since I have already been here. I was a college class. Just as i was about to awake the answer came. You are studying for your masters. Well, if that is so, I have failed.

To many dreams and life coincidences not to mention pur precognition in dreams and just knowling.

Don't believe the is just the 2nd time around, probably many and there is a flaw that I haven't corrected. Think it is discipline and listening to others...maybe taking the easy way and not embracing the fear.

Presence of entities, Hearing voices..."my name, stay tune'. I sat straight up and thought of the bible verse about a voice with the sound of a thousand rushing waters. The voice sounded like all the voices in the universe speaking in perfect unison. Wish i could go back there.

Felt many things going on and off my bed. Something walking across my bed lots of times. Only scared once but not panicked when a very heavy air presence was over the top half of my body. Commanded it to go away. Don't know if it did.

All this to say. In the end does it really matter if we know the complete truth if we are on the right path? I don't know, you tell me.

Apologise this is so long...just needed to get it out....frustration I guess.

a reply to: liveandlearn

Was that aimed at anyone in particular?

Don't believe the is just the 2nd time around, probably many and there is a flaw that I haven't corrected.

This caught my eye because at the very start you said "So many have written what they believe to be the truth on a universal level. How do you know?" but here you just went along with what somebody else has said is the reason why people reincarnate.

I guess it is easy to accept that you will repeat the grade until you pass all the tests but what if that isn't how things are set up?

a reply to: daskakik

If you are the one who said the 2nd time, it was not aimed at you and not anyone in particular. It is my frustration at everyone speaking their truth as a universal truth and HOW do they know. All I know is that I know nothing except what happens to me and that is still subjective.

a reply to: daskakik


There is what is called states or stages one goes through. Could be signs of progress. They say it isn’t good to be bogged down in states because the goal is full enlightenment or full development. Though, again, such states are said to be signs of progress….Flashes of light, glimpses of the gazelle.

According to the lore, our problem is some inner corruption of our faculties of perception.

This path is about repairing that. Removing the veils.

originally posted by: liveandlearn
All I know is that I know nothing except what happens to me and that is still subjective.

Exactly and if that doesn't match with what some guru says then you supposedly still have the veil on. A very circular argument.