Negotiate with North Korea? A Russian Tried.

Hello, ATS,

We are all aware of North Korea, we are aware how much we get each other fired up with our different ideas and the leadership's ideas on how to deal with North Korea, and more pointedly their leader.

I see a lot of people toss around the comment of diplomacy and negotiations.

I see comments about the people too, and how they need to be saved and will adjust once they are.

I ran across this article, it talks about such things. Negotiations and the way the people in the country of secrecy think and work.

The key mistake is to read them as a version of us. We walked in the same columns, carrying the same portraits of leaders, but we'd go home and tell jokes about these leaders. This is not about North Korea. In Orwell's "1984," the characters are always trying to escape Big Brother's gaze to get some privacy. In North Korea, it's the other way round. People are born with the dream of finding themselves in Big Brother's line of sight, of being noticed.

I don't believe the majority would integrate well with the modern world, and society. I think it would be a bigger humanitarian challenge than any previously undertaken by the world. It would take the entire world, but how can we do that if we're all so at odds over baser things constantly.

North Korea is a cult, I very much agree with that sentiment, a scary deranged cult. What little we hear about the suicide rates amongst the defectors, but it's climbing. Due to socio-economic differences, lack of people to relate to, and many other issues. You can read about that Here . You can read about one former North Korean woman's plight of escaping and living in the South Here. The abuse and torture she endured would break a lot of people.

Do give this article a read, it's where the above-quoted text is from, and is the viewpoint of Russian documentary director Vitaly Mansky.
Here

I do hope this gives everyone a better perspective of the mystery we call North Korea, and their barbaric cult.

a reply to: Cygnis

I can't help but think you are advocating for wiping these people out.

I can't get behind that agenda.

As long as we remove the access to nuclear weapons we don't need to harm the civilians even if they are crazy. The goal should be removing the threat not the humans.

I have read several articles over the years regarding the integration challenges faced by NK refugees in South Korea. Most do quite well after the initial culture shock. Although unfortunately it can be too much for some, who do indeed commit suicide. Others, even after some time, express their desire to return to NK either over guilt and concern for relatives left behind or being unable to integrate with the South Korean society.

In a post Kim regime world (hopefully) a stable government can work to build the country and take care of it's citizens. The borders can open and the international community can provide some aid.

You do realise that they'd say the same thing about us.... And they wouldn't be wrong.

Ever seen the North Korean drunken dad who beats his kids? Or the dysfunctional North Korean teen gangs terrorizing their own generation? Me neither!

We are world apart from these people's for a REASON. We should stop this stupid notion that our way of life is universal....

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Cygnis

I can't help but think you are advocating for wiping these people out.

I can't get behind that agenda.

As long as we remove the access to nuclear weapons we don't need to harm the civilians even if they are crazy. The goal should be removing the threat not the humans.

Undecided, actually Metallicus. See, If we wipe out their leadership we run the risk of a huge humanitarian crisis of 24-25 million people with no one to think for them, as that is what is going on now.

How do you remove the possibility of them getting their hands on something like it in the future? How do you take away what they have now, without use of force and escalation?

How do you prevent another "rogue" country from supplying them with more materials or outright munitions?

It either becomes a prison country where everything is strictly monitored, or we are taking out a lot more countries than just North Korea.

This situation is untenable in the long run, but a solution will be reached. I just hope its one that will make sense.

/sadistic sick twisted thought:

We could always turn North Korea into a giant glass parking-lot, and sell it to the Chinese for in exchange for the debt we owe them..

originally posted by: Sagacity
I have read several articles over the years regarding the integration challenges faced by NK refugees in South Korea. Most do quite well after the initial culture shock. Although unfortunately it can be too much for some, who do indeed commit suicide. Others, even after some time, express their desire to return to NK either over guilt and concern for relatives left behind or being unable to integrate with the South Korean society.

In a post Kim regime world (hopefully) a stable government can work to build the country and take care of it's citizens. The borders can open and the international community can provide some aid.

Indeed, tho the de-programming will take a few generations once the Kim regime is done.

The immediate issue is how does the regime end, and what will be the aftermath.

originally posted by: Joneselius
You do realise that they'd say the same thing about us.... And they wouldn't be wrong.

Ever seen the North Korean drunken dad who beats his kids? Or the dysfunctional North Korean teen gangs terrorizing their own generation? Me neither!

We are world apart from these people's for a REASON. We should stop this stupid notion that our way of life is universal....

Indeed, because everyone wants to live in the most brutal form of another -ism.

Doesn't it sound fun to live in a Stalin-ist communist utopia under a god-king where you and your family are on the brink of starvation while the leaders spend more money for another setup for a big bomb and eat the better food.

The god-king demands it, and your sacrifice is appreciated to keep us safe against the great satan!

In retrospect, neither are great, but greed can be to blame in your example and mine.

a reply to: Cygnis

It will definitely take time.

How will the regime end? Good question. Unless Kim falls ill and dies of natural causes, force would be the only option. He's not going anywhere on his own, nor will NK ever give up nuclear ambitions and ICBM technology of their own free will. I think most realize that. So either the U.S. and any other international parties who are concerned about it will decide to live with it as is, or they won't. They won't negotiate Kim out of those programs. So again, they either accept it or choose to use force to remove Kim and his leadership and stop or delay the programs.

The question immediately after any action would be where one asks who takes the reins of the country? It won't be Kim's kids, they're too young. The other higher ranking people in the regime rise and fall probably weekly depending on Kim's mood. I'm sure intelligence agencies everywhere are constantly re-evaluating who would take control of the country if Kim weren't in control any more. We tend to do well with the fighting part. We have some challenges and a bit to learn about what happens after the shooting stops.

A failed nation state with nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons is not a good thing. Any enterprising general can sell some of that arsenal to others, fill his bank account, and take a one way ticket to a life of luxury in another country. There would be a large line of buyers for those goods. Most of those buyers would be quite happy to utilize their purchases on a western country, particularly the U.S. We're quite popular nowadays.

a reply to: Cygnis
I think if we can get the first wave of Atlas robots ready for combat the North Korean people would feel better about having them patrol their communities than foreign soldiers. The beautiful thing is its easier to have a computer programmed to produce audio in the domestic tongue than to try and train foreign soldiers in the language.

But honestly, I think your selling the Nortenos a bit short. They aren't quite like Scientologists, I think most or at least many of them, especially the younger folks are pretty with it in regards to what their place in the world is and that their leader is a human. They are just terrified and adapted into compliance over a few generations now. The end of the regime would be a Godsend for most of them.

a reply to: Cygnis

I guess it's better to live in the country where the people are so misinformed that they would surrender their sovereignty for a chilli dog?

The problem with societies isn't which one's better, none of them work. Not one, ever, in the history of mankind. I don't think we're supposed to live they way we do at all, but that's a different subject....