Steelers Player Didn't Mean to Stand Alone During Anthem

originally posted by: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: darkbake

Its telling though, is it not?

Very. The same people who are silent on black masked communists silencing free speech with violence and intimidation, while lecturing us all on free speech, are the same people who have now pressured this veteran in to recanting HIS protest.

The left continue to be enormous hypocrites! Yes, VERY telling.

Indeed. The same people also who have little to say when the NFL prohibits and fines every other act of 'free speech' like honouring dead cops shot in Dallas or the victims of 911. They don't seem to be up in arms about free speech when those expressions are censored.

Once again this is a case of two sides arguing for their message and 'free speech' arguments (which don;t apply anyway) are used to cover their real motives. Bitterness still lingering from Nov 8th 2016.

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

They're kneeling for injustice, killing innocent people is an injustice.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
We don't like people who were captured. Being captured is un-American.

Welllllll, not entirely true. I like the people in my basement hostage dungeon.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Speaking of which, when can I leave? It's dark and dirty down here. Plus, you don't have a bathroom so we've had to resort to making a makeshift one in the corner, you really should clean that up.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ShadowLink

You might get all sorts of answers back from veterans, depending on their mindset.

However, the issue here is that I have been hearing people crow and bark and whine about the veterans, and how they must feel when someone fails to respect the flag, and yet here is a veteran who would, but for a total miscommunication, have stayed in the tunnel, rather than walk out.

It is telling, because if there is one veteran who would support such protest as that, then there are more than one, because there is nothing new under the sun. And as it happens, I happen to know for a certainty that there is more than one, more than a few, but a hefty number of veterans, who would support this sort of protest, because they threw away their medals, they cast down their superiors, and raised the middle finger like a battle flag, in the direction of the Capitol, in protest.

Their opinions are not invalid. Their stances are not irrelevant, and nor is this gentleman's stance. Yet to hear some people tell of it, you would think that all military personnel current or former, are either enraged or depressed about the matter. More false narratives, more lies, from the "Straight talkers".

Did you see his press conference? He sounded like a whipped dog begging not to get cut from the team.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DrStevenBrule

They're kneeling for injustice, killing innocent people is injustice.

You mean innocent people like Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin or Freddy Gray?

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

Or the people in Afghanistan an Iraq?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DrStevenBrule

Or the people in Afghanistan an Iraq?

That aren't protesting that by any stretch of the imagination.

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

It's a damn shame too, more people should. But support the military, just ignore all the collateral damage they cause.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: darkbake

Its telling though, is it not?

Yes...his support and jersey sales have skyrocketed as a direct reflection of what the American people think of this protest, no matter if his act was intentional.

An Army Ranger no less, who has no problem whatsoever with his team protesting in the manner which they deem most fit.

If he has not got a problem with his team, then none of the try hard, wannabe die hards out there who have wept and screeched and given the middle finger to the NFL on this matter, have a damned leg to stand on.

Every American who wants to despise the protest has a leg to stand on--and I work with a former Army Ranger who thinks that these protests are disrespectful. This flaccid attempt at the appeal-to-authority logical fallacy will hopefully not be lost on anyone.

ETA: You know, as a non-American, you sure are pretty emotionally charged over these protests and people's reactions to them.

Why? In the grand scheme of life, this is a massive non-issue, yet you're on nearly every thread about it.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DrStevenBrule

It's a damn shame too, more people should. But support the military, just ignore all the collateral damage they cause.

No doubt. I fully agree with you here.

But that is not what these players are protesting.

originally posted by: xuenchen
It looks to me like Alejandro Villanueva was threatened right into this "statement".

That's what I think.

You aren't alone in that thought. If it was a mistake or misunderstanding, why didn't he turn around and go back inside when he realized he was walking out alone?

Why stay on the field and cover his heart for the anthem if he was in agreement with his team?

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

So now we have protesters protesting other protesters protesting which does a lot of good. I think we have more important things to worry about than people kneeling. But hey, that's what we get from Trump and the media, overblowing insignificant things.

This whole farce just keeps getting more hilarious. An accidental hero. It's like they say: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.

a reply to: szino9

I'd absolutely defend his right not to kneel, even if he was the only one on a team of kneelers. Someone who does that should never feel embarrassed, but Villanueva did because a misunderstanding made people praise him for something that he doesn't actually believe in. I can sympathize, I hate it when that happens.

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

a reply to: Cutepants

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

That's actually a great saying, I've never heard it before. Did you make that up on the spot? Honest question.

But yeah, I see people are already taking back all the praise they gave the guy. Apparently pandering to a certain political party or group is more important than being honest. I find it hard to believe Trump cares that much about the flag, he wouldn't be shipping thousands of MAGA hats in from China if he cared that much about America. Just my opinion of course.

originally posted by: Cutepants
This whole farce just keeps getting more hilarious. An accidental hero. It's like they say: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.

a reply to: szino9

I'd absolutely defend his right not to kneel, even if he was the only one on a team of kneelers. Someone who does that should never feel embarrassed, but Villanueva did because a misunderstanding made people praise him for something that he doesn't actually believe in. I can sympathize, I hate it when that happens.

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

I do hope thats what happened. A misunderstanding, and because of that misunderstanding he stood by himself with his hand on his heart through the National Anthem. And later he was not called into the office where the written statement waited for him about what to say to the media or he will suffer the consequences regarding his role in the team.

Because if he was called into that office, then all these rights to protest working in only one way in Pittsburgh...

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Nope, I wish I came up with it, but apparently it's by a French author name André Gide. Not sure where I had heard it from, never read any of his books. It's the kind of saying that I'd question if I heard it from someone else, because honestly being loved is usually a hell of a lot better than being hated. But it might be true in the end, I think it gives you peace to be true to yourself. I wish I had the strength to do that every day, or even most days. (Just to be clear btw, I'm not saying this was super hard for Villanueva, he will have both some hate and some love either way. But you got my point.)

I don't think Trump cares either, but I can't even make myself care enough to call him out on it. It's simply another good topic for him to tweet about.

a reply to: szino9

Yeah, I think that's possible too. I wish I knew what he was really thinking in his head, I'm actually kind of curious. Seems like he would have known in advance what his coach and teammates wanted, so I tend to be believe in his honesty, but who knows.

Anyway, it's ultimately his choice. Like I said in an earlier thread, I have a degree of understanding for a team owner wanting to keep the players from rocking the boat too much, there's a lot of money on the line.

But let it be known that I ain't the one calling for people to be fired over their opinions; that was President Trump, and all the self-proclaimed patriots who got offended over this in the first place.

Thats absolutely fantastic!

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
WWII Vet, 97, Takes A Knee To Support NFL Protests

I wonder if anyone has the guts to call this man un-American?

Unfortunately someone who does not correctly understand patriotism, is bound to do just that at some stage.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Why do I care about other human beings, the way they are treated, and the freedom of others to protest at their treatment by the state?

Well damn... If you have to ask that question, there are bigger problems than I can solve by answering it for you.

But if you must know, I have an interest here, because this species we are a part of is important to me, as are the individuals who comprise it. The idea that any one of them is existing in a state where they are under increased scrutiny or risk of arrest or even death, just because they belong to a specific demographic is of great concern to me. It also happens to be the case that there are people I care about personally living in the United States, and I am greatly concerned that they are living in a country whose authorities are not in any way capable of self management, even at the street level.

I expect national governments to be little more than collections of filth, but the idea that police agencies are permitted to continue to employ people who simply should not be on the job at all, is very worrying indeed, in a far more immediate sense than is the idea that central governance is failing massively.